Mark Stevens Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) This is only an examination of the Stripling eyewitness statements, or other statements and information which posits Lee Harvey Oswald (or Harvey Lee Oswald) attended Stripling Junior H.S. in 1954-1955 as claimed in "Harvey & Lee." For these purposes Lee Harvey Oswald/Harvey Lee Oswald is referred to as Oswald outside of other quoted references. It is hoped to determine whether the alleged witnesses claim knowledge of Oswald attending Stripling, as well as whether the witnesses corroborate each other and create a cohesive timeline which also matches the timeline of “Harvey & Lee.” I planned to include all the articles references in their entirety as a separate attachment, it is too large though. If you would like it or the transcripts to the interviews send me a PM. The first mention of Oswald attending Stripling in “Harvey & Lee”: Quote The 1st school Harvey returned to was Stripling Junior High in Fort Worth (1954) where he dropped out after two months. (Armstrong, March-June: Myra DaRouse and Harvey Oswald, 2003) Further, in “Harvey & Lee” it is claimed: Quote September-November, 1954: Harvey Oswald in Fort Worth When Myra DaRouse returned to Beauregard in the fall of 1954 she was not assigned a homeroom, and never again saw her friend and former homeroom student, Harvey Oswald. She didn't know that Harvey and the older, dumpy, heavy-set "Marguerite Oswald" imposter already left New Orleans and moved to Fort Worth. They moved into a small apartment at 2220 Thomas Place, and Harvey began attending 9th grade classes at W.C. Stripling Junior High-once again without transcripts from his previous school (Beauregard). The Warren Commission, either unaware of wanting to avoid Stripling, reported that "Lee Harvey Oswald" attended the 9th grade at Beauregard Junior High in New Orleans in the fall of 1954. (Armstrong, September-November, 1954: Harvey Oswald in Fort Worth, 2003) With these two passages we can fix the time period of Oswald’s claimed attendance at Stripling to be for the 9th grade year, 1954-1955, for which he is claimed to have attended from September-November of 1954. The following persons and their statements are examined to determine if their statements support the claim that Oswald attended Stripling in September-November of 1954: Robert Lee Oswald Frank Kudlaty Franzetta Schubert Mark Summers Douglass Gann Bobby/Bobbie Pitts Ricardo Galindo To the best of my knowledge, these persons and their statements and knowledge consist of the totality (Merriam-Webster Dictionary, n.d.) of the Harvey and Lee Stripling story. No other witnesses are, or ever have been offered or presented. Robert Lee Oswald The statements of Robert Oswald are often given extra consideration by “Harvey & Lee” supporters, and this is also true in the book. The fact that he is Oswald’s brother does increase the reliability of his firsthand knowledge. Due to Robert’s absence from the family upon joining the Marines in July 1952, he did have a considerable lack of firsthand knowledge of Oswald, and indeed little contact with him in these years. Quote Mr. JENNER. During that 3-year period, what contact did you have with the members of your family, and with particular reference, if you can give that first, with your brother Lee his writing you, you writing him? Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; we were corresponding infrequently, I would say--not very many letters between I and Lee direct when I was in the service, especially the first part of my tour in the service. In 1952, after traveling from Camp Pendleton, Calif., to Jacksonville, Fla. I did have a 10-day leave. They were in New York City at that time. Quote Mr. JENNER. This leads me to put this general question to you, Mr. Oswald. I take it that for some period of time in that area of time that is '58, '59, and perhaps even back of that-your contact with your mother was quite limited? Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; that is correct. Mr. JENNER. Over what period of time did that persist? Give us the broad picture first. Mr. OSWALD. I would say, sir, quite frankly that the original occurred prior to my joining the Marine Corps in 1952. Mr. JENNER. And persisted thereafter? Mr. OSWALD. Persisted thereafter that 1 saw her only very infrequently. (Warren Commission) This lack of firsthand knowledge is evident not only in his Warren Commission testimony but in later comments he made to reporters and other news organizations. This fact should be taken into consideration when considering the reliability of Robert Oswald’s statements regarding Stripling Robert first gave statements regarding Oswald and Stripling in 1959 when Oswald defected to the Soviet Union. Reporters eventually came seeking statements from the family regarding this shocking act. Robert’s statements would echo later statements he gave to the Warren Commission. The first instance I can find of Robert Oswald making statements referencing Oswald are in the Oct. 31st 1959 edition of The Fort Worth Star Telegram. (Fort Worth Star-Telegram, 1959) The Oct. 31st article referenced the fact that Robert Oswald gave these statements while at work doing his deliveries. A reporter caught him on the side of the road and asked him a series of questions regarding Oswald. The following day reporters went to Robert Oswald’s home and again interviewed him. In this article Robert Oswald makes the following statement regarding Oswald: (Fort Worth Star-Telegram, 1959) No mention of Stripling is mentioned in this article. At this point, it would appear that Robert Oswald did not repeat his earlier statement regarding Stripling. If he did not repeat the statement, it is possible this was because he knew his statement was in error. In any event, the statement was not repeated. There was apparently another article as well, in what seems to be a second version of some kind of the Sunday Edition of the Star Telegram. In this article the same exact statement is made: (Fort Worth Star-Telegram, 1959) Already, the Star Telegram has begun to recycle their reporting, a pattern which is repeated in regards to Stripling almost every time the Star Telegram mentions Oswald. Both articles include a photo purported to be Oswald. (Fort Worth Star-Telegram, 1959) (Fort Worth Star-Telegram, 1959) It has been claimed the Fort Worth photo was the worst photo published because Oswald lived in Fort Worth and it was necessary to deceive any potential persons who might recognize him and state “hey that doesn’t look like Oswald,” by substituting a fake or otherwise modified photo so as to make Oswald unrecognizable and cause one to state “hey that doesn’t look like Oswald.” This idea is demonstrably false by showing articles published in other newspapers, in other Texas cities: (The Kilgore News Herald, 1959) (El Paso Times, 1959) (The Corpus Christi Caller-Times, 1959) (Waxahachie Daily Light, 1959) Of the ones presented (all I could find in Texas, there very well may be more), it would appear as though the Fort Worth photos might actually be the best. It has also been claimed the photo below was the original from which these photos were based on: (Unsure where I got this photo or what the source is) It was actually this photo: (Unsure where I got this photo or what the source is other than AP, not sure where AP acquired the photo.) In the first photo, at the end it states “This is a retransmission of FW1 of Nov. 1 to provide better copy.” The second photo is the referenced “FW1.” (There is another photo which is the source of FW1) This is not meant to be an analysis of who is in the photos or the various qualities, etc…, just to show that there were other newspapers in Texas which carried the photo and that Fort Worth did not publish the worst quality picture(s) versus other papers in Texas, refuting other claims to the contrary. Back to the Stripling references in articles now… After the defection of Oswald, in many, if not most, of the articles from the Fort Worth Star-Telegram in which Oswald was mentioned, the same pattern of repetition of statements is made. Often with the exact same verbiage. With this and other clues from the articles in mind it is clear that each of these articles are simply recycling the same initial information regarding Stripling they received from Robert Oswald which appeared in their Oct. 31st, 1959 edition. (Fort Worth Star-Telegram, 1959) Examples of this include the following excerpts from their news stories over the years: (Fort Worth Star-Telegram, 1962) (Fort Worth Star-Telegram, 1963) (Fort Worth Star-Telegram, 1980) (Fort Worth Star-Telegram, 1999) (Fort Worth Star-Telegram, 1999) (Fort Worth Star-Telegram, 2006) The repetition is obvious, almost every article uses similar verbiage from the original article, or repeats other verbiage. There is no updated reporting throughout the years. Furthermore, besides the people mentioned later, there are no classmates who remember Oswald from Stripling. Curiously, not even a teacher at the time Oswald allegedly attended, who also did research on Oswald for another news publication: (Fort Worth Star-Telegram, 1992) I find it odd a teacher, who was able to recall other famous students, who taught at Stripling during his alleged attendance, and who also researched his family forgot to mention the alleged “common knowledge” of Oswald attending Stripling. The only reference to Stripling I have been able to find from another student, either in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram or elsewhere, is this statement: (The Los Angeles Times, 1963) This would be an obvious error, since Stripling had no fifth grade. The statement could also be interpreted as he knew him “elementary through junior high school at Stripling and then from Arlington.” I though intepret it as he knew him from being in 5th grade with him at Stripling and then from Arlington. After almost 60 years, the Star Telegram has not presented a single statement from any person other than Robert Oswald which would link Oswald to Stripling, in any year, much less the years as alleged by “Harvey & Lee.” Numerous opportunities have been presented, not the least of which was a teacher who taught durring the same time period and who also researched Oswald. She would have been in a prime, if not the most prime, position among Stripling witnesses of knowledge of Oswald at Stripling, and she curiously…”forgot” to mention it. In spite of the numerous times the Robert Oswald statements were printed, not a single person who taught Oswald at Stripling, or attended with him at Stripling, after seeing the articles thought they’d give their story to the paper. These types of stories are numerous in newspapers all across the United States (The Los Angeles Times, 1963) and related stories are referenced in “Harvey & Lee”: Quote I wanted Robert, during his radio interview on KLIF, to ask if anyone in the listening audience had attended Stripling Junior High with Oswald. After finishing the radio interview, Robert called me and said that two people had responded to his request by calling the station. (Armstrong, Former Stripling Junior High students, 2003) Further, numerous local personalities and people connected to Oswald have spoken to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram over the years, and as mentioned, newpapers across the country. Many of them have some connection to Oswald or a story to tell, none have Stripling stories. It is clear the Fort Worth Star-Telegram articles which reference Robert Oswald’s statements regarding Oswald as attending Stripling are blown out of proportion to increase their otherwise neglible importance. At no point over the almost 60 years of coverage does the Star-Telegram update their reporting, and continues to this day to use statements Robert Oswald gave them in 1959. The paper likely was unable to get new statements, and continues to just run with what they have. Moving on from the articles and on to the statements from Robert Oswald regarding Stripling to the Warren Commission: Quote Mr. JENNER. And, at that time, I take it your brother Lee was attending Arlington Heights High School? That would be 1952? Mr. OSWALD. Just a minute, please. In 1952 Lee was 13 years old. He would be attending W. C. Stripling Junior High School then. Mr. JENNER. I see. For the school year 1951-52? Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir. Junior high school there was from the seventh to the ninth grades. And as soon as he was through with his sixth year, he started attending W. C. Stripling Junior High School. Mr. JENNER. As soon as he finished the sixth year at Ridglea Elementary School, he entered W. C. Stripling High School, as a seventh grader? Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir--junior high school. Mr. JENNER. Now, the condition that you described as to Lee shifting for himself during the daytime, when your mother was away working and you were away working, and your brother John was in the Coast Guard, continued, I take it, when he began attendance and while he was attending W. C. Stripling Junior High School? (Warren Commission) As referenced earlier, Robert Oswald joined the Marines in July of 1952 and is referring to a period of time when he had no direct knowledge and is likely only referencing how the living situation would have progressed at that time. This progression did not occur though, because Oswald moved to New York City in August of 1952. Additionally, Robert Oswald had little contact throughout these years and is ultimately unqualified to even speak to what may have happened. The statement from Robert Oswald, while clearly an error on his behalf regarding the chronology of 1952 is nevertheless blown out of proportion and taken out of context and bent to instead claim he meant 1954 and Stripling, another time period for which he had no direct knowledge. When the totality (Merriam-Webster Dictionary, n.d.) of Robert Oswald’s statements are taken into account, it is clear he is not referencing 1954, nor is he scrambling to cover up this reference. He is simply speaking out of turn regarding events he has no actual direct knowledge of. Frank Kudlaty Frank Kudlaty held a variety of positions at Stripling. In 1963 he was the Assistant Principal of Stripling and has stated he gave records pertaining to Oswald to FBI agents the morning following the assassination. His statements are referenced in Harvey and Lee as well as other Internet sites. I was unable to find a transcript of his videotaped interview which appears on Youtube (Armstrong, Frank Kudlaty Interview). So I typed a transcript of this interview and have attached a copy to this writing. From “Harvey & Lee”: Quote I telephoned Mr. Kudlaty, introduced myself as a JFK researcher, and asked if he knew whether or not "Lee Harvey Oswald" had attended Stripling. Without hesitation Frank said, "Yes, he attended Stripling." Somewhat surprised I asked, "How do you know that." Frank replied, "Because I gave his Stripling records to the FBI." I was momentarily stunned by Frank's answer, and asked him to tell me what he remembered in detail. He explained, "Early on the morning following the assassination, Saturday morning, I was telephoned by my boss, Mr. (Weldon) Lucas (Principal of Stripling), and told to go to school and meet two FBI agents. I lived close to the school at that time and arrived at the school before they (FBI Agents) got there. I went into the school and located Oswald's records. In fact I found both Lee Harvey and Robert Oswald's records for Stripling. I opened Lee Harvey Oswald's folder and briefly looked over his records and noted that he had attended less than a full semester at Stripling. He had been there long enough to receive grades for a 6-week period, but not long enough to receive semester grades. I think he was in the 9th grade. I put the records back into the folder and waited for the FBI agents. When they arrived, they showed me their badges for identification, and asked for the records. I told them that I had located both Lee Harvey and Robert Oswald's school records and asked if they wanted both. They told me they only wanted 'Lee Harvey Oswald's' records. After I handed the records to them they thanked me and left. I locked up the school and went home." (Armstrong, Stripling faculty members, 2003) Quote Frank explained, during a videotaped interview, that before the FBI agents arrived at Stripling on Saturday morning (November 23), he briefly reviewed Oswald's school file. He explained that when a student enrolled in a new school, in this case at Stripling, the previous school routinely sent copies of his school transcripts. Occasionally, if the records were not sent, the new school would write and request copies of the school records from the previous school. Frank said that when he examined Oswald's file he saw neither copies of school transcripts from a previous school nor a letter from Stripling requesting such records. Frank said this was very unusual, as Oswald must have attended school prior to his attendance at Stripling, yet there were no records. Frank said the Stripling records showed that Oswald received grades for one 6-week grade period, had attended a second grade period, but had not completed the fall semester. NOTE: Harvey Oswald's failure to complete a full semester of school at PS # 117 or at PS #44 in New York continued at Stripling. His inability to complete a full semester was probably due to his inability to provide transcripts from previous schools. This was probably the reason he dropped out of Stripling and returned to New Orleans with the short, dumpy, heavy-set "Marguerite Oswald" imposter in late 1954. Frank explained that when students graduated or were transferred from Stripling, copies of their Stripling transcripts were sent to the new school along with a cover letter. Once again, Frank saw no indication that copies of Oswald's transcripts from Stripling had been forwarded to any school. The only school records in Oswald's file were those created by his attendance at Stripling, which Frank said was very unusual. NOTE: Copies of Oswald's school transcripts from the 8th grade at Beauregard should have been in Oswald's file at Stripling. Copies of Oswald's school transcripts from the fall semester of 1954 (9th grade) at Stripling should have been forwarded to Warren Easton High School in New Orleans where Harvey Oswald entered the 10th grade in the fall of 1955. After talking with Frank, I realized that certain FBI official(s) had to have known about Lee Harvey Oswald's Stripling Junior High attendance prior to the assassination, which probably meant they also knew about the existence of two Oswalds. (Armstrong, Stripling faculty members, 2003) First, the premise and leap in logic regarding the FBI’s presence at the school is faulty. There are other, more likely scenarios. One being that on the morning after the assassination the FBI sent agents to all local schools in areas Oswald lived. We have no way of knowing rather this could have occurred, other than what is indicated by the Monnig episode and what is indicated by the Stripling episode, an occurrence these two events allude to. Another possibility is that the local FBI was aware of newspaper articles referencing a Marine defector from Fort Worth who attended Stripling. Next, in his videotaped interview, Kudlaty makes a number of statements which when taken all together show that Kudlaty wasn’t exactly sure about what he saw. Either he did not get a look at the records and cannot identify to what school they belong, or there was a thicker file of records than what Kudlaty remembers and he did clearly see Stripling records. Another, and more likely option (which is basically an extension of the first), supported by “Harvey & Lee” no less, is that the records were in fact elementary school records which were sent to Stripling after Oswald left the 6th. Throughout the video Kudlaty states: He only glanced at the records.(:37) The records for Stripling were incomplete. (:42) The records he had could have been elementary school records.(1:42) The records only had elementary school records. (2:09) “how did all the records from the elementary school show up and there are none from the junior high school” Health records would have been in the packet. (7:01) Other school records would have and could have been in the packet.(6:01 The records were in a 5x7 envelope.(pt. 2, 6:04) The envelope of records was a very thin envelop.(pt. 2, 6:14)(Armstrong, Frank Kudlaty Interview) It is doubtful the envelope containing a file of records which contains records from Stripling as well as records from other schools or other school programs could have been a thin file which was contained in a 5x7 envelope. It is unlikely all of the records would have been on 5x7 sheets or cards, like report cards. Many of the records would have been on standard size sheets of paper which if necessary to fit into a 5x7 envelope would need to be awkwardly folded, increasing the size of only a few sheets a paper and leaving a thin envelope unlikely to be thin. The idea of agents going to local schools looking for records is supported in “Harvey & Lee”: Quote Monnig Junior High Frank Kudlaty knew the principal of Monnig Junior High, Mr. Ree Bostick, for many years and talked with him after the assassination. Mr. Bostick told Frank that FBI agents also visited his school and asked for Lee Harvey Oswald's school records. Mr. Bostick did know which records, if any, were given to the agents. If there were records, they were probably copies of Oswald's records from Ridglea West Elementary that were forwarded to Monnig. I spent several weeks trying to locate Mr. Bostick, and finally learned that he died years ago. I did locate and visit his widow at a rest home in Fort Worth, but she had no knowledge of any discussions between her husband and the FBI. (Armstrong, Monnig Junior High, 2003) A visit such as this is exactly what occurred with Kudlaty. This scenario of a possibility of only elementary school records is also supported by Kudlaty’s own statements from his video interview: Quote because it was the procedure that when a student moved from the elementary level to the junior high level…a copy of their records were forwarded to show that they had successfully completed the 6th grade (1:52) (Armstrong, Frank Kudlaty Interview) Since Oswald moved, and never attended the school, he had no further records and any records given by Kudlaty to FBI agents were likely only elementary school records forwarded by the school when he advanced. This would at least explain some of Kudlaty’s statements. In any event, it is clear Kudlaty’s recollection of the records is not what “Harvey & Lee” purports it to be and when the totality (Merriam-Webster Dictionary, n.d.) of Kudlaty’s statements are taken into account, versus a focus on the first minute of his interview, there is no one possibility that can reconciled from his statements and his statements leave a variety of options for what actually occurred. The fact that this ambiguity exists can be traced directly to shoddy journalism by Armstrong. Instead of asking legitimate clarifying questions after Kudlaty explained the climax of his story in the first minute, only to then further make statements which muddled the issue in the second. Armstrong instead passes on the opportunity. As soon as Kudlaty introduced confusion regarding the records, Armstrong should have asked “since the records could contain records from other schools, are you sure the records you looked at pertained to Stripling school and showed Oswald attended there?” He didn’t ask this, or any similar questions. We are either left with deciding for ourselves what occurred, or agreeing to the basic fact that we can’t say for sure, but at least try agreeing that Kudlaty likely gave some form of school records to the FBI. Frank Kudlaty’s statement cannot be reasonably accepted as evidence of Oswald’s attendance at Stripling since he is not clear on what he actually saw. To state anything contrary, one would have to dismiss or rationalize the totality of Kudlaty’s statements and only focus on a single paragraph as the sole truth. Franzetta Schubert Franzetta Schubert was a student at Stripling for 7th and 8th grade and states that she recalls Oswald at Stripling. Like Kudlaty, her statements are often cited as direct proof, and their importance is highlighted by the fact that Schubert and Kudlaty are the only videotaped interviews. From “Harvey & Lee”: Quote At noon Fran used to watch one of the students leave the building, walk through the basketball courts, cross the street (Thomas Place), and enter a white house with a large front porch. The student, clearly remembered by Fran, was "Lee Harvey Oswald." Fran remembered that Oswald was a skinny kid who wore a dark brown leather jacket, blue jeans, and was very quiet. She also remembered Oswald's "mother," who she said was heayy-set and always wore a white nurse's uniform. Fran was in the 8th grade and had no classes with Oswald, who was in the 9th grade, but saw him between classes and in the hallways. She said, "He wasn't there too long and the one thing I remember clearly was him walking home for lunch .....it made me mad that he could go home for lunch and I couldn't. I only saw him for a short time at the beginning of my 8th grade year at Stripling, which would be the 1954-55 school year. " 2220 Thomas Place In 1996 I videotaped an interview with Fran on the west side of the Stripling school grounds. She pointed to the location, on the west side of Thomas Place, where Oswald walked home for lunch. In 1954, the building in which Oswald lived was located at 2220 Thomas Place. It was a small, older, one story, white duplex apartment with a wide front porch. In the late 1970's the building was torn down and replaced with a newer, two story, wood frame duplex. Nearly all of the houses in the neighborhood surrounding Stripling were built in the 1920's and 1930's and are still in very good condition. Curiously, the duplex at 2220 Thomas Place was the only building in the neighborhood that was torn down and replaced with a newer structure. (Armstrong, Former Stripling Junior High students, 2003) Like Kudlaty, if one is to rely on Schubert’s story they have to dismiss everything she said and instead focus on one statement: Quote 8th grader, as an 8th grade…would be during the 54-55 school year…right? And we would see Lee Harvey Oswald and his friends going across the playground…going home for lunch, and that’s how I remember seeing him in the school.(:23) (Armstrong, Francetta Schubert Interview) Even in this statement though she is telling the audience she doesn’t actually know who the boy is, only that he looks like Oswald. This is supported by a later statement: Quote Interviewer 2: Were you in any classes with him? Schubert: No, I’d just see him in the halls walking around…so I knew who he was…from being…I tell you because they were going home for lunch and I wanted to (1:26) (Armstrong, Francetta Schubert Interview) Here she is clear, she knows him because he goes home from lunch and she wants to as well. She doesn’t appear to know a boy named Oswald, she only knows a boy who walks across the school yard who apparently looks like Oswald. She further makes statements which directly contradict the entire Stripling episode: Quote Schubert: It would have been in the cold months (audio blip) been when I remember seeing him, would have been in January…December…January…months(?), because they had the jackets on (2:30) (Armstrong, Francetta Schubert Interview) According to “Harvey & Lee”: Quote September-November, 1954……moved into a small apartment at 2220 Thomas Place, and Harvey began attending 9th grade classes at W.C. Stripling Junior High… (Armstrong, September-November, 1954: Harvey Oswald in Fort Worth, 2003) Why would a witness who directly contradicts the timeline you are claiming as true be used? Are we to believe she might be mistaken? Mistaken about what? Seeing Oswald, or the time she saw him? If her 30 year old memory of events which occurred when she was 13 can be mistaken about one thing, could it maybe be mistaken about other things as well? Further, she contradicts her own statements: Quote Interviewer 2: What was his personality like? Schubert: He…was kind of a cocky little character. The way he (audio blip), you said by the way he walked…you know his body language…and…he…ran with…the boys who wore the black leather boots and the black leather jacket but his wasn’t black it was brown, he had the brown boots and the dark brown jacket. (1:41) Quote Interviewer 2: So you only saw him for a short period of time? Schubert: Right…right, that I remember it. He was a kind of non-descript little character and you usually forget…if you didn’t see him. (2:43) (Armstrong, Francetta Schubert Interview) So which was it? Was he a cocky little character with specific body language and very descript clothing types and friend group, or was he a non-descript little character you wouldn’t remember? These descriptions do not match. Additionally, Delbert McClinton is named by both Kudlaty and Schubert, why has no one contacted him and asked if he can recall who he went home during lunch with? When one takes the totality (Merriam-Webster Dictionary, n.d.) of Schubert’s statements into account, it is obvious she is unclear about who she saw and that her statements contradict the official version of Stripling according to Harvey and Lee. The only way a person can use her as a witness is if they ignore the totality and instead only focus on the single brick in the wall “Oswald walked across the playground on his way to lunch.” Mark Summers Summers was a teacher at Stripling was stated to recall Oswald from his class. From “Harvey & Lee”: Quote One man I spoke with was Mark Summers, a former gym teacher, who began his 10-year tenure at Stripling in September 1950, one year after Robert Oswald graduated from the school (1949). Mr. Summers said that "Lee Harvey Oswald" was a student in his gym class for a short time, but remembered little about him. Armstrong does not reference the year Summers placed Oswald in his class, which is only included in his notes, but was 7th grade, 1952. (page 10) (Armstrong & Baylor University, LHO: 1954-1955) Summers is clearly confused about what he remembers. He references teaching Robert Oswald, when they weren’t at the school at the same time. The totality (Merriam-Webster Dictionary, n.d.) of Summers statements would seemingly eliminate him as a witness, and just leave him as a guy likely confused about what he remembers. If though you leave out the year, as well as his comments regarding Robert Oswald, his statement can fit into the “Harvey & Lee” timeline. How each individual reconciles this is ultimately up to them, it is clear though that Summers is not a witness to Oswald attending Stripling in the fall 1954-55 school semester. Doug Gann Doug Gann was a student at Stripling during the referenced time period. From “Harvey & Lee”: Quote JFK researcher Dave Reinmuth put me in contact with Doug Gann, a former Stripling student who had attended school with Oswald. Gann said that he attended school with Oswald in the 9th grade (1954-55) and may have been in the same homeroom. He remembered that after school Oswald would shoot baskets on the basketball courts, and said that he lived "across the street from the basketball courts and one or two houses to the left (south)." The location Mr. Gann described was the duplex formerly located at 2220 Thomas Place-the same house identified by Fran Schubert. (Armstrong, Stripling students remember Oswald, 2003) Like Summers, aside from the single comment, there does not appear to be any record of Gann’s statements. It would be nice to have more than just this to go on, but if I’m left with only this (even taking into account anything else said regarding Stripling and H&L), I can’t in good faith and with good conscience say this is evidence of anything. For me to state with good conscience that Gann saw Oswald, I would have to know how he made the distinction and identified the person as Oswald. Did he know the person’s name, hear it in the homeroom he thinks he had with him for instance, and then see Oswald on TV and know it was the same person? Or did he see Oswald on TV and think it looked like a kid in his homeroom who shot baskets on the court and lived across the street? The distinction is incredibly important, and for me makes or breaks the entire statement. Without this crucial piece of information I cannot honestly give credence to Gann’s statements. They may be true and they may not be. A good journalist wouldn’t have left us asking this easily answered question. Bobby/Bobbie Pitts (both spellings are in the book) Bobby/Bobbie Pitts (both spellings are in the book) was not a Stripling student at the same time as Oswald was alleged to have attended Stripling, but did reside in a house next door to the house Oswald is alleged to live in. From “Harvey & Lee”: Quote I searched Fran's 1953-54 student directory and Fort Worth City Directories in an attempt to locate people who had lived near 2220 Thomas Place in the fall of 1954. I located Bobby Pitts, who lived next door at 2224 Thomas Place during the 1954-55 school year. Bobbie was in the 10th grade at Arlington Heights High School but his younger brother, Jackie (2 years younger), attended Stripling. Bobbie remembered that when he and some of the neighborhood boys played touch football in his front yard, Lee Harvey Oswald would stand on the porch at 2220 Thomas Place and watch. (Armstrong, Stripling students remember Oswald, 2003) I’m not sure why there are two different spellings of the name. I’d also like to point out the pattern of Armstrong manipulating truth to fit his narrative, this section is titled “Stripling Students Remember Oswald.” Pitts did not attend Stripling, his younger brother did. Why did the younger brother not have anything to say regarding Oswald, who he allegedly attended school with? Unless Armstrong really is just the worst journalist ever, he had to have asked the younger brother if he knew anything about Oswald, yet there isn’t even anything in his notes. The same basic problem exists here as with Gann and as with Schubert, especially if Pitts did not attend at the same time, how did he know this was Oswald? Did he go up to the boy and say “hey I’m Bobbie(sic), want to play some football with us….what’s your name by the way….?.” Or, did he see Oswald on TV, and think it looked like a boy who lived next door? If I state that I saw “(insert name here)” rob a store last night, the follow-up question isn’t “what store?” A rational question is “how did you know it was (insert name here)?” I’d think you would ask it at some point, to at least one of the people you are interviewing. In any event, it’s difficult to use Pitts as some kind of witness with any good conscience. Especially if you also consider that according to Armstrong, the house Oswald lived in while attending Stripling was a duplex in which Oswald resided in the rear apartment. (Armstrong, 2220 Thomas Place, 2003) Any person who resided in the rear apartment would not “hang out” on the front porch of the apartment, which would be part of the front apartment. This would be akin to you just walking to your neighbor’s house and sitting on their porch. Ricardo Galindo Finally, we’ve arrived at Ricardo Galindo. I have purposely left him for last due to what his statement was. According to Armstrong, Galindo was the Principal at Stripling Junior High School when Armstrong was researching “Harvey & Lee” and that he mentioned to Armstrong the fact that it was “common knowledge” Oswald had attended Stripling. Quote Mr. Galindo telephoned and said that while he did not have possession of such records, it was "common knowledge" that Oswald attended Stripling. (Armstrong, Harvey Oswald at Stripling in the fall of 1954, 2003) At no point is any clarification made regarding this knowledge. I guess we can assume among faculty, since he is a Principal and would likely not be involved in student gossip, it is possible though that he refers to both student and faculty. It has already reasonably established that “common knowledge” of Oswald was not as common as stated, and when all the information is presented it seems obvious that any legitimate knowledge of Oswald is absent and that the statement “common knowledge” cannot be reasonable be related to Oswald attending Stripling. Recall the interview with Mrs. Bratton, the teacher at Stripling who researched Oswald’s family, yet did not relay any “common knowledge” of Oswald attending Stripling. In closing, it is obvious there is nothing at all to Stripling. Individually, no witness makes a clear case for Oswald at Stripling. Robert Oswald – Refers to different timeframe Kudlaty – Gives confusing information regarding school records Schubert – Gives contradicting timeframe, gives contradicting descriptions of Oswald, gives contradicting location of where he lives (same house different apartment) Summers – Is clearly confused Gann – Does not make clear case for identification Pitts – Gives no information about Oswald attending Stripling Galindo – When weighed against totality of Stripling evidence, is clearly wrong When taken in totality (Merriam-Webster Dictionary, n.d.), all of the information which makes the entire story is nothing more than a literal handful of people with stories stretching across 30 years which all tell different stories being strung together based on very flimsy and dubious details. It is hardly the unequivocal story of Oswald attending Stripling as presented by Armstrong and supported by his followers. References Armstrong, J. (2003). 2220 Thomas Place. In Harvey & Lee: How the CIA Framed Oswald (p. 101). Arlington: Quasar, LTD. Armstrong, J. (2003). Former Stripling Junior High students. In Harvey & Lee: How the CIA Framed Oswald (p. 100). Arlington: Quasar, LTD. Armstrong, J. (2003). Former Stripling Junior High students. In Harvey & Lee: How the CIA Framed Oswald (p. 101). Arlington: Quasar, LTD. Armstrong, J. (2003). Harvey Oswald at Stripling in the fall of 1954. In Harvey & Lee: How the CIA Framed Oswald (p. 97). Arlington: Quasar, LTD. Armstrong, J. (2003). March-June: Myra DaRouse and Harvey Oswald. In Harvey & Lee: How the CIA Framed Oswald (p. 89). Arlington: Quasar, LTD. Armstrong, J. (2003). Monnig Junior High. In Harvey & Lee: How the CIA Framed Oswald (p. 100). Arlington: Quasar, LTD. Armstrong, J. (2003). September-November, 1954: Harvey Oswald in Fort Worth. In Harvey & Lee: How the CIA Framed Oswald (p. 94). Arlington: Quasar, LTD. Armstrong, J. (2003). Stripling faculty members. In Harvey & Lee: How the CIA Framed Oswald (pp. 98-99). Arlington: Quasar, LTD. Armstrong, J. (n.d.). Francetta Schubert Interview. Retrieved from Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVxa1B2wJjA Armstrong, J. (n.d.). Frank Kudlaty Interview. Retrieved from Youtube.com: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCz5_bd3R6g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuKbZxpOnxc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZcwV4vju_0 Armstrong, J. (n.d.). LHO: 1954-1955. Retrieved from Baylor University Digital Libraries: https://digitalcollections-baylor.quartexcollections.com/Documents/Detail/lho-1954-1955/708298 El Paso Times. (1959). In Texan Wants To Be Soviet (p. 18). El Paso: Times. Fort Worth Star-Telegram. (1959). In L. Strothers, City Youth in Moscow Says He Won't Return (pp. 1-2). Fort Worth: Star-Telegram. Fort Worth Star-Telegram. (1959). In L. Strothers, Brother's Turn To Reds Puzzles Ft. Worth Man (pp. 1-2). Fort Worth: Star-Telegram. Fort Worth Star-Telegram. (1959). Passport Turned in At Moscow. In J. Douglass, Ft. Worth Man Asks Red Citizenship (pp. 1-2). Fort Worth: Star-Telegram. Fort Worth Star-Telegram. (1962). In Ex-Resident 'Fed Up' in Russia; May Be Back (p. 1). Fort Worth: Star-Telegram. Fort Worth Star-Telegram. (1963). In J. Conal, Oswald Kept To Himself; Friends Few (p. 10). Fort Worth: Star-Telegram. Fort Worth Star-Telegram. (1980). Fort Worth: Star-Telegram. Fort Worth Star-Telegram. (1992). Teacher recalls famous studens. In B. Fairley, Tales of Old Westside (p. 75). Fort Worth: Star-Telegram. Fort Worth Star-Telegram. (1999). In Last day of Camelot (p. 143). Fort Worth: Star-Telegram. Fort Worth Star-Telegram. (1999). In Assassinations-John F. Kennedy (p. 111). Fort Worth: Star-Telegram. Fort Worth Star-Telegram. (2006). In A Fort Worth welcome (p. Z0). Fort Worth: Star-Telegram. Merriam-Webster Dictionary. (n.d.). Definition of Totality. Retrieved from Merriam-Webster Dictionary: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/totality The Corpus Christi Caller-Times. (1959). Applies For Soviet Citizenship. In Faces In The News (p. 25). Corpus Christi: Caller-Times. The Kilgore News Herald. (1959). In Turns Red (p. 3). Kilgore: News Herald. The Los Angeles Times. (1963). Accused Assassin Spent His Life Seeking Release From Obscurity. In G. Blake, Infamy Came With A Loaded Gun (p. 6). Los Angeles: Los Angeles Time. Warren Commission. (n.d.). Retrieved from Testimony of Robert Oswald: https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/oswald_r.htm Waxahachie Daily Light. (1959). In Applies For Soviet Citizenship (p. 1). Waxahachie: Daily Light. Edited July 18, 2020 by Mark Stevens formatting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 I haven't read the post above, but here is the Stripling School evidence the H&L critics can’t make go away. First, of course, is the prerequisite proof that the two LHOs attended two different schools just one year before the Stripling School attendance. Because both the FBI and the Warren Commission missed this detail and neglected to cover it up, school records published in the Warren volumes show that both LHOs attended a full fall 1953 school semester in New York City and New Orleans simultaneously. In the fall semester of 1953, one LHO attended Public School 44 in the Bronx borough of New York City, where he was present for 62 full days and 5 half days, was absent 3 full days and 8 half days, for a total accounting of 78 days. Also in the fall semester of 1953, the other LHO was present at Beauregard Junior High School in New Orleans for 89 school days. One year later, one LHO attended Beauregard School in New Orleans while the other was indeed enrolled in Stripling School in Fort Worth. It was, and remains, common knowledge among local Stripling School district residents and current and former students and teachers that Lee Harvey Oswald attended Stripling School in the 1950s. The Fort Worth Star-Telegram confirmed this simple fact in an article published in 2017 and updated in 2019. Quote Once again, This 1959 Fort Worth Star-Telegram article indicates LHO attended Stripling. This 1962 Fort Worth Star-Telegram article indicates LHO attended Stripling. Published two days after the assassination of JFK, this Fort Worth Star-Telegram article reported: “He attended Stripling Junior High School and Arlington Heights High School before joining the Marines.” In his 1964 Warren Commission testimony, Robert Oswald said that LHO attended Stripling School. This May 11, 2002 Fort Worth Star-Telegram article indicated that “a boy walked to Stripling from a home nearby. His mother was living in a home behind the school on Thomas Place by 1963, when the world learned the name Lee Harvey Oswald.” And then, of course, there is the Fort Worth Star-Telegram article from 2017 mentioned above. Way back on December 27, 1993, John Armstrong wrote to Ricardo Galindo, the then current principal of Stripling School, asking if there were any records for Lee Harvey Oswald's attendance the school. Mr. Galindo telephoned John back and said that, although there were no records, it was “common knowledge” that LHO had attended the school. [Harvey and Lee, p. 97] In this 1997 interview, Stripling Student Fran Schubert watched LHO walk from the school to his house at 2220 Thomas Place just across the street from the school. And, of course, in a 1997 interview, the assistant principal of Stripling School described how he met two FBI agents at Stripling less than 24 hours after the assassination and gave them the records for LHO. Mr. Stevens can only say that Frank Kudlaty, who went on to become the Superintendent of Schools for Waco, Texas, was mistaken (about his entire story of meeting FBI agents hours after the assassination???) or lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stevens Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 I'm not entirely shocked that the very first reply to this topic is: I haven't read the OP, but here is some unrelated evidence that isn't being discussed. How are you even making a response to a topic you didn't read? Can we please not start on this note and at this keep this thread on the topic of Stipling? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Mark Stevens said: Can we please not start on this note and at this keep this thread on the topic of Stipling? Thanks I read it Mark... A lot of work, time and effort... . I'd like you to consider the interesting coincidences surrounding 2220 Thomas over the years while I take a day or so to work a reply. Very interesting..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stevens Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, David Josephs said: I read it Mark... A lot of work, time and effort... . I'd like you to consider the interesting coincidences surrounding 2220 Thomas over the years while I take a day or so to work a reply. Very interesting..... I actually have some things I'm looking into in that regard as well. Mainly involving two boys who may have resided there. One aspect involves a Fort Worth trip, so I'm trying to get in touch with a friend who lived there to ask for their assistance. If I'm on the right path I'll be able to name who lived there and documented proof. It's still a premature theory at this point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Good luck Mark... again, I think Jim is doing a great service ... John the digging.... whole point was to keep digging... we may not agree on every item, but we understand the the picture.... why have so many intelligence related people been within 1 or 2 degrees of separation from this Oswald fellow. NYC 1953 is a hole worth diving into some day.... I want you to consider that Pic and Robert conflict as to when Robert was in NY.... Robert tries to move it off to late 1953, (Pic does not see Lee after 2/53) When Pic, wife, Lee Marge, and others where together in the late fall months of 1952.... Lee would be at school in NYC... not Stripling.... and Robert would/should know that since he was there with Lee attending a NYC school... Mr. PIC - I think this was, his leave was probably in October or November 1952, a matter of a month or two after they had moved out. We visited their apartment in the Bronx.Mr. JENNER - Excuse me, where did your brother stay?Mr. PIC - I think he stayed at the Soldier-Sailor-Airmen Club in New York.Mr. JENNER - In any event he did not stay with you.Mr. PIC - No, sir; he may have stayed with my mother also. I don't think so. Maybe for a night or two. We went out, my wife fixed him up with a date with one of her girl friends and we went out together a couple of times. So, we were invited up there for this Sunday dinner. So it was my mother, Lee, Robert, my wife, myself, and my son.Robert was already there when we arrived. When Lee seen me or my wife he left the room. For dinner he sat in the front room watching TV and didn't join us whatsoever. Even if NOT... Mark... he was there again in 1953... staying with the family... he'd still not know there was no Stripling? Mr. OSWALD. This was July or August of 1953. I had my orders to go to Miami, Fla. I took a 10-day leave and left Millington, Tenn., by car and came to New York City and spent 10 days in New York with Lee, mother, John, and his family.Mr. JENNER. Where did you stay?Mr. OSWALD. At mother's apartment, with Lee, in the Bronx some place I do not recall the address. Mr. JENNER. What, if anything, did you learn at that time regarding Lee's attendance or nonattendance in school? Mr. OSWALD. Nothing on that, sir. This was in the summer time. Lee, of course, was home and not supposed to be in school. And I do not think anything was brought up that I recall about whether or not Lee had been attending school regularly or not. Mr. McKENZIE. Can we go off the record? Mr. JENNER. Yes. (Discussion off the record.) ===PIC is placing the time exactly when Robert would be visiting, or soon to visit and not a single word is mentioned from mother? odd to me. Mr. JENNER - During the time, on the occasions when you saw her, which was relatively infrequent from January of 1953 to, what is the next date you gave, September of 1953?Mr. PIC - August-September 1953.Mr. JENNER - August of 1953, September of 1953, was there any discussion with her about Lee?Mr. PIC - When I asked about him it was the same old stuff, he is getting along better. She would tell me that he still doesn't have anybody to confide in, things like this.Mr. JENNER - Was there any further discussion about truancy, any possibility of care for him by a psychiatrist?Mr. PIC - No, sir; when I asked about this she said everything was working out fine.Mr. JENNER - All right. PIC had not seen LEE since Feb 1953.... Pic is referring to his real mother here... and the real Lee.... PIC was not with Robert or Lee (the boy in this photo at the zoo) while with his mother...in 1953 and Robert knew it. (In Aug 1953 Robert's LEE was not the one from Late 1951 when the inset was taken....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 6 hours ago, Mark Stevens said: Already, the Star Telegram has begun to recycle their reporting, a pattern which is repeated in regards to Stripling almost every time the Star Telegram mentions Oswald. I don't think so, Mark, and clearly not in the case of LHO's attendance at Stripling School. The earliest Fort Worth Star-Telegram (FWST) articles indicate Robert said that LHO attended Stripling a year or so before joining the Marines (marking the 1954-55 school year most likely), which is what actually happened. Two days after the assassination, a third FWST article merely stated LHO attended Stripling but didn’t say when. During Robert Oswald’s 1964 WC testimony, he swore that LHO DID attend Stripling, but gave incorrect dates. The 2002 FWST article said, “Yet a 1956 student would become the school’s best-known. For a few weeks—his mother moved several times across Fort Worth—a boy walked to Stripling from a home nearby. His mother was living in a home behind the school on Thomas Place by 1963, when the world learned the name Lee Harvey Oswald.” The 2017 FWST article merely says, without giving a date, “Teachers and classmates remember him as attending Stripling, though there is no official record.” These articles clearly have different sources because they provide different details and, in at least one case, disagree on the year LHO attended Stripling, though all clearly agree that he did attend that school. So.... Despite the five newspaper articles, and Robert Oswald’s sworn testimony confirming LHO’s Stripling attendance, and Marguerite’s newspaper interview indirectly confirming it, and filmed interviews with a 1954 Stripling classmate and the Stripling assistant principal in 1963 who gave LHO’s records to the FBI, the H&L critics simply cannot accept any of this. Why? Because they know if LHO attended Stripling even briefly in 1954, there were two LHOs, and, above all else, they cannot accept this. That leads directly to the U.S. Intel project the Russian-speaking LHO was trained for. In the meantime, will ANY H&L critic respond to the really burning question here? I’ve asked this many times before and I've never received an answer. If the Stripling School attendance is so hard to believe, isn’t it remarkable that, just one year earlier, in the fall semester of 1953: One LHO attended Public School 44 in the Bronx borough of New York City, where he was present for 62 full days and 5 half days, was absent 3 full days and 8 half days, for a total accounting of 78 days. and Also in the fall semester of 1953, the other LHO was present at Beauregard Junior High School in New Orleans for 89 school days? These documents are published in the Warren Volumes and I’ve put them up on the Ed Forum many times. Besides an occasional link and a false claim that it has been debunked elsewhere, no H&L critic seems to have the courage to discuss these documents right here, on the JFK Assassination Debate Forum. Why do you suppose that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stevens Posted July 19, 2020 Author Share Posted July 19, 2020 19 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said: I don't think so, Mark, and clearly not in the case of LHO's attendance at Stripling School. This isn't really about what you think Jim. This is about a clear pattern of repetition within the reporting of the Star-Telegram which is clear based on the evidence, the evidence being their actual news stories. Quote The earliest Fort Worth Star-Telegram (FWST) articles indicate Robert said that LHO attended Stripling a year or so before joining the Marines (marking the 1954-55 school year most likely), which is what actually happened. Two days after the assassination, a third FWST article merely stated LHO attended Stripling but didn’t say when. Robert Oswald has only given two interviews to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram in his entire life. I have posted excerpts from the interviews in the OP and I can provide them to anyone who would like. Any article which references Robert Oswald's statements refer to these two interviews (one of which he did not state Stripling, BTW). Would you care to comment on his omission of Stripling in his November 1st, 1959 interview? At no point has the Star-Telegram presented any interview with anyone who claims attendance with Oswald at Stripling. What do you suppose they base all of their Stripling/Oswald statements on? Guessing? The one person they talked to who said it one time? Did they read Harvey & Lee? Can you answer the question as to how what they base their Oswald/Stripling statements on? I have created a reasonable argument that their statements are based on a single Robert Oswald interview. I don't care if they print the story until the year 2763, it will not change fact that they have a single source from a single interview. When interviewed a second time, he did not mention Stripling. Regardless of your superhuman ability to ignore these facts, they impact the reliability and credibility of his statements. You have not countered this argument by continuing to mention how many times they repeated Robert Oswald's one interview statements. You need to support your argument by providing additional statements, or additional people who have made the statements to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. Quote During Robert Oswald’s 1964 WC testimony, he swore that LHO DID attend Stripling, but gave incorrect dates. Since Robert Oswald was not in the home during this years, and by his own admission spoke little to his brother or his mother, what do you suppose this information is based upon? Are these comments reliable? I have created a reasonable argument that they are not reliable due to the aforementioned facts. Can you counter this argument by presenting evidence or knowledge Robert Oswald was in possession of which made him qualified to make these comments? Quote The 2002 FWST article said, “Yet a 1956 student would become the school’s best-known. For a few weeks—his mother moved several times across Fort Worth—a boy walked to Stripling from a home nearby. His mother was living in a home behind the school on Thomas Place by 1963, when the world learned the name Lee Harvey Oswald.” The 2017 FWST article merely says, without giving a date, “Teachers and classmates remember him as attending Stripling, though there is no official record.” These articles clearly have different sources because they provide different details and, in at least one case, disagree on the year LHO attended Stripling, though all clearly agree that he did attend that school. So.... These articles do not provide different details. They provide different scenes for which to paint the story. At no point is any detail provided. Can you please cite the details which are provided which clearly depict different sources? The quote "a boy walked to Stripling from a home nearby" is not a detail, it is an embellishment. It fits the pattern of this particular author, Bud Kennedy's, writing style. This is easily depicted in his articles. Please provide evidence of a source other than 1959 Robert Oswald for your assertion. Quote Despite the five newspaper articles, and Robert Oswald’s sworn testimony confirming LHO’s Stripling attendance, and Marguerite’s newspaper interview indirectly confirming it, and filmed interviews with a 1954 Stripling classmate and the Stripling assistant principal in 1963 who gave LHO’s records to the FBI, the H&L critics simply cannot accept any of this. Can you please provide evidence of Marguerite stating Oswald went to Stripling. I, personally, cannot accept the above statement because the evidence, as it related to Stripling, does not support Oswald attending Stripling. Despite your bloviating to the contrary, you have done nothing to refute any of my arguments and have only continued to offer more easily refuted speculation and hearsay. I cannot speak for any other "H&L critic." Quote Why? Because they know if LHO attended Stripling even briefly in 1954, there were two LHOs, and, above all else, they cannot accept this. That leads directly to the U.S. Intel project the Russian-speaking LHO was trained for. This is just patently incorrect, and goes to the heart of this Harvey & Lee-centric thinking that Harvey & Lee supporters have. The idea of two Oswald's is entirely possible without anything to do with a Hungarian Oswald trained since...whatever age...to be a thooper spy and take down the eveel commies. Plenty of plausible scenarios exist which posit and support some form of a second Oswald and you could cut out the relevant portions which support these ideas from Harvey & Lee and still leave 900 pages in the book. The fact is that the scenario, as presented in Harvey & Lee, is ridiculous. Quote In the meantime, will ANY H&L critic respond to the really burning question here? I’ve asked this many times before and I've never received an answer. If the Stripling School attendance is so hard to believe, isn’t it remarkable that, just one year earlier, in the fall semester of 1953: One LHO attended Public School 44 in the Bronx borough of New York City, where he was present for 62 full days and 5 half days, was absent 3 full days and 8 half days, for a total accounting of 78 days. and Also in the fall semester of 1953, the other LHO was present at Beauregard Junior High School in New Orleans for 89 school days? These documents are published in the Warren Volumes and I’ve put them up on the Ed Forum many times. Besides an occasional link and a false claim that it has been debunked elsewhere, no H&L critic seems to have the courage to discuss these documents right here, on the JFK Assassination Debate Forum. Why do you suppose that is? Will you make this topic, and allow people to discuss it there? I've make a post about Stripling, and would like people to discuss it...here. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Charles-Dunne Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Just a quick word, Mark. Bravo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 13 hours ago, Mark Stevens said: Since Robert Oswald was not in the home during this years, and by his own admission spoke little to his brother or his mother, what do you suppose this information is based upon? I’m a little pressed for time because John A. has made a major update to HarveyandLee.net that I’ve got to start converting to html, but I did get a chance to read Mr. Stevens’ OP and must congratulate him on the major effort he has made to impeach the Stripling evidence. Nevertheless.... Nothing anyone can say or do can alter the obvious facts that Robert Oswald told the local newspaper before the assassination and swore to the WC after the assassination that LHO attended Stripling School. Nor can it alter the video recorded recollection by Stripling assistant principal Frank Kudlaty that he gave LHO’s Stripling School records to two FBI agents just hours after the assassination, nor can it alter the video recorded statement by Stripling student Fran Schubert indicating she watched LHO walk from Stripling School across the street to 2220 Thomas Place, the same home Marguerite was living in at the time of the assassination and probably the same home she used to store furniture and personal possessions way back to 1947, when she was living at 101 San Saba in Benbrook. H&L critics should note that all of this evidence, including five articles by the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, can be referenced quickly and I would think that their best hope of conclusively countering it all would be to pressure the Star-Telegram to print a formal retraction. Any real debunking of the Stripling evidence should also debunk the clear evidence that, just one year before one LHO was at Stripling and the other at Beauregard, one LHO was attending school in NYC city and the other in New Orleans. The evidence for that was accidentally published by the WC and I’ve posted it above. John A. has written that Robert Oswald and LHO probably compared notes about Stripling School when, for several weeks prior to his marriage in 1956, Robert lived with LHO and Marguerite at 4936 Collinwood in Fort Worth, about 10 blocks from Stripling School. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Tracy Parnell Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, Mark Stevens said: When taken in totality (Merriam-Webster Dictionary, n.d.), all of the information which makes the entire story is nothing more than a literal handful of people with stories stretching across 30 years which all tell different stories being strung together based on very flimsy and dubious details. It is hardly the unequivocal story of Oswald attending Stripling as presented by Armstrong and supported by his followers. Very good report Mark and good luck with your ongoing research. Edited July 19, 2020 by W. Tracy Parnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Tracy Parnell Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said: Nothing anyone can say or do can alter the obvious facts that Robert Oswald told the local newspaper before the assassination and swore to the WC after the assassination that LHO attended Stripling School. That is correct and Robert certainly believed it or he wouldn't have testified to it. The same may be said for all of the "witnesses" to Stripling. They probably all acted in good faith. And the same may be said for the more than 2000 individuals who said they saw prison escapees Matt and Sweat (made famous by the Showtime docudrama) in various places in New York and elsewhere that later evidence proved was not possible. Human nature being what it is, human beings will make all sorts of claims for various reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 15 hours ago, Mark Stevens said: I've make a post about Stripling, and would like people to discuss it...here. What I posted Mark, leads us to Dec 1953,, a year before Stripling... I’d think we both agree that certain events lead to the scent of duplicity... Stripling doesn’t just happen on an island. I get the feeling you didn’t bother reading my post at all.... where we find Pc and Robert at odds over the fall of 1952 when Robert falsely claims he was not in NYC with Lee, mother and the Pics... to Robert per his story, Lee is in NYC and not possibly at Stripling in 7th grade... Pic says he was there... no matter, fast forward to August 1953. Robert is with Harvey, taking his photo... Pic visits his real mother, Lee is not included... Lee, says mom, has no one to confide in... yet Robert is within weeks one way or the other of coming and living with Lee and Marge... I see this as the real mother and Pic talking and not mentioning an event that will not happen to them... Robert is visiting Harvey, the boy at the zoo, and Marge.... Robert knows about both boys, I conclude, and truly does not know where Harvey and Marge go in Sept 1953.... while Lee and mother Stay thru Jan 1954 then go to New Orleans and Beauregard January 1954. But Jenner keeps up the attack on the correct years Mr. OSWALD. Just a minute, please.In 1952 Lee was 13 years old. He would be attending W. C. Stripling Junior High School then. Mr. JENNER. I see. For the school year 1951-52? (NO, 7th grade is 52-53) But we are talking about 1954, September..... gotta finish this on the laptop... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Charles-Dunne Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said: The earliest Fort Worth Star-Telegram (FWST) articles indicate Robert said that LHO attended Stripling a year or so before joining the Marines (marking the 1954-55 school year most likely), which is what actually happened. Two days after the assassination, a third FWST article merely stated LHO attended Stripling but didn’t say when. During Robert Oswald’s 1964 WC testimony, he swore that LHO DID attend Stripling, but gave incorrect dates. You are correct. Robert told the same story to both the FWST in 1959, and to the WC four-plus years later. Doesn’t mean it’s accurate and true, but that’s a rampart on which you’re prepared to die for whatever reason. Which is a repeated occurrence. Things are only viable evidence if they are true. Decades after the fact, the uncorroborated recollections of even well-intentioned ‘witnesses’ don’t automatically get verified as “true.” Because while it may (or may not) be “evidence,” it certainly doesn’t constitute proof. Yet more problematic, as I’ve repeatedly pointed out - only to have it elided and ignored by the crack H&L squad : if keeping the LHO Stripling attendance top secret was necessary, why was Robert Oswald allowed to repeat this H&L-exposing comment for a four-plus year period? First to a newspaper in ‘59 and to the WC in ‘64? Not exactly low profile. Is that not something of a boo-boo for the CIA brain-trust? A boo-boo they had nearly five years to “fix”, yet didn’t. Did the Agency not maintain and glean from a folder that contained 1959 news stories from the mysterious defector's home town? If not, why? Not doing so would be considered a gross dereliction of the most basic intelligence duties. CIA has a mysterious defector to the USSR but DOESN'T keep local media reports in any file? But I thought this information was super-ultra-eyes-only and closely held. Public exposure had to be scuttled at all costs. So, how come we all know it? Why did no one caution Robert Oswald to stop discussing Stripling, if that was the heart of darkness at the core of a Top Secret program? It’s possible the Agency is so incompetent that it forgot to “correct” Robert Oswald. Or, equally possible, this is all a speculative Rube Goldberg device that wilts under impartial scrutiny. How can it be that an ultra-secret school attendance by LHO for six weeks is now “common knowledge” among people who weren’t even there at the time? And how does that constitute “proof” of anything? But it gets worse for the crack H&L squad. They say, of necessity, that Robert Oswald got the dates wrong in his WC testimony. Because telling the proper dates would give away the Top Secret plot, they allege. When in fact ANY testimony he gave about Stripling did the same. So, the crack H&L squad demands we accept Robert Oswald’s word LHO attended Stripling, just not when he really did, according to H&L dead sea scrolls. The modus operandi seems to be that we must believe him to be right, when he was clearly wrong, and then believe him wrong when it disagrees with their pet scenario. Way to cherry-pick just what suits you. I have tried, to no avail as yet, to locate any law enforcement documents on Weldon Lucas, the Stripling principal who allegedly tasked Kudlaty with providing documents to the FBI on Sat. Nov. 23. It would seem there should be some document - particularly within FBI holdings - that reflects the Bureau asked Lucas to arrange this, but it does not appear to exist. Is that because the doc was deep-sixed? Or just never existed? (I proffer no answer for that.) In any event, one must also rationalize just how much data the Bureau knew about a hush-hush CIA operation. Fractious political wars within and between the two agencies led both to prevent the other from obtaining certain of an agency's secrets. Data-sharing was not the default protocol, and we've seen many instances in which CIA and FBI refrained from sharing complete information. (Mexico City cables with Langley, as an example. Or that Hoover would in 1960 express interest in LHO's birth certificate. If the Bureau was in the know about the top secret H&L project, Hoover would have remained silent.) In order to verify Kudlaty’s tale in the mid-‘90's, would not John Armstrong have sought out the man who could confirm he’d given Kudlaty this task? Perhaps he tried to do so, but Lucas was already deceased. Or perhaps Lucas was still alive, reached by Armstrong, but then declined to make a statement. Or made a statement so at odds with the H&L hypothesis that it was stricken. At present, I see nothing that resolves these questions with certainty. But would very much welcome any additional info regarding efforts made to interview Lucas, and results, if any. I'd also like to see rationalized how it was that Paul Gregory, who attended Stripling in the same grade and same year as LHO, did not recall LHO at Stripling? Or recognize him a half dozen years later. While others are cited who recalled LHO clearly, Gregory didn't. It would also be interesting to see rationalized the existence of LHO Stripling school records dating back more than a half dozen years, yet still extant in late '63 and held at a school the top secret Oswald attended. Would CIA not have scrubbed those records in the interim? Why leave them lying around, if it could disclose to the targeted Soviets what CIA was planning? And please... no regurgitation of the derp already posted too many times in another related thread. Repetition does not render a falsehood true. And a billion emoticons will only use bandwidth to no constructive end. And it just pisses off the very people you're theoretically trying to convince. Edited July 19, 2020 by Robert Charles-Dunne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Robert Charles-Dunne said: And please... no regurgitation of the derp already posted too many times in another related thread. Repetition does not render a falsehood true. That "derp" you keep whining about is the EVIDENCE that one LHO attended Stripling School. No wonder you want to run away from it. Five local newspaper articles... sworn testimony by Robert Oswald, video interviews with Stripling assistant principal Frank Kudlaty and Stripling student Fran Schubert, as well as other witnesses that John A. described in his book. None of this will go away no matter what you say. Edited July 19, 2020 by Jim Hargrove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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