The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Guest]

8 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

 FBI translator Sibel Edmonds also discovered documents about Bin Laden's involvement with the CIA, before and after 9/11.

I like her work a lot. Hasn’t she taken a break from commentating on geopolitics as her husband is ill? I do wish we had a pinned post on 9/11 and Iraq in the main forum. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Douglas Caddy said:

Jordan Peterson reminds me of Lyndon LaRouche. Both give the appearance of having the Truth and will not tolerate criticism. It would prove difficult to have a conversation with them.  Good ideas they might have are undermined by their dominating demeanor. 

I think he probably tolerates more criticism than just about anyone out there. Its must be borderline unbearable. He has been asked if he would enter into politics and he expressed that he wouldn’t, as its a very unpleasant business. The style of interviewing today isn’t honest, its to attack, to cheapen the opinions of others or catch them out, just to look for one sound-byte to spin. That style has no place in intellectual debate, yet its commonplace. If you listen to his podcast, you see anything but domineering. 
 

Another aspect we may well consider is; western societies are sorted into two very polarised tribes, emotions and senses are attacked every day with media which agitates. If you’re a conservative you are never going to reach the neo-liberals and vice-versa. You’ll always be cast as a pariah. How might he reach you with is rather classic, stoic, individualist views, Doug? The answer is probably that he wouldn’t, regardless of his demeanour, approach etc. As the way you position yourself politically is a big part of your life. This isn’t specific to you, its a general observation. I’ll send you a couple of podcasts where you’ll see a different side, if it indeed interests you on any level. 

 

 

Fundamentally, he is driven by compassion, like many of you are here. He just thinks the route to a better society and more fulfilled people is different in some respects. Different from what us being projected in the MSM. 

 

 

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Matthew Koch said:

Chris, I highly recommend the Biblical series it's built upon Jung's idea that archetypal stories are ingrained in our psyche. It's even better than his lectures on archetypal stories in cartoons and movies.

Although I haven’t had the inclination to get into these (just too much to read and listen to, the garden of eden and pinnochio breakdowns are fascinating. I am a big fan of Jung and these archetypes are certainly in the psyche. I have read a couple of books on screenwriting and writing good screenplays has a massive component which is exactly this. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Well, John. Personality wise,  I also see Peterson as an agent of repressed anger just as Mate. He does remind me of a sort rigid religious mentality I was brought up with as a Catholic, and although I went to public school and Catechism, I later found it much more pronounced  in friendships I later developed in high school, from kids, who had come from Catholic School.

 

I see some of his stated intentions are good. To answer Chris, in my life I don't see the need for self improvement ever has gone out of style. Though it's true, really boning up on religious, philosophical ideas and to a similar extent, self improvement books and seminars are  largely a thing of my past, though I very much applaud everybody going through similar phases I went through in self discovery and self improvement.

I feel like I could be walking on eggshells as I want to respect areas that go into the realm of religion. And i want to be sensitive as nobody has specifically opined on my question.

Peterson, in a lot of his talks,  seems to be big on reason. As I say. I don't think he's charlatan. He is sincere, and very intelligent, though I find him at times, darkly ponderous, honestly.. But I think anybody who sets himself up to presume after a long, deliberative process, he can prove or even disprove Christ's Resurrection is delusional. Even making such a boast and assuming such powers of thought is to me, rather dangerous to his followers. That's all I have to say about that.

Thanks, Kirk. Regarding darkly ponderous. I think through so many interviews he gets attacked from the same standpoint and using a similar tactic. Which produces a very similar result, which isn’t all that edifying for the viewer. He has openly expressed that he doesn’t like the conflict or exposure but, that he deems it necessary. He is willing to die on his sword for it. He has been through much despair in his own personal life, not least his wife, daughter’s health. And his own battle with a genetic disposition to manic depression. The huge following is due to a society suffering greatly from mental health issues, an epidemic of it and he is a guy who to some degree has been though his share of suffering, and he knows how to put people back together as a clinical psychologist. I know his following is cast as right-wing fanatics but, my own experience is its mostly guys trying to put their life back together, fix relationships, make themselves better people. We have a very dysfunctional society, a lot of trauma out there and people need some help fixing that. I can’t tell you how many of my friends and even some close family that have put themselves on a better track just by reading his book or listening to his lectures. Is he perfect, no, none of us are. I rarely share much about myself here, mainly because it can be a combative environment, but, I’ll share a bit about myself and the profound impact that Peterson has had on me. What he has done is bridged the gap between psychology and the average person, explaining principles in a relatable way. At college I found psychology a total bore, studying fish behaviour wasn’t for me. As a mature adult he has been the conduit that has helped me understand people like Nietzsche, Jung, Kierkegaard and got me reading a lot of philosophy. Ultimately his knowledge takes you to a lot of the classics. I am very resilient, resistant to stress very stoic by nature, as a result of parenting but, a lot of the people in my life aren’t and what he (Peterson) has enabled me to do is; fix multiple people around me, because I was furnished with a road map to do it. Thats included getting people off anti-depressants, healing their relationships with loved ones, helping them see themselves and the world differently. It’s quite the most rewarding thing assisting people whose lives were going downhill, or who were unable to shake trauma. For that, I owe a great debt of gratitude to Peterson. In my opinion; he is a good guy. I am not a groups or defender of his virtues, if some don’t see it, I am ok with it. My own thoughts on why he is so maligned in MSM is because he is directly challenging the status quo at this moment, which is breaking down a culture and pushing us toward technocracy and a very different type of society which IMHO won’t be better for us, it’ll be more controlling and less equal. Most of us here desire something more equal. 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, John Cotter said:

I agree with what some of Jordan Peterson says and I appreciate very much his speaking out in recent years against the covid regime.

Gabor Maté’s criticism of Peterson in one respect in the short video linked below make a lot of sense to me and may in fact touch on a fundamental flaw in Peterson’s overall world view. I largely agree with the comment beneath the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOJ0lUSBI14

I would like to see Maté and Peterson have a long form discussion. I respect Maté, he is very bright, I have listened to a lot of his stuff, “scattered minds” is very interesting, though I am somewhere between him and Thom Hartmann on the topic of ADHD, which is another fascinating debate. 
 

Listening to that clip and his interpretation of Peterson; I think we see tremendous frustration in Peterson, because he can see the end of the west, and feels to a degree that he has Cassandra’s curse. He has explained in detail what happened in the lead up to WW2, how states fell into communism and fascism, which all amount to tyranny. If you could see all of the conditions in place for that to happen again and nobody was listening, just proceeding with abandoning democratic fundamentals like free speech and the rights of the individual, then I think at some stage frustration could veer on range. Peterson is emotional, its what makes him human and relatable. We are in a time when the spirit of men is being crushed, they have an identity crisis, they don’t have a purpose, suicides and addiction is off the scale and he can see an opposition pouring fuel on that fire every day. He is rallying against that, at a time when every man is being cast as a Harvey Weinstein or worse. He is entitled to frustration toward all of these people who resent or hate humanity, and dress it up as compassion. We do see a lot of that today. 
 

As for children, he has written in great detail about infants and states that if you don’t get things right at a very young age, say 3-7, then you end up with a dysfunctional of malevolent adult. He has called them litter monsters and pointed out that you see all of that in children's play groups, including tyrants, bullies etc. His mantra is that you need to fix that very early if you want a well put together adult by 18 years of age. He does call them little monsters, Maté shouldn’t mischaracterise that as an ill feeling toward children or a rage. I don’t know Peterson’s children personally but, he has two and they seem very well put together, and also very loved. I am not sure there are any grounds for this particular line with Maté. Peterson has done hundreds of hours observing child behaviour, if not more. I understand where Maté is coming from, as his view is all about trauma and healing it. He thinks Peterson is somehow causing trauma but, is that a misunderstanding. You could argue that any time you ask a child to do something that they don’t want to do, this could cause trauma. We could never ask a child to do something that they don’t want to do and see what the outcome is? We can see it everywhere in the world. It isn’t good. 
I think this opens up a wider conversation as to whether classical (Pavlov) and operant conditioning (Skinner) should be used? I can certainly see it misused, certainly in compulsory schooling and the workplace where a punishment vs reward system is implemented subtly all the time. 
 

Maté here rightly points out that religion, as well as that radical left today is also underpinned by collectivism. The ideology that took us into religious persecution, nationalism, fascism, communism and all kinds of totalitarian horrors. Is Maté making a simplistic argument here? I’ll explain why I think its misunderstood. I interpret Peterson is suggesting the best outcome is when there is balance between the individuals rights and the group. If we skew either way, the outcome isn’t good at all. Peterson is espousing that the 10 commandments of Judaeo Christian values have played a huge part in achieving civilisation, good conditions for us to live in. Religion is largely responsible for the set of rules that underpins our legal frameworks. My interpretation is that despite the way that religion has been used malevolently, it will be better to have it as a foundation in society, than in a society without it, where there is then a spiritual void that causes a society to look to big government as their guiding force. Nietzsche more or less predicted the disasters of the twentieth century with what he called the “death of god.” Society abandoned belief, the Prussian style education system taught obedience and conformity, and the spiritual void was filled by dictators and despots. The more I read of psychology, the more I see how vulnerable the human mind is, and how group behaviour works. I had a catholic education, I am not religious or god believing. I am open minded and very much an individual in my thinking. At seems to me at this juncture that it may be a case of better the devil you know regarding faith. As the future as it looks right now without the 10 commandments takes us to Huxley, followed by Orwell. I think Maté potentially misunderstands Peterson when he does his biblical allegorical interpretations. If anything it shows how clever the writing was. Maté of course is no stranger to tyranny but, who understands it better and how it comes about? Collectivism is the mechanism, when we diminish the rights of the individual, you set in place the conditions for some of the worst things that humankind has seen. 
 

I have mentioned that I like Maté and respect him but, he eludes that Peterson is indulging in conspiracy theories here. Peterson has worked in academia, he has seen first hand how the social sciences have been corrupted. Is that a conspiracy theory? Is it strange that one generation thinks completely differently to the next? Is that accidental or a convergence of many variables? Or is academia/schooling responsible? I’ll make a point; it wasn’t the poopoo’s who organised and ordered the burning of books, it was the students. 

In conclusion, Maté may be right about repressed range on some level, but, I think he is missing a trick here on the way be are headed and what is happening before his eyes. IMHO Peterson is desperate to avoid a catastrophe for humanity, and is speaking up. 
 

Cheers

Chris

PS I haven’t read this back, you’ll all have to live with the typos and grammatical errors. Short of time today. 

[Douglas Caddy]

 

 

Russian Losses In Ukraine Soared To 480 In Just One Day, According To Kyiv (msn.com)

[Matthew Koch]

5 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

Although I haven’t had the inclination to get into these (just too much to read and listen to, the garden of eden and pinnochio breakdowns are fascinating. I am a big fan of Jung and these archetypes are certainly in the psyche. I have read a couple of books on screenwriting and writing good screenplays has a massive component which is exactly this. 

Give this a watch, Peterson explains that the Bible is the precondition for the manifestation for truth. He's right, it was the archetype & foundation of "Western Society". It's decline has correlated exactly with the decline in attendance at church. Jim Douglas is one of the few authors that get this part of JFK right his love of humanity comes from this. This is a conspiracy forum so I would recommend for further reading about how this happened and how we got to where we are now; 'Infiltration' by Taylor Marshall..

 https://www.amazon.com/Infiltration-Plot-Destroy-Church-Within/dp/1622828461/ref=sr_1_1?crid=250D6ICT5497G&keywords=infiltration+taylor+marshall&qid=1666883246&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIxLjgyIiwicXNhIjoiMS4zMyIsInFzcCI6IjEuNDUifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=Infiltrat%2Caps%2C207&sr=8-1
Marshall gets into the infiltration of the Catholic Church first by Freemasons and later by KGB and CIA agents (Remember David Ferrie wanted to be a Priest but got in too much trouble) I believe we have been purposefully lead off the narrow path by the same people who lead our foreign policy astray.. 

 

 

[Matthew Koch]

1 hour ago, Douglas Caddy said:

Russian Losses In Ukraine Soared To 480 In Just One Day, According To Kyiv (msn.com)

Kinda reminds me of rosey reports from Saigon.. 
 

[Douglas Caddy]

Russia’s oil power ‘will never return,’ the IEA says. ‘The rupture has come with a speed that few imagined possible’ (msn.com)

[Douglas Caddy]

Hopefully this link will work. It is a one mind-bending report after another of the disaster of Russia in the Ukraine war.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-situation-report-just-13-of-russia-s-iskander-ballistic-missiles-left-kyiv-s-intel-chief-claims/ar-AA13q5R8?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=67a622a01cbb49e2a1070228ed8bb978&fbclid=IwAR32DezNFpExuFF76

[W. Niederhut]

Putin's Latest Speech In a Nutshell

Here's my brief summary of this morning's WaPo article.

1) Russia is not at war with the "traditional West"-- only with the "cosmopolitan West."

2) Russia reserves the right to steal any Ukrainian stuff in the recently annexed territories.

3) Russia will not use nukes, but the Ukrainians may nuke themselves with a dirty bomb.

4) Russia may destroy satellites operated by the non-traditional West.

Edited October 27, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Matt Allison]

About what I'd expect from an ex-KGB toad that worships Stalin.

[Douglas Caddy]

[Steve Thomas]

Michigan GOP gubernatorial nominee invoked conspiracy claiming Democrats sought to ‘topple’ US in retaliation for losing Civil War

By Em Steck and Olivia Alafriz, October 27, 2022

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/27/politics/kfile-tudor-dixon-conspiracy-democrats-topple-america/index.html

 

“The Republican gubernatorial nominee in Michigan invoked a conspiracy that the Covid-19 pandemic and protests in the summer of 2020 after the killing of George Floyd were part of a decades-long plan by the Democratic Party to “topple” the United States as retaliation for losing the US Civil War, adding that the party wanted to enslave people “again.”

Tudor Dixon, a former TV news anchor, made the remarks on the far-right streaming news network Real America’s Voice, which hosts former Trump adviser Steve Bannon’s show, in late June 2020.

“The country today is divided, and this was the plan. It’s been in the works for years. The idea that you can topple the greatest country in the world. But to topple a country like the United States of America, you must be planning this for decades,” said Dixon. “Why wouldn’t that come from the party that lost the Civil War? The party that wanted to own people because they viewed them as less than human? Do you think that the Democrats are over losing to the north?””

 

This ranks right up there with the Jewish Space Lasers causing the California wildfires lady.

Steve Thomas

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said:

Michigan GOP gubernatorial nominee invoked conspiracy claiming Democrats sought to ‘topple’ US in retaliation for losing Civil War

By Em Steck and Olivia Alafriz, October 27, 2022

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/27/politics/kfile-tudor-dixon-conspiracy-democrats-topple-america/index.html

 

“The Republican gubernatorial nominee in Michigan invoked a conspiracy that the Covid-19 pandemic and protests in the summer of 2020 after the killing of George Floyd were part of a decades-long plan by the Democratic Party to “topple” the United States as retaliation for losing the US Civil War, adding that the party wanted to enslave people “again.”

Tudor Dixon, a former TV news anchor, made the remarks on the far-right streaming news network Real America’s Voice, which hosts former Trump adviser Steve Bannon’s show, in late June 2020.

“The country today is divided, and this was the plan. It’s been in the works for years. The idea that you can topple the greatest country in the world. But to topple a country like the United States of America, you must be planning this for decades,” said Dixon. “Why wouldn’t that come from the party that lost the Civil War? The party that wanted to own people because they viewed them as less than human? Do you think that the Democrats are over losing to the north?””

 

This ranks right up there with the Jewish Space Lasers causing the California wildfires lady.

Steve Thomas

 

      Yes, this has been a bizarre, popular trope with Trumplicons who haven't studied enough American history to realize that the former Dixiecrats crossed over to the Republican Party en masse after the passage of the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act in the 1960s.

      I'm old enough to remember when people in Texas would vote for a yellow dog if it was a Democrat.