Bolton Ford -- What REALLY happened there in 1961!

[Steve Thomas]

2 hours ago, David Boylan said:

I wouldn't trust a word that came of Buchanan's mouth. He was, of course, associated with John Martino, Frank Sturgis, Felipe Vidal, Gerry Hemming and trained at No Name Key with Colonel William Bishop.

David,

I agree with you.

I've had long conversations with Larry Hancock on this, and if I can put words in his mouth, with this "identification" coming five days after the assassination, it was probably part of that whole effort by the DRE and others to tie Oswald to the assassination.

In the process of researching this incident, I ran across a whole slew of references tying Jerry Buchanan to Fairhope, AL of all places. Alpha 66 and Carlos Bringuer also tied in.

Marina Oswald, and LHO's talk to the Jesuit College are on the fringes. I took some notes, and if you don't mind, I'll post them here:

Stovall Exhibit A

(21H596)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1138#relPageId=620&tab=page

is a list of items taken by the police from 2515 W. 5^th St. in Irving, TX.

The last entry on that list is:

a letter to Marina Oswald from Fairhope, AL..

Fairhope's significance seems to revolve around the claims by a Jerry Buchanan that he was in a fight with Lee Harvey Oswald in October, 1962 in Miami and that Oswald was distributing FPCC literature in Miami in March, 1963. At the time, Buchanan was living with a Craig Sheldon, who Frank Sturgis said was the Southeastern Director of the International Anti-Communist Brigade.

(Just my own thoughts, It's possible that Oswald was trying to infiltrate this group the same way he tried in New Orleans with the DRE and Carlos Bringuer.)

FBI Report of SA Joseph T. Boston dated March 30, 1964

Interview of Jerry Buchanan of Fairhope, AL.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142&relPageId=460&search=Fairhope

Buchanan's group, the International Anti-Communist Brigade (of Frank Sturgis fame), had a fight with members of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in the Bay Front Park section of Miami, FL. in October, 1962. Police broke up the fight. Buchanan said Oswald was there. Also recalled that Oswald was in Miami, FL in March, 1963 distributing literature. Buchanan was living with Craig Sheldon in Fairhope.

CD 1020

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11416#relPageId=3&tab=page

CD 1020 page 19

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11416&search=Fairhope#relPageId=21&tab=page

See FBI Report of SA Allison A. Catlin dated June 25, 1964.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=75614&search=Fairhope#relPageId=3&tab=page

Interview of Craig Sheldon. In December, 1962, Sheldon traveled to Puerto Rico, where he met with Bay of Pigs veterans and was raising money for Alpha 66. Sheldon says he is in “regular correspondence” with Antonio Veciana.

Copy of Fairhope Courier article January 2, 1963:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=75614&relPageId=4&search=Fairhope

From Mary Ferrells' Database:

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/marysdb.php?id=1499

BRINGUIER, CARLOS JOSE (DR.)

New Orleans head of Anti-Castro Cuban Student Directorate. 201-289248. Got into a scuffle with Oswald in Aug. 1963 when Oswald was passing out FPCC literature. CIA Memo (502, P. 3) admits past contacts with Bringuier and Clay Shaw. SSCIA Dwyer & Greissing interviewed Bringuier 1/12/76 (MMF 1761-1763) (Address in 2003: 16865 J B Ln, Fairhope, AL 36532-6243 334 928-4741 Wife? Michele NO, this is his son's address and phone. Carlos, Sr., lives across street from son and his phone number is 251 990-5976.

Posted by David Joseph in the Education Forum 1/8/2018

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/24633-oswald-in-alabama/

“ http://www.mobilebaymag.com/Mobile-Bay/January-2014/Sixties-Flashback-Lee-Harvey-Oswald-Visits-Spring-Hill/

Flashback: Lee Harvey Oswald Visits Spring Hill

Originally run in Mobile Bay Monthly's September 1993 issue, this article explores Lee Harvey Oswald's speech at Spring Hill College in July 1963, just months before the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

Lee, Marina and June were three of eight who made the trip to Mobile, piled into a station wagon driven by uncle Charles "Dutz" Murret, accompanied by Dutz's wife Lillian, their daughter Joyce and her two children, all of whom put up at the Palms Motel at Highway 90 and Azalea Road, Uncle Dutz footing the bill.

The court record might also help discount the coincidence that Laurel. Md., where Hawkins reportedly made his threat in earshot of a plainclothes F.B.I. agent, is about a 10 minute drive from the Washington, D.C. suburb of Silver Spring, Md. one of the 13 cities, along with Fairhope, that the F.B.I. report of May 8. 1963 (six weeks before Hawkins' arrest on the causeway) listed as a headquarters for Alpha-66.”

 

Is this the FBI report the Mobile Bay Magazine refers to?

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/belligerence/Alpha-66-12-FBI.pdf

http://cuban-exile.com/doc_326-350/doc0326.html#CHRONOLOGY

Alpha-66:

FAIRHOPE, ALA: By Apr 63 Alpha-66 office in. [R-759-2- 161]

“SHELDON, Craig of Fairhope, Alabama was recruiting for A-66 on Jan 2, 1963. He says he is a member, an ex-marine. [R-759-1-841851”

http://www.mobilebaymag.com/Mobile-Bay/January-2014/Sixties-Flashback-Lee-Harvey-Oswald-Visits-Spring-Hill/

“Addendum on Mobile Anti-Castro Activists

There has never even been alleged, nor does Mobile Bay Magazine in any way now suggest, a connection between Oswald and Mobilians engaged in anti-Castro activities. Yet we think it appropriate to note, as a matter of historical background, that Mobile, as well as New Orleans, was at least up until the 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion a center of active support for anti Castro militants.

A memo filed in the F.B.I. office in Los Angeles dated May 8, 1963 quotes an informant who copied a list of headquarter cities for Alpha 66, the Cuban exile led group that staged regular raids on Castro's Cuba. One of the 13 cities in the U.S., Canada, and South America is Fairhope, Ala.

Fairhope sculptor Craig Sheldon, now in his late 70s, was an adventurous, patriotic WWII veteran and devout anti-Communist in the early 1960s. He has never made a secret of the fact that he was a member of Alpha 66

According to Sheldon, his close friend Kenneth Giddens was a leading fundraiser for the group, helping finance semi truck loads of surplus U.S. military munitions shipped to Cuban dissidents in south Florida. Giddens, who died last year, was founder of WKRG Inc.

Sheldon, who helped purchase and transport arms and engaged in military raids on Cuba, says he stopped such active participation after the Bay of Pigs, frustrated with the incompetence of the CIA and the expatriate Cubans. "I hate the CIA more than I ever did," says Sheldon. "With those fellows, there's never anyone in charge."

The principal leader of the Alpha 66 activities he engaged in, says Sheldon, was Frank Sturgis, who in 1972 was one of four men (two Cuban exiles) arrested in the Watergate burglary of National Democratic Party Headquarters. Sturgis, whom Sheldon still admires for his leadership in the anti Castro cause, says Sheldon, "came through Mobile" as part of Alpha 66 organizing efforts.

A March 30, 1964 report by Mobile F.B.I. agents summarizes an interview, conducted at Sheldon's Fairhope home, with Jerry Buchanan, "a member of the International Anti Communist Brigade," a group founded by Sturgis. Buchanan, living in Fairhope at the time, told agents that members of his group in Miami in 1962 scuffled with a group of Fair Play for Cuba demonstrators that included Oswald. Sheldon, whom the F.B.I. agents said "advised that he is the Southeastern Chairman of the International Anti Communist Brigade," now discounts Buchanan as an "unreliable" individual who "was probably just trying to drum up publicity for himself."

Sturgis, it must also be noted, was accused in 1978 by a House Committee witness, of direct involvement in the JFK assassination. Maria Lorenz, Castro's ex mistress, later Sturgis' lover and operative (she claimed involvement in one assassination attempt on Castro, one of many staged by Operation 40, a Castro assassination cadre to which Sturgis has admitted being a member) told the Committee that around Nov. 15, 1963 she was part of a two car caravan (with rifles and scopes loaded in the trunks) that included Sturgis and Oswald and that drove from Miami to Dallas. The Committee, however, found no substantiation for Lorenz' story.

The Strange Coincidence of James A. Hawkins

The night before Oswald arrived in Mobile for his speech at Spring Hill College, a 22-year-old white male, James A. Hawkins, was arrested on the Mobile Bay Causeway, later convicted, on charges that he'd threatened the life of the president. The threat was made in Laurel, Md., the Secret Service issued a national bulletin, and a Mobile Secret Service agent picked up Hawkins at a gas station Friday night, July 26 (coincidentally, the fifth anniversary of Castros July 26th Revolution).

Like many of the slew of puzzling coincidences related to Oswald and the JFK investigation, this incident cannot be finally put down to coincidence because government records have unaccountably disappeared.

According to the front-page Mobile Press-Register report on Hawkins' arraignment, Mobile Secret Service agent Forrest Guthrie said Hawkins "was unemployed and moving around the country" but "did not reveal how he located the man at the service station."

Almost 30 years later, Guthrie still cannot shed any light on how he came to pick up Hawkins. "Now that you read it [press clipping] to me, I sort of remember the case, but I really can't say how it [the arrest] came about."

As to the coincidence of Oswald being in town that weekend, Guthrie said it was the first he'd heard about it. "We didn't know anything about Oswald at that time," Guthrie said, "although the F.B.I. had information on him, as it has come out since then."

Attorney H. Albert Korn, who represented Hawkins in Maryland federal court, does not recall anything about an arrest being made in Mobile or anywhere else outside the jurisdiction of Maryland. He does recall that the threat his client was alleged to have made occurred "at a gas station" and "happened to have been made to an F.B.I. agent in plain clothes."

"It's been a long time," said Korn, but as I recall, what he was alleged to have said was something along the lines of, 'I'm going to get that n loving president."

Korn waived a jury trial, pleaded his client not guilty by reason of insanity and called as his expert witness "one of the top forensic psychiatrists in the county," says Korn. But Dr. Manfred Guttmacher proved disappointing on cross examination. "He backed off' his direct testimony, says Korn, and "on cross said he could not really give an opinion" that Hawkins was not culpable. Hawkins was sentenced to three years.

Reports by Guttmacher and the prosecution's psychiatrist might tell a lot about just who Hawkins was and the nature of his threat against the president. And court records could show whether Hawkins ever posted the $5,000 bail set in Mobile prior to his indictment in Maryland one month after the Kennedy assassination. But those reports and all other records of the trial testimony, are missing from the Federal Court Records Center and the National Archives, where they should be stored. All that could be found was the docket sheet entries.

According to U.S. District Court of Maryland Chief Deputy Clerk Gary Sapperstein, the disappearance of Hawkins' records from both the archives and court records "is very unusual."

The court record might also help discount the coincidence that Laurel. Md., where Hawkins reportedly made his threat in earshot of a plainclothes F.B.I. agent, is about a 10 minute drive from the Washington, D.C. suburb of Silver Spring, Md. one of the 13 cities, along with Fairhope, that the F.B.I. report of May 8. 1963 (six weeks before Hawkins' arrest on the causeway) listed as a headquarters for Alpha-66.”

Cuban Information Archives:

http://cuban-exile.com/doc_326-350/doc0326.html

ALPHA-66 (Alfa 66) Chronology & Background May 1962 to Nov 1964

FAIRHOPE, ALA: By Apr 63 Alpha-66 office in. [R-759-2-161] ADD: 457 OAK STREET [R-759-3-25] May 63 [R-759-3-55]

1963 MAR 17/18 A raid at Isabel de Sagua firing at a Russian Technical Camp located on shore and a Russian ship which was at sea. Two 20-foot boats with two movable 20 mm cannons were used along with BAR's and M-1's. Each boat held 12-15 men. [R-759-1-115/125] One boat was a wooden 25-foot speedboat, fiberglass covered, with a 95 horsepower Mercury inboard engine, and the other was a 21 foot boat with two inboard engines capable of doing bet. 30 and 40 mph. [R-759-2-24C] Six Russians were wounded. Damage on the island was slight. [R-759-1-125] An informant confirms the Miami Herald account printed on Mar 19. [R-759-2-20] The Herald reports some Russians killed. [R-759-2-24C] The New York Standard reports that the raiding party entered the harbor, stopped a Russian freighter and exchanged gunfire. Two raiders were wounded. [R-759-2-65]

http://cuban-exile.com/doc_326-350/doc0326.html

FAIRHOPE, ALA: By Apr 63 Alpha-66 office in. [R-759-2-161] ADD: 457 OAK STREET [R-759-3-25] May 63 [R-759-3-55]

CD 1020 p. 14.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11416#relPageId=16&tab=page

"He (Jim Buchanan, brother of Jerry Buchanan) advised that Jerry Buchanan would be available for a few days following the day of interview (April 30, 1964) at 457 Oak St. Fairhope, Alabama, the residence of Craig Sheldon, whom he described as Chairman of the International Anti-Communist Brigade in Alabama."

CD 1020 p. 13

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11416#relPageId=15&tab=page

A Cuban exile named Sanchez told Jim Buchanan that Jerry Buchanan had been in a fight with Oswald near the Miami River in March, 1963 in March, 1963.

p. 14 Sanchez had told Jim Buchanan that, “...Oswald had apparently introduced himself to Jerry Buchanan and the Cuban exiles near the Miami River dock by his true name, Oswald.”

Allegedly, Jerry Buchanan and Oswald get into a fight on a dock when Oswald insists on boarding a boat headed out on anti-Castro (bombing?) mission to Cuba.

And pp. Following

http://cuban-exile.com/doc_326-350/doc0326.html

“It is the custom of the SNFE to anchor their boats in the vicinity of the 17th street bridge in Miami, according to U.S. Customs in April 1963. [R-759-2-17]”

Is this the boat Oswald tried to board, and did he inform on Buchanan?

The News-Herald from Mansfield, Ohio · April 3, 1963 Page 24

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/45297639/

Friday 24--NEWS-HERALD W.J.. April 3. 1963 Raider denies violation of neutrality law. EDITOR'S NOTE~The following exclusive interview with Jerry 'Buchanan was obtained by his brother, James Buchanan, reporter for the Pompano Beach Sun Sentinel, and made available to the Associated Press.

By JAMES BUCHANAN POMPANO BEACH. Fla. (AP) --The American who acted as spokesman for a band of anli-Castro sea raiders in securing their release from British custody told me he did not feel he had broken any neutrality law. Jerry Buchanan, 24. said in an exclusive interview by telephone; from Nassau Monday night, the raiders' boats, Violin III, had not been armed or manned in the country. The 35-foot Violin III was captured at Norman's Cay, a tiny is land in the Bahamas. Buchanan said Magistrate John Baily freed the band of 17 men and releases their boat with a decree that they lad not violated any law in British :territory," Buchanan sad. "_____ went So the boat, where it been there since Saturday morning waiting for us to come in. They knew all about us. "The police came out of the building and said, 'Is your name Buchanan?' They placed both of us under detention." He reported, a platoon of Bahamian police led by a British officer ordered the others to come ashore Buchanan said The Violin II was not captured at sea as reported and that the British frigate credited with the capture steamed into the area Sunday afternoon "The police searched the boa and captured a few of the boys who were well hidden from view. The boat put into the island to refuel, Buchanan said, and he and one of the Cubans aboard under command of Maj. Eveho Duquc went ashore unarmed. "We approached a barracks type building where we encountered a detachment of Bahamian police.

"They also found the arms which we had stored on the boat. "Police told us they had us under surveillance all Sunday evening while we were trying to dock. After finding the arms they immediately announced we were being detained. The police refused to use the term 'arrest.' They said we were merely 'detained. " Buchanan said a high official of the Bahamas government, whom he declined to identify, arrived and said he was acting as a delgate from London, representing the Admiralty. "Prior to the official's arrival, however, the frigate was spotted off the east coast of the key," Buchanan said. The navy came ashore in three landing launches. One of these carried a platoon of men completely equipped with machine guns and ready to fight. The police then turned us over to the navy." "I was flown to Nassau at 7 .m. Sunday. I went to court Monday afternoon and we're now out n bond. We're supposed to be put back aboard the boat and escorted out of British waters with out equipment, guns and any of our 'personal effects."

Kingsport Times from Kingsport, Tennessee · April 2, 1963 Page 1

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/78783432/

U.S. CONFISCATES EXILE BOAT British Halt Cuba-Bound Raiders MIAMI, Ffa. (AP)-U.S. customs agents confiscated a Cuban exile boat, British police captured a band of 17 sea raiders and a companion group of commandos continued toward Cuba in a series of lightning-like developments. The exile boat, captured in Miami, was "outfitted for aggression," supervising customs agent Joseph Fortier announced Monday night. He said the 40-foot yacht Alisan was seized Sunday night at North Miami Beach with two homemade bombs and a 20-millimeter cannon on board. The boat's owner, Dr. Santiago Alvarez, said he did not know who had been using the boat or where it was used. No charges were filed. Fortier said the boat was empty when agents boarded it. A group of commandos was refitted (refitting?) nearing Cuba by boat on a mission to fight any Communist boats encountered and to contact rebels inside Cuba. A companion boat with 17 men aboard was halted at Norman's Key, a tiny island in the Exurna chain 200 miles north of the Cuban coast and 350 miles south of Miami. British police took the men into custody, including an American Ex-Kingsport Resident Leader Of Sea Raiders. EDITOR'S NOTE-The leader of the Cuba-bound "sea raiders" halted by the British yesterday was Jerry Buchanan, who was reared in Kingsport. His family lived at 1853 Buckles Drive until 1956, and he attended Long Island Elementary.

(That damned Tennessee connection again smile)

Lots of documents here on Alexander Rorke:

ALEXANDER RORKE: FRANK FIORINI STURGIS PUT A BOMB ON ...

https://www.scribd.com/.../ALEXANDER-RORKE-FRANK-FIORINI-STURGIS-PUT-...

Sheldon's Castle Origins -- About Craig Sheldon

http://fairhopecastle.com/Craig_Sheldon.html

Before you can really begin the story of Fairhope's Story Book Castles, you need to first meet the Man behind the story. In 1940, Craig Sheldon married Annie "Butch Sheldon, and they moved to Fairhope to raise their family at the close of World War II.

'Three children, Craig Sheldon Jr, Susan Megrez, and Pagan were born to the couple in Fairhope. Daughter Suzan Megrez Rudolf inhabits the Sheldon Castle with her husband John to this day. While Daughter, Pagan Mosher inhabits the adjacent Mosher Castle.”

“The tower was built in the 1950s with the help of his young son, Craig, Jr. (then called Mac).”

http://www.archives.state.al.us/findaids/v23056.pdf

CRAIG T. SHELDON ANTI-CASTRO COLLECTION, 1955-2012

Finding aid

Call number: LPR208 Extent: 2.2 cubic ft. (3 archives boxes and 1 oversize box.)

One folder contains a1993 article about a visit Lee Harvey Oswald made to Spring Hill College in July 1963 to make a speech.

to return to the ADACAT catalog record, click here:

http://adahcat.archives.alabama.gov:81/vwebv/holdingsInfo?bibId=23056

I think I may have answered the last entry in Stovall's Exhibit A – list of property taken from 2515 W. 5^th St. in Irving.

The last entry reads: letter addressed to Marina Oswald from Fairhope, AL.

In the DPD Archives, Box 6, Folder# 6, Item# 7, page 12 there is this entry:

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box6.htm

 

Letter (3 pages and envelope) Marina Oswald at New Orleans from Loyda Ville in Russian (Bottlees Wharf, Ala,)

Irving

According to Google Maps, there is no Bottlees Wharf, but there is a Battles Wharf, AL.

Battles Wharf is an unincorporated area in Baldwin Co., AL. Just south of Fairhope.

Fairhope is also located in Baldwin County.

 

I can envision a letter from Battles Wharf being postmarked Fairhope.

 

CD 206 is a Report of Robert Gemberling dated January 7, 1964.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10673#relPageId=1&tab=page

Beginning on page 373, there is a description of Russian language documents and papers seized from the residence of Ruth Paine at 2515 W. 5^th St. in Irving on November 22, 1963. These papers were translated by SA Anatole Boguslav.

On page 382, there is a description of Item# 8. . It says that Item# 8 is “A three page letter from Boris Ivanovich Fitzpatrick (apparently) dated August 7, 1963. The letter is written on the stationary of Loyola Villa, Battles Wharf, Alabama. The writer thanks Marina for the interesting conversation they had the week before.... Also expressed appreciation to Lee Oswald for his lecture delivered at the seminary.” Although the writer did not agree with Lee Oswald's conclusions, the seminarians respected him for his idealism and the truth of his research.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10673&relPageId=387&search=%22Battles_Wharf%22

I'm not sure where the name “Boris Ivanovich Fitzpatrick” came from, and why his name would say (apparently) after it, but Robert Fitzpatrick was interviewed by the FBI on November 30, 1963. You can read his recollections of Marina's visit here:

Recollections of Robert Fitzpatrick

(25H924) CE 2549 CD 24 pp. 1-17

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1141#relPageId=954

 

Steve Thomas

[David Boylan]

Steve,

That's some great research! There are some researchers who speculate that Jerry Buchanan was the Umbrella Man FWIW.

[Jim Hargrove]

Steve,

This is probably all old news to you on the Buchanan front [I'll try to catch up over the next week or so], but....

From the H&L book:

Three days later (April 1) the New York Times reported, "Seventeen heavily
armed Cuban exiles planning to attack a Soviet tanker off Cuba were seized yesterday
by a British force on a solitary islet in the Bahamas chain. The capture was apparently
the first result of an agreement worked out late last week by Washington and London
to cooperate in preventing raids by opponents of Premier Fidel Castro. Cuban exiles
reacted with a mixture of anger, defiance and gloom." The raiding party was led by Jerry
Buchanan, a member of Frank Fiorini Sturgis' CIA sponsored International Anti-Com­-
munist Brigade. [ H&L p. 524]

This story, if true, clearly puts "Lee Harvey Oswald" in Florida, just as Marita Lorenz and others said.

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Jim Hargrove
Misspelled Lorenz

[John Butler]

 

I have read through this report several times.  Then a couple of things struck that I had not thought about in this way.

"Since there is a possibility that an imposter is using Oswald's birth certificate, ...."

Did J. Edgar mean that someone in Russia could acquire this birth certificate, or was the person currently in control of the birth certificate an imposter?  What if the later part is true?  This would indicate J. Edgar knew about the false defector program and the double Oswalds.  Would he have known about Harvey being an imposter?

This idea may be given some credence since J. Edgar sent a copy to the Director of Naval Intelligence for his information.  The ONI were the folks running the false defector program with the CIA.

J. Edgar may have known about the intended refugee use by the OSS/CIA early on.  None other than William Harvey, when he was an FBI agent, may have acquired that information when he interrogated the Red Queen, Elizabeth Bentley sometime in 1945-46 (the exact date skips my mind). Elizabeth Bentley knew everything the communist were doing in the WWII years in America.  Her major espionage agents were in the OSS.  Her interrogation (revelation that the OSS was filled with communist agents) eventually caused Truman to junk OSS and try to find something knew. 

There is a good possibility that this is nonsense.  But, it should be looked at and thought about.    

Edited February 2, 2022 by John Butler

[Jim Hargrove]

23 hours ago, John Butler said:

Did J. Edgar mean that someone in Russia could acquire this birth certificate, or was the person currently in control of the birth certificate an imposter?  What if the later part is true?  This would indicate J. Edgar knew about the false defector program and the double Oswalds.  Would he have known about Harvey being an imposter?

This idea may be given some credence since J. Edgar sent a copy to the Director of Naval Intelligence for his information.  The ONI were the folks running the false defector program with the CIA.

John,

I hadn’t thought much about Hoover’s Navy Intell referral, but now that you bring it up it does seem interesting.  It could be argued that since Oswald's paperwork was still in the Navy Reserves on the date Hoover wrote the letter (the USMC dishonorable discharge came about three months later), it would be natural for Hoover to inform the USMC/Navy about his concerns.

OTOH, it is interesting that he chose Naval Intelligence to copy.  I don’t know if choosing Naval Intel for the correspondence would be out of the ordinary for this sort of thing.  If it was unusual, then this is interesting new evidence about what Hoover knew, even in 1960, about Oswald’s false defection.

Recall that Oswald allegedly surrendered his passport to the U.S. Embassy in Moscow in 1959.  Not sure exactly when he got it back, but John A. wrote in H&L:

When the Bureau returned Harvey Oswald's possessions to the Dallas Police on November 26, [1963] two passports were listed on the joint DPD/FBI inventory (CE 2113)--item 446 (the 1963 passport) and item 449 (the 1959 passport). The 1959 passport, which was not initialed by Dallas Police detectives, listed on their inventory, or photographed on November 22/23, was added to the inventory between November 23 to November 26 by the FBI in Washington, DC.

It is also interesting to note that there was no reason why a new passport was needed by Oswald in 1963.  The 1959 passport was still valid for several more years.

I’ve often wondered about when Hoover learned of Oswald’s spy status and the double Oswald project.  My bet is that he knew about both aspects well before JFK was killed.
 

[John Butler]

59 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

OTOH, it is interesting that he chose Naval Intelligence to copy.  I don’t know if choosing Naval Intel for the correspondence would be out of the ordinary for this sort of thing.  If it was unusual, then this is interesting new evidence about what Hoover knew, even in 1960, about Oswald’s false defection.

I would think that ordinary types of information would be just sent to the Dept. of the Navy in an ordinary situation.  However, Oswald defecting was not an ordinary situation.  This is indicated by the section of the FBI dealing with it.  Internal Security- Russia.  The letter was originally sent to the State Department.  It should have been copied to the Navy Dept.  Hoover might have known this involved spying, hence ONI.

 

59 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

OTOH, it is interesting that he chose Naval Intelligence to copy.  I don’t know if choosing Naval Intel for the correspondence would be out of the ordinary for this sort of thing.  If it was unusual, then this is interesting new evidence about what Hoover knew, even in 1960, about Oswald’s false defection.

How could one determine that?  That is the question.  The only thing I can think of is the two Oswalds went into the military at different times.  There is evidence to suggest this.  They went to different training centers.  There is evidence to suggest this.  So, ONI would have two sets of paperwork for the two Oswalds that would have to be merged.  That would be simple enough.  Simply destroy Lee Oswald's records from the eastern training center at Parris Island.  Then you are left with Harvey's in California.

A record of Lee Oswald knowing other Marines at Parris Island and those other Marines saying he was there.  Would that come to the attention of the FBI.  It might when Oswald was in New York after Harvey went to Russia.  HIs political activities there could have roused the interest of the FBI.  I think this would come after Harveys trip to Russia.

The letter is dated June 3, 1960.  That is about 9 or so months after Harvey went to Russia.  That's plenty of time for J. Edgar to investigate.  I am not recalling the date when Lee Oswald was in New York with Steve Landesberg.  But, one said he was receiving postcards from Lee in Europe at about the same time.  I probably need to go back and re-read that material.

59 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

I’ve often wondered about when Hoover learned of Oswald’s spy status and the double Oswald project.  My bet is that he knew about both aspects well before JFK was killed.
 

Hoover may have been a despicable person, but that wouldn't stop him from being a top notch investigator.  I also think he was in the know.  But, how does one prove that?  The only suggestion I have is the New York affair.  Also, he may have come to the attention of the FBI in anti-Castro activities in La. and Fla.  If so, things like Bolton Ford may have triggered that suspicion in the June 3, 1960 letter. 

If that's the case, then Hoover may well have thought Harvey was an imposter.  If you go back to the time of William Harvey being in the FBI then there is a possibility that information about communist spying and knowledge of what the OSS/CIA was doing may have come to Hoover.  Hoover may have been knowledgeable for a long time.  But, how does one prove that.   

Edited February 3, 2022 by John Butler

[Steve Thomas]

On 2/1/2022 at 6:36 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

Steve,

This is probably all old news to you on the Buchanan front [I'll try to catch up over the next week or so], but....

From the H&L book:

Three days later (April 1) the New York Times reported, "Seventeen heavily
armed Cuban exiles planning to attack a Soviet tanker off Cuba were seized yesterday
by a British force on a solitary islet in the Bahamas chain. The capture was apparently
the first result of an agreement worked out late last week by Washington and London
to cooperate in preventing raids by opponents of Premier Fidel Castro. Cuban exiles
reacted with a mixture of anger, defiance and gloom." The raiding party was led by Jerry
Buchanan, a member of Frank Fiorini Sturgis' CIA sponsored International Anti-Com­-
munist Brigade. [ H&L p. 524]

This story, if true, clearly puts "Lee Harvey Oswald" in Florida, just as Marita Lorenz and others said.

 

Jim,

I personally believe that the "Sanchez" identified in the Buchanan documents is the wrong Sanchez.

And, the Buchanan raid involved a group I had never heard of before - Los Pinos Nuevos (The New Pines).

Commission Document 1020 - FBI O'Connor Report of 11 May 1964 re: Oswald - Russia/Cuba

Page 19

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11416&search=Fairhope#relPageId=21&tab=page

I personally believe that the "Sanchez" in question is Fernando Sanchez Garcia.

Cuban Information Archives:

http://cuban-exile.com/doc_326-350/doc0326.html

ALPHA-66 (Alfa 66) Chronology & Background May 1962 to Nov 1964

FAIRHOPE, ALA: By Apr 63 Alpha-66 office in. [R-759-2-161] ADD: 457 OAK STREET [R-759-3-25] May 63 [R-759-3-55]

SANCHEZ GARCIA, Fernando, an accountant of Los Naranjos 702, apt 3B, Santurce, PR [R-759-1-108]

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/180-10144-10153.pdf

CIA Synopsis of Antonio Veciana Blanch (201-312966)

RIF# 180-10144-10153

“11/16/62 Indicates rift in Alpha-66. Only Jeronimo Estevez, Salomon Bender, Fernando Sanchez, and Israel Gonzalez still allied with Veciana.”

MEMO FOR THE RECORD RE THE BOAT M/V VIOLIN III AND ALEXANDER IRWIN ROR November 25, 1962

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=55784#relPageId=4&tab=page (page 4)

“The following subjects served as crew members on board the M/V Violin III:”

From SAC Miami, to Bureau dated 4/29/66

Principal anti-Castro organizations in the Miami area:

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32322734.pdf

Page 7

Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

John,

It is also interesting to note that there was no reason why a new passport was needed by Oswald in 1963.  The 1959 passport was still valid for several more years.

 

Jim,

If indeed Oswald (or someone claiming to be Oswald intended to transit Mexico on his way to Cuba and/or Russia, would either of those two countries have demanded a more recent passport? One issued within the last three years or so?

I don't know what their requirements at the time were.

Steve Thomas

[Jim Hargrove]

Steve,

I can usually follow your posts with little difficulty, but I’m having a hard time figuring out how this “Sanchez” fellow fits into the Acosta/Buchanan story.  The whole saga is suspect to me because it seems to present the JFK assassination patsy-to-be as a pro-Castro sympathizer nearly two months before he actually moved to NOLA for no particular reason other than to play that role.  The Buchanan report may have been part of the smear Cuba/Commies/Oswald campaign that went into such high gear immediately after the assassination, but it also seems a possible precursor to the NOLA charade beginning less than two months later.  Any thoughts about that?

Oswald’s 1963 passport issuance while the 1959 passport was still valid is also puzzling.  In my travels, I’ve noticed that a number of countries caution against stays on a passport expiring in less than 6 months, but that is the most stringent restriction I can recall, other than nations, such as Russia, that require visas for visitors from the U.S.

[Jim Hargrove]

23 hours ago, John Butler said:

How could one determine that?  That is the question.  The only thing I can think of is the two Oswalds went into the military at different times.  There is evidence to suggest this.  They went to different training centers.  There is evidence to suggest this.  So, ONI would have two sets of paperwork for the two Oswalds that would have to be merged.  That would be simple enough.  Simply destroy Lee Oswald's records from the eastern training center at Parris Island.  Then you are left with Harvey's in California.

A record of Lee Oswald knowing other Marines at Parris Island and those other Marines saying he was there.  Would that come to the attention of the FBI.  It might when Oswald was in New York after Harvey went to Russia.  HIs political activities there could have roused the interest of the FBI.  I think this would come after Harveys trip to Russia.

The letter is dated June 3, 1960.  That is about 9 or so months after Harvey went to Russia.  That's plenty of time for J. Edgar to investigate.  I am not recalling the date when Lee Oswald was in New York with Steve Landesberg.  But, one said he was receiving postcards from Lee in Europe at about the same time.  I probably need to go back and re-read that material.

John,

Wish we knew how Hoover reacted to other “defectors” to USSR, like Webster, and exactly who he alerted about them.

I also can’t remember how Parris Island fits into this (is there another name for the base there?), but John A. believes that when Lee HARVEY Oswald entered the Marines on Oct 24, 1956 in San Diego, LEE Harvey Oswald was at El Toro, about 50 miles to the north.   After a leave in early 1957, LEE Harvey Oswald moved on to Keesler Air Force Base in Biloxi via a brief stop in Jacksonville, FL.

The Landesberg/L’eandes/Oswald shenanigans in NYC occurred in very late 1961 and early 1962, so that shouldn’t have had any effect on Hoover’s imposter memo.  But as you say, the Marine activities may well have attracted his notice, and the so-called defection certainly would have.

The Bolton Ford incident occurred Jan. 20, 1961, and therefore shouldn’t have been part of Hoover’s calculus in the memo. I agree that he was a smart SOB, and I can't help but wonder how much he knew before 11/22/63.  I'll bet it was a lot, including the fact that "Oswald" had been to Cuba several times but, according to Hoover, wouldn't tell them why he went there.  According to the Official Story, of course, "Oswald" never set foot in Cuba.
 

[Steve Thomas]

1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Steve,

I can usually follow your posts with little difficulty, but I’m having a hard time figuring out how this “Sanchez” fellow fits into the Acosta/Buchanan story.  The whole saga is suspect to me because it seems to present the JFK assassination patsy-to-be as a pro-Castro sympathizer nearly two months before he actually moved to NOLA for no particular reason other than to play that role.

 

Jim,

I'm sure it was part of that whole Oswald as FBI spy agent-provocateur scenario that was being floated after the assassination; ala going to Carlos Bringuer's and offering to help train some exiles and leaving behind his Marine Manual.

The whole time he was posing as a Fair Play for Cuba guy, he was also showing up at Bringuer's, seen at training.camps, trying to go on raiding parties, seen at the SNFE house on Harlandale, etc. The word on the street was that he was an FBI spy (at least that's what Sylvia Odio was told).

In the Spring of 1963, the FBI was directed to raid the training camps, disrupt the Cuban raiding parties, and the exiles were forbidden to leave Miami. The exiles were pissed and were looking for ways to get back at the FBI and the CIA.

That's why, I personally think, that Veciana double-crossed David Atlee Phillips.

Steve Thomas

[John Butler]

2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

I also can’t remember how Parris Island fits into this (is there another name for the base there?)

Jim,

Too true.  I wrote earlier I needed to review this material.  You said,

“I also can’t remember how Parris Island fits into this (is there another name for the base there?), but John A. believes that when Lee HARVEY Oswald entered the Marines on Oct 24, 1956 in San Diego, LEE Harvey Oswald was at El Toro, about 50 miles to the north.”

The U. S. Marine Corps has two training areas in the Southeastern US.  This is the Recruit Depot at Parris Island, SC and another training center at Camp Lejeune, NC.  I was confusing Parris Island with Camp Lejeune.

I wrote this in an earlier comment. 

“Jim Rizzuto (Steven H. Landesberg, the student) said that he met Steve L'eandes (Steven R. Landesberg, the actor) and Lee Oswald in the Marine Corps at Camp Lejune in the summer of 1956. 

The summer of 1956 should be stressed.

I believe this statement by Rizzuto has a more than likely chance to be true based on FBI performance.  So, the statement above allows me to conclude with other information from the Harvey and Lee site (Lee Oswald’s PFC rank in the fall of 1956) that Harvey and Lee entered military service at different times and left the service at different times.

To me this clears up the problem of Lee and Harvey leaving the Marine Corps at different times.  They joined at different times.  Lee Oswald at age 16 and Harvey at age 17.  This is based on 3 year contracts with the service.

Lee Oswald:  About March or slightly later, 1956 to March, 1959.

Harvey Oswald:  October 24, 1956 to September 11, 1959.”

And this, the Ransberger incident, is for the Lee Oswald service date,

““In the fall of 1956, while HARVEY Oswald and Allen Felde were stationed at San Diego, LEE Oswald was at the Marine Corps Air Facility at El Toro, CA, 10 miles south of Camp Pendleton. It was in El Toro that Sergeant Wallace Ransberger first met Private First Class LEE Oswald, and a year later associated with him at Atsugi, Japan. Ransberger and LEE Oswald were assigned to the same unit and their duties were to furnish repair parts for vehicles and generators. In early 1957 Sergeant Donald Goodwin was assigned to Camp Pendleton and supervised a group of 20 men in the 5th Marine division, one of whom was radio communicator LEE Oswald, Private 1st class.”

These records strongly suggest that Lee Oswald was already in the service when Harvey joined in Sept., 1956.  There are two considerations here.  First, Lee Oswald being a PFC/E2 takes time to arrive at that promotion position.  Harvey Oswald was promoted to PFC/E2 on May 1, 1957.  Secondly, the Corps trains people just as the Army does, for a particular job.  Lee Oswald in the fall of 1956 was working at repairing parts for vehicles and generators.  Training for aircraft maintenance probably took at least 6 weeks plus 4 months of infantry training.  This says that Lee was in the service some time before Harvey.

When a person enlists in the Marine Corps, he can expect to do his training at either the East Coast or West Coast training facilities.  This hasn’t changed since the days of Harvey and Lee.  If a recruit lives east of the Mississippi, he can expect to do training in either Camp Lejeune, NC or Parris Island, SC.  On the other hand, if a recruit lives west of the Mississippi, he can expect to do his training at the Marine Corps Recruit Depot at San Diego, CA.

Lee joined the Marines in New Orleans sometime in or around March, 1956.  This means he was sent to either Camp Lejeune, NC, or Parris Island, SC.

Harvey joined the Marines in Ft. Worth in October, 1956.  This means he was sent to San Diego for training.

How does one know that Lee Oswald joined the Marine Corps sometime around March, 1956?  It is his date of discharge from the service.  Lee Harvey Oswald has two separation dates from service.  Sept. 11, 1959 for Harvey and March, 1959 for Lee.  That is not possible for a single person except under extraordinary circumstances.  The Gorsky incident gives us an idea when Lee left the service.

From David Joseph’s timeline:

“In 1959 Major William P. Gorsky was the Assistant Provost Marshall at the Marine Corps Air Station (the jet base) at El Toro. According to Major Gorsky's files, Lee Harvey Oswald was discharged from the Marine base in March 1959.”    

To my mind, the way to look at Harvey and Lee’s military service and records, is to key in on the date of March, 1956, possibly March 19, 1959.  This suggests the two Oswalds entered the service at different times and places.  This would create two sets of records for the two.  The merging of these records begins after Harvey enters the service in Sept., 1956.

Hope this clears up my faulty memory.

Edited February 4, 2022 by John Butler

[Jim Hargrove]

9 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Jim,

I'm sure it was part of that whole Oswald as FBI spy agent-provocateur scenario that was being floated after the assassination; ala going to Carlos Bringuer's and offering to help train some exiles and leaving behind his Marine Manual.

The whole time he was posing as a Fair Play for Cuba guy, he was also showing up at Bringuer's, seen at training.camps, trying to go on raiding parties, seen at the SNFE house on Harlandale, etc. The word on the street was that he was an FBI spy (at least that's what Sylvia Odio was told).

In the Spring of 1963, the FBI was directed to raid the training camps, disrupt the Cuban raiding parties, and the exiles were forbidden to leave Miami. The exiles were pissed and were looking for ways to get back at the FBI and the CIA.

That's why, I personally think, that Veciana double-crossed David Atlee Phillips.

Steve Thomas

Steve,

My apologies, but getting up to speed on this Sanchez fellow has, for some reason, been difficult for me.  I missed or completely forgot your post near the end of page 2 of this thread which indicated that Oswald argued with Jerry Buchanan because he (Oswald) wanted to embark on a ship destined for an anti-Castro Cuban operation.  This makes perfect sense for the anti-Castro Oswald who appeared for nearly two years right here in the U.S. of A.  before the pro-Castro Oswald returned from Russia and soon showed up at Shaw’s International Trade Mart in New Orleans.  

The two FBI reports on Buchanan of March 30, 1964 and April 30, 1964 tell remarkably different stories about Oswald’s position on Castro, do they not?  Almost seems like two different people. My bet is that the March FBI report was post-dated to appear earlier than the April report.  Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.

8 hours ago, John Butler said:

The U. S. Marine Corps has two training areas in the Southeastern US.  This is the Recruit Depot at Parris Island, SC and another training center at Camp Lejeune, NC.  I was confusing Parris Island with Camp Lejeune.

I wrote this in an earlier comment. 

“Jim Rizzuto (Steven H. Landesberg, the student) said that he met Steve L'eandes (Steven R. Landesberg, the actor) and Lee Oswald in the Marine Corps at Camp Lejune in the summer of 1956. 

John,

I’d completely forgotten about the L’eandes/Landesberg recollection of meeting Oswald at Camp Lejeune.  This case is complicated and my brain is getting any younger.  More ASAP.

[John Butler]

13 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

I’d completely forgotten about the L’eandes/Landesberg recollection of meeting Oswald at Camp Lejeune.  This case is complicated and my brain is getting any younger.  More ASAP.

Way to complicated.  I just backed up files for the forum and there are something like 36000+ Oswald files.  Way to much for my poor brain.

As far as Leandes/Landesberg, Ransberger, and Gorsky, these are facts from Harvey and Lee.  It is how you interpret those facts which leads to the conclusion that Lee Oswald entered the service first and Harvey followed months later.  They also indicate that Lee took training in the Eastern US and Harvey in the Western Us.

Facts such as Lee Oswald was a PFC in the fall of 1956 and Harvey was promoted to PFC on May 1, 1957.  As far as I know there was no reduction in rank to account for Harvey taking 9-10 months to become a PFC.  In fact you could not reduce his rank from PVT/E1 to something lower.  This little factoid would tell the public that Harvey must have been a real "dud" by taking so long to reach a higher rank.  More ammunition for the anomie ridden Lone Nut assassin story.

It's a bit far fetched, but it could be a clue on Harvey's future use to the ONI/CIA.  

Edited February 5, 2022 by John Butler

[John Butler]

On 2/4/2022 at 9:11 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

The Bolton Ford incident occurred Jan. 20, 1961, and therefore shouldn’t have been part of Hoover’s calculus in the memo. I agree that he was a smart SOB, and I can't help but wonder how much he knew before 11/22/63.  I'll bet it was a lot, including the fact that "Oswald" had been to Cuba several times but, according to Hoover, wouldn't tell them why he went there.  According to the Official Story, of course, "Oswald" never set foot in Cuba.

For some reason or another I see Lee Oswald doing the heavy lifting, dangerous jobs, while Harvey is less exposed.  I believe both were in New Orleans doing various things and that accounts for some of the confusion concerning what Oswald was doing there.  Oswald had multiple jobs while being there.  Which were carried out by Lee and which were carried out by Harvey?  Or, did they work the same jobs together?

What was Oswald doing in New Orleans?

1.  Set up the FPCC and establish contact with pro-Castro forces- pass out leaflets

2.  Work for Guy Bannister in identifying Communists in New Orleans

3.  Work with anti-Castro forces- work in training camps

4.  Monitor and help Judyth Baker/cancer research project

5.  Get young homosexuals out of jail for Shaw and Ferrie

6.  Stay in contact with Mafia elements in New Orleans

7.  Promote Marxist values on TV and through lectures

8.  Work for the CIA

9.  Be an informant for the FBI

10. Make mysterious trips to Tennessee?  Michigan?  Mexico?  For what reasons?

11. Try to get a job at a mental health facility.

I can't think of anything else.  I am sure there is more. 

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by John Butler