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Destroying the WC Lies --- The Rifle, Part IV


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Posted (edited)

EVIDENCE THAT OSWALD DIDN'T BUY OR MAIL THE MONEY ORDER 

 

Buying and Mailing the Money Order

The next problem with the purchasing of the rifle is that at the date & time Oswald was alleged to have purchased the money order he allegedly used to pay for it and mailed the envelope containing it, he was at work at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall. The money order was stamped that it had been purchased on March 12, 1963 and the envelope it was allegedly mailed in had a postmarked time of 10:30 am, meaning that IF Oswald bought he money order, filled it out and mailed it, he had to have accomplished it between the time the Post Office opened and the postmarked time.

postmark.JPG.00224db92d038981531b4a91ac39f5ff.JPG
 
The problem comes in when we examine Oswald's work timesheet from Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall for March 12, 1963, the date the money order was allegedly purchased. Below is Commission Exhibit 1855 and it shows that DURING THE TIME OSWALD SHOULD HAVE BEEN PURCHASING, FILLING OUT AND MAILING THE MONEY ORDER FOR THE RIFLE, HE WAS AT WORK. ( red box )

Osw_work_sheet2.jpg.11d45d66f73e45dfc09650330e5b131e.jpg
 
In fact, the document shows that excluding Oswald's lunch break from 12:15-12:45pm, EVERY SINGLE MINUTE OF OSWALD'S DAY IS ACCOUNTED FOR FROM 8:00am THROUGH 5:15pm. And there is NO EVIDENCE that Oswald was late for work that day. In fact, according to his boss at JCS, he was "very punctual".

MR. JENNER. Was he regular in his arrival at work?
Mr. GRAEF. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Were his work habits in that connection satisfactory?
Mr. GRAEF. Yes. I would say he was very punctual in his arrival to work.
( 10 H 184 )


There is also NO EVIDENCE that Oswald received a ride to work that day from a co-worker. There IS EVIDENCE from testimony, however, that when co-workers offered rides to Oswald, he declined.

Mr. OFSTEIN. ..............he was also offered rides by Mr. Graef, and I offered him a ride a couple of times either to his home or wherever he wanted to catch a bus, and I know that he always declined my offer of a ride.
Mr. JENNER. What did he say?
 Mr. OFSTEIN. He said; no, he would go ahead and walk, and usually in the evening when he would leave he would say, "I am going up to the post office to pick up my mail, and a couple of times I would offer to give him a ride up this way, as it wasn't much out of my way and I have to come in this direction anyway to Live Oak before I turn, which is only about a block difference, and he always declined to ride and would walk.
( 10 H 205 )

 

And there's no evidence that Oswald left work that day in order to purchase the money order and mail it.
 

Amazingly, not one single witness was ever called to testify about Commission Exhibit 1855 and there is NO MENTION of this document in ANY of the 15 volumes of testimony. In addition, there is NO EVIDENCE that the Main Post Office opened before 8am, allowing Oswald to make his purchase prior to going to work.
In fact, this document found in Box 50 of the HSCA Segregated CIA files shows that the post office window opened at 8:00 am:

 PO_opens_8am.jpg.b9120358a28bee6dbb3402e9a29d5c49.jpg
The fact is there's no evidence that Oswald lied on his timesheet.
There's no evidence that Oswald was late for work on March 12th.
And there's no evidence that Oswald was at the post office at 8:00 am.

We know the post office window opened at 8:00 am and the record shows that Oswald was at work at 8:00 am. The burden of proof is on Oswald's accusers: if they can prove that Oswald was not at work and at the post office at 8 am on March 12, 1963, let's see their evidence.
 

As if Oswald not having the time to purchase, fill out and mail the money order wasn't enough, the next problem is that the money order was not mailed at the post office from where it was purchased, but it was mailed instead THREE POSTAL ZONES AWAY. An examination of the postmark on the envelope indicates that it was mailed in postal zone 12, when Oswald worked and allegedly purchased the money order in postal zone 1. 


989480158_postalzones.thumb.jpg.579c3fb5ea2094651246683c8a560087.jpg

 

And there is NO EVIDENCE that Oswald gave the envelope to someone else to mail.
The Warrenatti have argued that the timesheet was not an accurate depiction of time spent but to argue that is to say that Jagger-Childs-Stovall was intentionally overcharging some customers while undercharging others.
Then the question becomes: if the timesheets are not accurate, why use them at all ? Why not just have employees punch in and punch out ?

Harry Houdini
 

Dallas Postal Inspector Harry Holmes told the Warren Commission that the money order had been purchased early on the morning of March 12, 1963, ( 7 H 295 ) yet there is nothing on the money order that shows the time of day it was sold.
 
osw_money_order.jpg.4abef4a7f67e11eaca8232c76d54b039.jpg
 

The only time mark was the post mark on the envelope. So how did Holmes know what time of day the money order was purchased ?
The Warren Commission never asked him.
The only way he could have known was if he had seen or handled the envelope before the assassination.

 

Processing the Money Order

 

Another problem, this one of the money order itself ( CE 788, below ) is that it contained no stamp from any financial institution. The only stamp on it was a stamp on the back from Klein's Sporting Goods for deposit into its account ( number 50-91144 ) in the First National Bank of Chicago. ( red arrows below )
 
Bank stamps were used on postal money orders in those days as is evidenced by the referral to same ( "bank stamps are not regarded as endorsements" ) on the back of the money order.
The single stamp on the back was identified in testimony as the stamp of Klein's.

 

Mr. BELIN. I hand you what has been marked as Commission Exhibit No. 788, which appears to be a U.S. postal money order payable to the order of Klein's Sporting Goods.....And on the reverse side there appears to be an endorsement of a bank. I wonder if you would read that endorsement, if you would, and examine it, please.
Mr. WALDMAN. This is a stamped endorsement reading "Pay to the order of the First National Bank of Chicago," followed by our account No. 50 space 91144, and that, in turn, followed by "Klein's Sporting Goods, Inc."
Mr. BELIN. Do you know whether or not that is your company's endorsement on that money order?
Mr. WALDMAN. It's identical to our endorsement.
( 7 H 367 )

376082843_moneyorder.thumb.jpg.28adc8e691fd7e5823ea7e85430da454.jpg

Note that the initials and dates on the back of the money order are those of the authorities who handled it after the assassination in order to maintain a chain-of possession. They are not of financial employees who processed it.

The stamp wasn't an endorsement from a bank. It was the endorsement stamp of Klein's Sporting Goods transferring the funds into its bank account. The money order was never paid by any financial institution. Had the money order been processed by the First National Bank of Chicago, the bank would have put its DATED stamp on it.
 

Financial institutions stamp checks and money orders in order to ensure that each institution pays only once on each item. Without the stamp, there's no proof that the money was actually paid by the bank and credited to the customer's account. The stamps also assist law enforcement in tracking finances in criminal cases. This money order should have had on it the DATED stamps of all financial institutions that handled the document.
 

The fact that it doesn't is proof that it never passed through the Federal Reserve System. 
 

Postal Money Orders received by the First National Bank of Chicago, were then sent to the Federal Reserve Bank, also in Chicago. The First National Bank did NOT microfilm money orders. To confound the tracking of the money order, the Federal Reserve Bank in Chicago kept records of money orders for only six months, which means that it too had no record of this particular money order. At the time the money order would have been processed, 75% of money orders were being sent to Washington, D.C. and the other 25 % were being sent to Kansas City, Missouri. Lester Gohr of the Federal Reserve Bank in Chicago provided the FBI with the addresses of both locations. ( CD 7, pg. 193 )

So far, in tracking the money order, this is what we have:

The money order with a stamp for Klein's Sporting Goods for deposit into its account into the First National Bank of Chicago.
No evidence that it was received by the bank.
No evidence that it was received by the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago.
No evidence that it was received by any financial institution in either Kansas City or Washington, D.C.

And yet, this "magic money order" is able to find its way through the Federal Reserve System WITHOUT ANY ENDORSEMENTS from the financial institutions which handled it.
 

Not surprisingly, this money order without bank stamps became part of a deposit which never included it.

TOMORROW: THE DEPOSIT THAT NEVER WAS
 

Edited by Gil Jesus
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It’s great to read articles that add up, make sense - and confirm the theory that you subscribe to of course….

Was the MO forged? There’s an abundance of LHO’s handwriting available and upon comparison of innocent writings and official evidence, a lot seem to match? 
Expertly forged by the same person or was LHO surreptitiously coerced into filling out ID cards, order forms etc.? 

As an example consider these capital Ds, one from the MO, two from a page of his personal ramblings.

 

 

 

B008E423-85C3-42B9-B378-62D217AE50A1.jpeg

05E7CF52-F03D-4F95-9656-D8C56F085285.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Sean Coleman said:

It’s great to read articles that add up, make sense - and confirm the theory that you subscribe to of course….

Was the MO forged? There’s an abundance of LHO’s handwriting available and upon comparison of innocent writings and official evidence, a lot seem to match? 
Expertly forged by the same person or was LHO surreptitiously coerced into filling out ID cards, order forms etc.? 

As an example consider these capital Ds, one from the MO, two from a page of his personal ramblings.

 

 

 

B008E423-85C3-42B9-B378-62D217AE50A1.jpeg

05E7CF52-F03D-4F95-9656-D8C56F085285.jpeg

The handwriting will be addressed in a later part.

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As I mentioned in my comment to Part III, the postal mark on the envelope and the absence of endorsements by federal Reserve member banks are not dispositive. It is possible that the postal mark does not represent where the envelope was mailed but actually may represent the postal machine that was used to process the envelope.

1. At a trial, the Government would have introduced the image of the envelope and postal order as evidence that LHO ordered the rifle. Defense would first object to the evidence as being unreliable because it cant be authenticated (we don’t have originals) as well as chain of custody issues. Presumably, your info would be used to show either that the evidence is inadmissible as unreliable would seek an instruction from the judge to the jury that the questions raised go to the weight they should give to the evidence of purchase. As part of this attack on the credibility of the evidence is Armstrong’s theory that because the postal mark represented the place where the envelope was deposited, Oswald could not have possibly been the one who mailed it.

I have been told my some postmark collectors and historians that the number ‘12’ which appears on the franking/cancellation mark does not indicate where the envelope was deposited but simply that the letter was franked through the number 12 machine at the processing plant, which was, in 1963, within the terminal annex building where Oswald actually bought the money order.  The government would use this to rebut the defense argument.

There are some collectors who have said the mark could be a postal zone because the "12" is facing the same direction as the letters in "Dallas, Tex." (as if the "12" could be a continuation of the "Dallas, Tex." location). Other Dallas postmarks that have a number/letter combination stamped on them (like "3B" and "2B"), those markings are facing the other way, opposite the way that "Dallas, Tex." is engraved on the postmark.  There was a FB post several years ago that said that  Jimmy Orr (a supervisor for the United States Postal Service) said Main Post Office in Dallas would have typically had a large workroom area with multiple cancellation machines in 1963. 

He said the number 12 designates either a "Model G Flyer" machine  mechanized flyer" or perhaps even the more advanced mechanical canceller called the "Mark II". He said it is also quite probable that they had as many as twelve mechanized Mark II cancellation machines. The dies would be nearly identical and would merely indicate the machine number at the Main Office.  He went on to say that in 1963, it was probable that Dallas was shipping everything to the Sectional Center Facility (SCF). It would not have been practical to run a cancellation unit in every corner of the city.

He concluded that one cannot tell if the envelope was dropped into a mail slot downtown or in Oak Cliff. Thus, it is possible that Oswald dropped the letter into a mail slot right there at the Main Post Office in Dallas on 3/12/63 (where he bought the money order right) and that the post office stamped the letter SOMEWHERE ELSE, in some OTHER postal zone (#12). 

He also said that the time of the postmark does NOT indicate what time the letter arrived at the postal facility but simply signifies that it was at least 10:30 am when the envelope went through the cancelling machine. Orr said the time of 10:30 [which is also stamped on Commission Exhibit 773] would indicate the 'clearance' time for delivery. Anything before 10:30 would constitute next day service.

I believe that no conclusion can be drawn about the origin of the letter based simply on the postmark. 

Would be great if someone in the collective here could develop further information on this issue.

2. At a trial, the government would have had Holmes testify to authenticate the order and explain how he found it. Defense would attack its admissibility and Holmes testimony partly because of the lack of endorsement marks on the back. However, there is a question if postal orders would be handled like checks because they are considered cash. Someone would have had to have banking experts testify. If not, the defense would be stuck with the other arguments that you and others have posited. Likely would have been admitted with possibly an instruction to the jury to consider the defense’s arguments  

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

As I mentioned in my comment to Part III, the postal mark on the envelope and the absence of endorsements by federal Reserve member banks are not dispositive. It is possible that the postal mark does not represent where the envelope was mailed but actually may represent the postal machine that was used to process the envelope.

1. At a trial, the Government would have introduced the image of the envelope and postal order as evidence that LHO ordered the rifle. Defense would first object to the evidence as being unreliable because it cant be authenticated (we don’t have originals) as well as chain of custody issues. Presumably, your info would be used to show either that the evidence is inadmissible as unreliable would seek an instruction from the judge to the jury that the questions raised go to the weight they should give to the evidence of purchase. As part of this attack on the credibility of the evidence is Armstrong’s theory that because the postal mark represented the place where the envelope was deposited, Oswald could not have possibly been the one who mailed it.

I have been told my some postmark collectors and historians that the number ‘12’ which appears on the franking/cancellation mark does not indicate where the envelope was deposited but simply that the letter was franked through the number 12 machine at the processing plant, which was, in 1963, within the terminal annex building where Oswald actually bought the money order.  The government would use this to rebut the defense argument.

There are some collectors who have said the mark could be a postal zone because the "12" is facing the same direction as the letters in "Dallas, Tex." (as if the "12" could be a continuation of the "Dallas, Tex." location). Other Dallas postmarks that have a number/letter combination stamped on them (like "3B" and "2B"), those markings are facing the other way, opposite the way that "Dallas, Tex." is engraved on the postmark.  There was a FB post several years ago that said that  Jimmy Orr (a supervisor for the United States Postal Service) said Main Post Office in Dallas would have typically had a large workroom area with multiple cancellation machines in 1963. 

He said the number 12 designates either a "Model G Flyer" machine  mechanized flyer" or perhaps even the more advanced mechanical canceller called the "Mark II". He said it is also quite probable that they had as many as twelve mechanized Mark II cancellation machines. The dies would be nearly identical and would merely indicate the machine number at the Main Office.  He went on to say that in 1963, it was probable that Dallas was shipping everything to the Sectional Center Facility (SCF). It would not have been practical to run a cancellation unit in every corner of the city.

He concluded that one cannot tell if the envelope was dropped into a mail slot downtown or in Oak Cliff. Thus, it is possible that Oswald dropped the letter into a mail slot right there at the Main Post Office in Dallas on 3/12/63 (where he bought the money order right) and that the post office stamped the letter SOMEWHERE ELSE, in some OTHER postal zone (#12). 

He also said that the time of the postmark does NOT indicate what time the letter arrived at the postal facility but simply signifies that it was at least 10:30 am when the envelope went through the cancelling machine. Orr said the time of 10:30 [which is also stamped on Commission Exhibit 773] would indicate the 'clearance' time for delivery. Anything before 10:30 would constitute next day service.

I believe that no conclusion can be drawn about the origin of the letter based simply on the postmark. 

Would be great if someone in the collective here could develop further information on this issue.

2. At a trial, the government would have had Holmes testify to authenticate the order and explain how he found it. Defense would attack its admissibility and Holmes testimony partly because of the lack of endorsement marks on the back. However, there is a question if postal orders would be handled like checks because they are considered cash. Someone would have had to have banking experts testify. If not, the defense would be stuck with the other arguments that you and others have posited. Likely would have been admitted with possibly an instruction to the jury to consider the defense’s arguments  

You need to find better historians. For those of us old enough to remember before the advent of "zip codes" , there were postal zones like Detroit 15, Michigan, New York 18, New York or Los Angeles, 24, California. This is what you wrote on the envelopes when you mailed them. The "12" is a postal zone. It's Dallas 12, Texas. The number has nothing to do with a machine.

https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/postal-zones-came-before-zip-codes

Edited by Gil Jesus
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Posted (edited)

Von Pein was the guy who first brought that up here.

You should place that postal zone link in your article Gil. In fact, please do so.

As per whether the money order was treated as cash or not, I thought  that after a long debate here, we decided that the evidence--that is the regulations we discovered--indicated they were not.  As I recall,  Sandy did a nice job on that issue.

 

Edited by James DiEugenio
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This uncertain paper trail fits in with my narrative of the JFKA, that it was done by lower-level CIA assets. 

I think a better job could have been done on the details, if the JFKA had been planned out in advance by higher-ups. 

There was a lot of impromptu covering-up to do, after the fact. Egads, the autopsy alone...

There was definitely a CIA long-term biography build being done on LHO, including the fake assassination attempt on General Walker. 

John Newman says that LHO biography build was to create a WWIII virus that would stunt any true investigation of the JFKA. "This will lead to nuclear war, so we have to say LHO acted alone." 

As the FBI-Warren Commission was a cover-up, not an investigation, perhaps a mythology has evolved, that of a well-planned and financed, sophisticated JFKA.  

My take is the CIA planned a fake false-flag JFKA, and planned to blame Castro. That plan was piggybacked on by Cubans alright---anti-Castro Cubans. 

My view in no way absolves the CIA. It was their plan that resulted in the JFKA, and they covered it up and wrecked lives and careers along the way.  Arranged for the murder of LHO, and who knows what happened to Jack Ruby. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Von Pein was the guy who first brought that up here.

You should place that postal zone link in your article Gil. In fact, please do so.

 

Thanks for that info. Seeing how there's no such thing as a real, live, honest-to-goodness Von Pein fan and knowing that no sane person would ever parrot anything Von Pein says, now I know who the guy is.

The link's been added on my computer for future reference.

Edited by Gil Jesus
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My father worked for the Post Office before it was the USPS, beginning in 1968. That does NOT make me an expert, but I talked a lot with my dad about his work.

He had told me that EVERY post office ran incoming mail through the ON-SITE cancelling machine [except for items that were tagged HAND CANCEL ONLY]in the USPO days. It wasn't until the USPS days when mail was sent to a sectional or regional PO for cancellation.

So today, in my hometown of Corydon, Indiana, a letter destined for another office within the same county NOW goes to Louisville, KY for cancellation before being routed BACK into the county and to the post office whose mail would have been sent DIRECTLY there back in the 1960s and into the 1970s, on the WAY to the Louisville regional PO.

[Still trying to figure out how that improves USPS efficiency, but someone in DC will certainly claim that it does.]

 

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