Was it really just a MOLE HUNT about "Oswald?"

[Jeremy Bojczuk]

Robert Charles-Dunne writes:

Quote

You [Jim Hargrove] don't want to stay on the topic of Stripling, because you cannot answer the questions asked.  Which is why you rush along to other anomalies, without explaining the ones that surround Stripling.

It makes you wonder exactly who it is that Jim hopes to convert by repeatedly trying to change the subject. Perhaps there are people reading this who are thinking to themselves, "Hmm, every time this Hargrove guy gets asked awkward questions, he tries to change the subject. Maybe there's something to this 'Harvey and Lee' stuff after all!"

It's ironic that he's now trying to switch away from Stripling, given that the subject of Stripling was introduced by Jim himself when challenged earlier in this thread to justify his claim that the FBI had "altered a document or two" to conceal evidence that a mastoidectomy operation had been performed on doppelganger A instead of on doppelganger B, as Armstrong had argued.

Would Jim prefer to return to the topic of the mastoidectomy evidence? You know, the existence of a mastoidectomy defect on the body in Oswald's grave, as mentioned in a report by several respectable scientists, that contradicts a central part of Armstrong's theory. Does Jim really want to continue that particular discussion?

[Jeremy Bojczuk]

Mark Stevens writes:

Quote

Are we going to ignore the fact that Kudlaty himself has cast reasonable suspicion on the entire Stripling story? He himself states the records he gave over to the FBI may in fact have been his elementary school records and that Armstrong may already have them.

Greg Parker has something to say about this. In particular, he asks why the FBI would want to seize and destroy elementary school records, copies of which existed elsewhere, and which in any case do not contradict the fanciful notion of a 'Harvey and Lee' long-term top-secret doppelganger scheme.

For details, see:

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t2215p25-fao-mark-stevens#33795

[Sandy Larsen]

On 7/6/2020 at 9:38 AM, Robert Charles-Dunne said:

Sandy thinks it unwise to use any of the 6 witnesses, but allows that some ring more true than others.

 

I didn't say that.

Here's what I believe:

Kudlaty's testimony provides strong evidence for a LHO at Stripling. The others' testimonies alone don't. But they do strengthen Kudlaty's testimony by corroborating it.

The strength of Fran's testimony lies between Kudlaty's and the others'.

If all I had was the non-Kudlaty testimonies, I wouldn't use it.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

6 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

Mark Stevens writes:

Greg Parker has something to say about this. In particular, he asks why the FBI would want to seize and destroy elementary school records, copies of which existed elsewhere, and which in any case do not contradict the fanciful notion of a 'Harvey and Lee' long-term top-secret doppelganger scheme.

For details, see:

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t2215p25-fao-mark-stevens#33795

 

What makes you and Greg Parker think that -- according to Kudlaty's account -- the FBI wanted to seize and destroy LHO's elementary school records?

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Sandy Larsen

[Jim Hargrove]

Oh, brother!  The H&L critics will try ANYTHING to  hide from the overwhelming evidence that LHO attended Stripling School.

Frank Kudlaty made it abundantly clear in the opening minute of his interview with John A. that he looked at LHO’s records for Stripling Junior High School and noted that his attendance at Stripling School (not a previous elementary school) was less than a full year.

click here for 1997 interview with Frank Kudlaty

 

Let’s take yet another look at the evidence the H&L critics can’t make go away.

First, of course, is the proof that the two LHOs attended two different schools just one year before the Stripling School attendance.

Because both the FBI and the Warren Commission missed this detail and neglected to cover it up, school records published in the Warren volumes show that both LHOs attended a full fall 1953 school semester in New York City and New Orleans simultaneously.

In the fall semester of 1953, one LHO attended Public School 44 in the Bronx borough of New York City, where he was present for 62 full days and 5 half days, was absent 3 full days and 8 half days, for a total accounting of 78 days.

Also in the fall semester of 1953, the other LHO was present at Beauregard Junior High School in New Orleans for 89 school days.

One year later, one LHO attended Beauregard School in New Orleans while the other was indeed enrolled in Stripling School in Fort Worth.

It was, and remains, common knowledge among local Stripling School district residents and current and former students and teachers that Lee Harvey Oswald attended Stripling School in the 1950s.

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram confirmed this simple fact in an article published in 2017 and updated in 2019.

Once again, 

This 1959 Fort Worth Star-Telegram article indicates LHO attended Stripling.

This 1962 Fort Worth Star-Telegram article indicates LHO attended Stripling.

Published two days after the assassination of JFK, this Fort Worth Star-Telegram article reported: “He attended Stripling Junior High School and Arlington Heights High School before joining the Marines.”

In his 1964 Warren Commission testimony, Robert Oswald said that LHO attended Stripling School.

This May 11, 2002 Fort Worth Star-Telegram article indicated that “a boy walked to Stripling from a home nearby.  His mother was living in a home behind the school on Thomas Place by 1963, when the world learned the name Lee Harvey Oswald.”

And then, of course, there is the Fort Worth Star-Telegram article from 2017 mentioned above.

Way back on December 27, 1993, John Armstrong wrote to Ricardo Galindo, the then current principal of Stripling School, asking if there were any records for Lee Harvey Oswald's attendance the school.  Mr. Galindo telephoned John back and said that, although there were no records, it was “common knowledge” that LHO had attended the school. [Harvey and Lee, p. 97]

In this 1997 interview, Stripling Student Fran Schubert watched LHO walk from the school to his house at 2220 Thomas Place just across the street from the school.

And, of course, in a 1997 interview, the assistant principal of Stripling School described how he met two FBI agents at Stripling less than 24 hours after the assassination and gave them the records for LHO.  Mr. Stevens can only say that Frank Kudlaty, who went on to become the Superintendent of Schools for Waco, Texas, was mistaken (about his entire story of meeting FBI agents hours after the assassination???) or lying.

[Mark Stevens]

29 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Oh, brother!  The H&L critics will try ANYTHING to  hide from the overwhelming evidence that LHO attended Stripling School.

Frank Kudlaty made it abundantly clear in the opening minute of his interview with John A. that he looked at LHO’s records for Stripling Junior High School and noted that his attendance at Stripling School (not a previous elementary school) was less than a full year.

 

And, of course, in a 1997 interview, the assistant principal of Stripling School described how he met two FBI agents at Stripling less than 24 hours after the assassination and gave them the records for LHO.  Mr. Stevens can only say that Frank Kudlaty, who went on to become the Superintendent of Schools for Waco, Texas, was mistaken (about his entire story of meeting FBI agents hours after the assassination???) or lying.

Hargrove enters, as if on cue and does the exact thing I said he would do.

Not only did he attempt to rationalize away Kudlaty's statement without providing any actual evidence, or bothering to actually comment on the actual statement,  but also added his patented "Mr. Stevens is saying something he isn't actually saying"  bit. When, in all actuality I've stated, I believe now numerous times, that I believe Kudlaty, and at this point I think I believe his story 100%. 

So while Jim can state 

Quote

he looked at LHO’s records for Stripling Junior High School and noted that his attendance at Stripling School (not a previous elementary school) was less than a full year.

The actual fact is that Kudlaty said no such thing. He actually stated he didn't know what years the records were for, what grades the records were for, or what school. What Kudlaty stated was that there was a record, that was it.

Deny it with an articulated conclusion.

[Sandy Larsen]

5 minutes ago, Mark Stevens said:

So while Jim can state 

Quote

he looked at LHO’s records for Stripling Junior High School and noted that his attendance at Stripling School (not a previous elementary school) was less than a full year.

The actual fact is that Kudlaty said no such thing. He actually stated he didn't know what years the records were for, what grades the records were for, or what school. What Kudlaty stated was that there was a record, that was it.

 

You must have listened to a different interview from what the rest of us heard.

 

[Mark Stevens]

14 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

You must have listened to a different interview from what the rest of us heard.

 

lollerskates!!!!!!!!

Aren't you the one who stated you weren't familiar with all of the H&L evidence?

Quote

 

Robert,

I'm not an H&L expert. Jim Hargrove may have answers to those questions.

 

You did state this, in regards to questions about Kudlaty and Galindo.

Maybe you should spend more time familiarizing yourself with the evidence instead of relying on other's interpretation of it.

For instance, in the video you have of Kudlaty (Youtube), scroll to 1:41 and see if he says what I stated, or if it's from a different video.

He then further explains that his statement is based on his knowledge of the procedure when a child completed elementary it was procedure to forward his records over to the next school.

I await the next articulated conclusion.

[Sandy Larsen]

24 minutes ago, Mark Stevens said:

Maybe you should spend more time familiarizing yourself with the evidence instead of relying on other's interpretation of it.

 

Jim said: ....[Kudlaty] looked at LHO’s records for Stripling Junior High School and noted that his attendance at Stripling School (not a previous elementary school) was less than a full year.

You replied: The actual fact is that Kudlaty said no such thing.

I said: You must have listened to a different interview from what the rest of us heard.

 

The reason I said that is because what Jim said is 100% correct. Kudlaty DID say he glanced at LHO's Stripling records and noticed that Oswald did not attend a full year.

Kudlaty also said that some elementary school records may also have been present in the package he handed over to the FBI, because 6th grade records would have been passed on to a junior high school. But somehow in your mind you have it that only the elementary records were in the packet.

 

[Jim Hargrove]

Thanks for setting the record straight, Sandy.

John Armstrong’s new write-up on the Marine Corps and the “defection” is about finished and should go public tomorrow.  Anyone interested can see the pre-publication version here:

    https://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Marines-NEW.html

As soon as he finishes his big anniversary program this week, Len Osanic will be interviewing John on this new material for what will probably be two episodes of Black Ops Radio.
 

[David Josephs]

On 7/8/2020 at 12:08 PM, Mark Stevens said:

lollerskates!!!!!!!!

Aren't you the one who stated you weren't familiar with all of the H&L evidence?

Mr. Stevens.....   how familiar are you with the data?

Curious mostly...  you've read the book, seen the notebooks at Baylor and been thru the CD?

If not, no worries....  again, I'm curious as to where you get your opinions and the data from which you derive them...

Sorry for not rereading the entire thread...  I may know more about H&L across the entire spectrum than anyone other than John Armstrong himself.  All due respect to Jim Hargrove who admins the H&L website....  You may have read some of my posts here on the subject.  I've taken topics JA introduced in the book much further down the road, which was his hope all along.

I spent 2 years talking thru the entire book with John a number of years back and we've helped each other on numerous projects....

The purpose of John's book was 2-fold....  1 - it was a place to start from where a researcher could continue down a chosen path or all the paths as I have...
and 2 - to take on the totality of the evidence.

Topics like Oswald at Stripling deserves this kind of discussion... what I don't see you asking is why it's important at all that in the fall of 1954 Oswald is in Fort Worth
when the WCR tells us he was living with Myrtle Evans at 1454 St. Mary's in New Orleans attending Beauregard in the 9th grade.

I am now going to attempt to piece together for you the anomalies surrounding the fall of 1954. 

 In May 1953 NYC Oswald was finishing 7th grade.
September 1953 he enters 8th grade at PS44 (Manhattan, Bronx or Staten Island?) and gets the progress report mentioned by Carro from the call with Marge.

 

Harvey is placed in YOUTH HOUSE during April/May 1953... this school record has been doctored... from March 1953 to June 1953 there are not 109+15 days of school to attend or miss..   Another story for another time - what we see above is a combined record of both Lee and Harvey

This is dated just after he returns back to school after Youth House....  he entered April 21... but please notice he is returning to "PS 117 Jr H"
just under the name CLAVERIE

We also see the same 2 addresses as the NYC perm record...  but no mention of PS 44....

 

Which ultimately leads to conflicts:

J. CARRO was involved with Oswald in NYC as his parole officer... kinda. 
Lee cannot be entering 8th and 9th grade at the same time...
PS 44 is in the Bronx and there's one on the west side of Manhattan... Robert Oswald wrote he started 8th grade in  Sept 1953 at PS 44 on Columbus & 76th.
on the west side of Manhattan...10 days before the 9/24 court date and call from Marge below...  

 

In January 1954 Marge and Ozzie move back to New Orleans and in with Marge's sister Lillian Murret.  And this is where I have a difference of interpretation from John/Jim...

I do not see the Beauregard cumulative record as evidence he attended BJHS in the fall of 1953... He very well may have... as The Beauregard records have many, many other conflicts and problems which stand on their own (grade cards do not match the info on the perm record - do a search and I'm sure you'll find my posts on the subject).  Other evidence is available for the Fall of 1953 for a Harvey Oswald and nurse mother living on Exchange and his attending 8th grade at BJHS.  For now though let's start with Jan 1954...

March 1954:  Myra DaRouse takes HARVEY TO MONTE LEPRE CLINIC AND THEN home to 126 Exchange after piano falls on him

Here we have a letter, below, from Mother to J Edward Pic... June 14 1954 New Orleans 
Return address 1454 St. Mary's is Myrtle Evan's place...  they had returned from NYC in January and lived with Lillian thru February 1954 when they moved to Myrtles
and remained there until August 1954 when they supposedly moved to Exchange Place

Mr. JENNER - Do you know how it was that she went to live at 126 Exchange Place in New Orleans?
Mrs. MURRET - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - Was that 1954 or 1955?
Mrs. MURRET - I don't know--whatever you have down there probably is the right year, but they lived at Myrtle's house first.

 

So here we are in June 1954... they should be at Myrtle's

 

Mr. JENNER - How long did they stay at your house?
Mrs. MURRET - At my house?
Mr. JENNER - Yes.
Mrs. MURRET - Well, like I said, 2 weeks or 3 weeks at the most, somewhere in there.
Mr. JENNER - And you are pretty sure that they moved directly from your house into this place on Exchange Alley?
Mrs. MURRET - Well, either there or to Myrtle's apartment. I don't know which, to be truthful with you.

Well... they didn't move from Lillian to Exchange but to Myrtle's

Mr. JENNER - You did see Lee after they returned from New York?
Mrs. EVANS - Oh, yes; they lived at my house for, oh, I guess about 6 months.
Mr. JENNER - Including Lee?
Mrs. EVANS - Oh, yes.

We have a photo from 1954 of Marge Oswald at Exchange Place... we also have a 1956 photo of Marge from Exchange Place yet they hardly appear like the same person.  Her own sister was amazed and Mr. Murret had the exact same comments about her....  in the spring of 1954 Harvey attended BJHS and was even taken back to Exchange by Myra DaRouse... HARVEY.

But in terms of the Fall 1953/54 school year semester Lee is in NYC while Harvey/Marge are in New Orleans at Exchange Place

 

 

Stripling attendance is assumed to be Sept-Oct 1954 while Lee Oswald attends BJHS in New Orleans...  please read the WCR note inset below

 

 

"BJHS in 1954" then jumps to Sept 1955.  Evidence shows him at BJHS in Louisiana from Jan 54 thru June 55...  quite a lot of evidence in fact.

"1954"... well a school year is either 9/53-6/54, or 9/54-6/55...we know Lee starts at BJHS in January 1954
With the WCR question seemingly skipping his 9th grade year (remember 9th grade from above?) and going straight to 10th at Warren Easton thru Oct 1955.

In the summer of 1955 Lee starts work at Tujagues import/export and works all thru 10th grade - he drops out of 10th in Oct 1955
Summer of 1956 they move to 3830 W 6th #3 in Ft Worth - this is LEE and mother

The note asks for school data for Louisiana, not Fort Worth.  The 1954-55 school year was entirely in Louisiana yet
it appears the question does not know this...

H&L via Kudlaty say September - October 1954 at Stripling  ...and it appears we also have him attending only Sept-Oct 1955 at Easton...

yet another item of evidence which shows Oswald in school in Louisiana and dropping out Oct 1955.

He appears to have also been at Arlington only from 9/5 - 9/28 1956.

3 schools 3 years in a row during the same months our man Oswald barely makes it 6 weeks... or 2 schools and our discussion about 1954.

The WCR question projects ignorance of the BJHS 54/55 school year despite all the evidence...  Grade cards all marked "session 1954 - 1955"

 

 

Why is it - do you suppose Mark, that the WCR steered clear of the 54-55 school year?

Why is it we see the same pattern for 1955 and 1956 where the boy starts school yet leaves before the end of October?
Why would Kudlaty lie?  This certainly doesn't "make" the book... it is simply another brick in the wall....

Well, maybe this is why he is telling us the truth...   the grade cards from 54-55 at BJHS do not match the perm record on which these grade cards are recorded
12 absences does not match any of them... even the grades are off...  

Just seems there is much more to the 54-55 school year than Kudlaty telling us what he did....

 

 

While I do appreciate these deep dives into the molecular composition of the brick...  you gotta step back a bit - and every once in a while - to see the wall before you.

I look forward to your reply
DJ

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by David Josephs
people aint gonna learn what they dont wanna know

[Jim Hargrove]

Hi, David,

Good to see you posting again!

I’ve waited more than 24 hours to respond to your note hoping that Mark Stevens, or Jeremy Bojczuk, or RCD, or any other H&L critic would DARE to respond, but every one of them appears to have run away.  My bet is that ALL of them simply HATE looking at Real Evidence®, speaking of which....

Gil Jesus put together a marvelous three minute collection of Mark Lane interviews with Dealey Plaza witnesses showing how the FBI lied about their observations.

Short and bittersweet:

RIP, Mark Lane

 

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

On 7/7/2020 at 5:35 PM, Robert Charles-Dunne said:

On 7/6/2020 at 7:24 PM, Robert Charles-Dunne said:

Try answering a damn question.

So, still no answers.   Just more of the same irrelevant rubbish.

You don't want to stay on the topic of Stripling, because you cannot answer the questions asked.  Which is why you rush along to other anomalies, without explaining the ones that surround Stripling.

No amount of pretending that you have already answered outstanding questions will fool the people who read this.

For a crack squad anxious to take on all comers, you sure  all avoid the questions posed.

Why?

DJ's massive data dump is not designed to answer any of the questions already posed, but left embarrassingly unanswered.

It is to flood the board with irrelevance, dressed up as answers.  Then Jim - who invites discussions of the topic of Stripling and then runs away from the questions he's solicited - can drop some cheap shot about how NOBODY can answer all THIS. 

Nobody asked about all that.  The topic was Stripling, and Jim has made it repeatedly clear over a dozen pages that he'd like to change the topic. 

Other H&L heavyweights then contributed by trying to get members here banned (because that's how men of higher learning and sharp debate skills comport themselves, right?), or deferred questions to the "expert" Jim Hargrove, who we now know from DJ is just the website guy, so he can't be expected to know everything.  And of course Sandy admitted - to his credit - that he wouldn't have relied upon many of the self-same "witnesses" that are central to the Stripling story.

DJ has distinguished the difference between the composition of the brick, and the wall.   Thanks for that.

If the wall is not part of Stripling school, it is irrelevant.

Why can you guys never stay on topic?

Why is it that no matter what the question, or how simple and direct, the response always requires the introduction of irrelevance, preferably by the Tom Scully ton?

When you learn to answer direct questions, such as I've posed - as have at least three others - I'll be here.  Until you're prepared to meet that obligation, this thread has been and will remain a disaster for H&L.  Your avoidance of questions you cannot answer makes you look small.  And H&L along with it. 

Well played, chaps!

 

[Jim Hargrove]

1 hour ago, Robert Charles-Dunne said:

When you learn to answer direct questions, such as I've posed - as have at least three others - I'll be here.  Until you're prepared to meet that obligation, this thread has been and will remain a disaster for H&L.  Your avoidance of questions you cannot answer makes you look small.  And H&L along with it. 

RCD AGAIN FORGETS that in recent days I have answered his questions directly in THIS POST, and in THIS POST, and in THIS POST, and in THIS POST, among others.  But scolding me for not answering questions appears to be a talking point among the anti-H&L people, who wish to talk about ANYTHING other than the EVIDENCE.  The real disaster in this thread is the total inability of the H&L critics to make any of the Stripling evidence go away.  And so they create distractions, like the false claim that I haven't answered their questions.

I have answered RCD's questions, most recently, in THIS POST, and in THIS POST, and in THIS POST, and in THIS POST, among others.  RCD has not responded to or even acknowledged any of this.  He just keeps repeating and repeating the false claim.

 

The H&L critics claim that the Stripling assistant principal Frank Kudlaty, who said he gave LHO’s Stripling records to the FBI hours after the assassination, was either lying or profoundly mistaken.

The critics claim that Robert Oswald was just guessing that LHO attended Stripling when he told the Fort Worth Star Telegram in 1959 and again in 1962 that LHO attended Stripling school a year or so before entering the Marine Corps.  The H&L critics ignore the fact that in 1956 Robert, Marguerite, and LHO lived at 4936 Collinwood in Fort Worth, just ten blocks or so from Stripling School, when Robert and LHO undoubtedly compared notes about their Stripling attendance experiences (Robert in 1948, LHO in 1954).  Robert certainly wasn’t guessing about LHO’s Stripling attendance.

The H&L critics claim that the Star-Telegram article published two days after the assassination was wrong when it stated LHO attended Stripling.  Ditto for the Star Telegram stories of 2002 and 2017, both of which said LHO attended Stripling.

They claim Stripling student Fran Schubert was wrong in her clear memory that she watched LHO walk the short distance home from the school to 2220 Thomas Place, just across the street from Stripling, where Marguerite lived on several occasions, including when JFK was killed.

They claim to not understand what Stripling principal Ricardo Galindo meant when he told John Armstrong that it was “common knowledge” that LHO attended Stripling.

They ignore Marguerite’s statement in the 11/15/59 Star-Telegram that LHO “quit school at 14 …. he quit in the eighth grade ….. but was so set on getting an education, he quit and returned three times,” and apparently want people to think this matches the Official Record without Stripling School.

They ignore the evidence, claiming it is just a “distraction,” that just one year before Stripling the two LHOs attended school simultaneously in New York City and New Orleans.

The H&L critics cannot even CONSIDER ACCEPTING the clear evidence that LHO attended Stripling School because they know that, if they do, they have to accept there were two different young men sharing the identity of LHO, just as John Armstrong has shown again and again.  That is why the H&L critics are working so hard in their unsuccessful attempts to debunk the Stripling evidence.  If they accept it, they lose!

And they have already lost.

[James Norwood]

Jim,

Everything you wrote above is spot on.  And, by the way, why can't Charles-Dunne and the other naysayers even make a stab at answering the question raised by David Josephs: 

Why did the WCR steer clear of the 54-55 school year?

ANSWER: Charles-Dunn, Stevens, et al. haven't studied the evidence, and it's more fun for them to engage in harassment, as opposed to a civilized discussion.