Dr. Louis Jolyon West, Ruby and More

[Ron Bulman]

Jolly interviewed Timothy McVeigh shortly after his arrest for the Oklahoma City bombing and several more times afterward. pronouncing him a lone nut.  Patty Hearst, who found him too friendly to trust.  One article claims he interviewed Sirhan but I've seen nothing else to support it.  However, Dr. Daniel P Brown mentions Sirhan picking out a photo of him amongst those of others as looking familiar.

The thing is.  He took a sabbatical in 1967 from the University of Oklahoma to conduct research through the University of California Berkley, which they have no records of.  He did get funding to rent a house in Haight Ashbury to study hippies and LSD.  Which he rarely visited, stoned when he did per a grad student.

If he took a sabbatical for the fall of 1967 it would have been for the whole school year including the spring of 1968. 

Might he have still been around to participate in the hypnotization of Sirhan in southern California at Corona? 

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Jolly interviewed Timothy McVeigh shortly after his arrest for the Oklahoma City bombing and several more times afterward. pronouncing him a lone nut.  Patty Hearst, who found him too friendly to trust.  One article claims he interviewed Sirhan but I've seen nothing else to support it.  However, Dr. Daniel P Brown mentions Sirhan picking out a photo of him amongst those of others as looking familiar.

The thing is.  He took a sabbatical in 1967 from the University of Oklahoma to conduct research through the University of California Berkley, which they have no records of.  He did get funding to rent a house in Haight Ashbury to study hippies and LSD.  Which he rarely visited, stoned when he did per a grad student.

If he took a sabbatical for the fall of 1967 it would have been for the whole school year including the spring of 1968. 

Might he have still been around to participate in the hypnotization of Sirhan in southern California at Corona? 

Good work, Ron. 
 

Did you also know that there was a CIA station slap bang in the middle of Laurel Canyon? I wonder which musicians the F’d around with. 

[Ron Bulman]

21 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

Good work, Ron. 
 

Did you also know that there was a CIA station slap bang in the middle of Laurel Canyon? I wonder which musicians the F’d around with. 

I just read mention of that recently, don't remember where, or about sources.  If true I wonder if given their proclivities, West and local William Bryan might have experimented there. 

Niel Young lived there at the time.  I don't think they got through to him.  Maybe so though.

 

[Ron Bulman]

West's career path is interesting.  Born in 1924.   Raised in poverty in Wisconsin he became a kind of whiz kid in government related psychiatry.

A year at the University of Wisconsin.  Then completing his prerequisites at the University of Iowa, "under the ageis of the Army Specialized Training Program during WWII."  He earned his MD from the University of Minnesota medical school in 1949 at age 25.  He then completed his residency at (CIA affiliated) Cornell in 1952.  

His next known posting was as Chief of Psychiatric Services at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio Texas in June 1953.  Two months after Allen Dulles officially created operation MKULTRA.  By which time he was corresponding with it's director, Sidney Gottlieb.

Then in 1954, at the age of 29, with no college teaching experience, tenure track, etc., he's appointed Chair of the Psychiatry Department at the University of Oklahoma.  An unusual advancement?   Where among other depraved research he kills an elephant, but that's another story, visit's Jack Ruby, then takes the sabbatical to research LSD in Haight Ashbury in the fall of 1967.

West became Chair of Psychiatry at UCLA in 1969.  If his fall 1967 sabbatical in San Fran Cisco was for the full school year, extending through the spring of 1968.  Might he have drifted to Southern California in relation to a potential position at UCLA?   Available for CIA work in the areas.

Could UCLA have been a reward for a job well done?

Edited March 8, 2022 by Ron Bulman

[W. Niederhut]

13 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

West's career path is interesting.  Born in 1924.   Raised in poverty in Wisconsin he became a kind of whiz kid in government related psychiatry.

A year at the University of Wisconsin.  Then completing his prerequisites at the University of Iowa, "under the ageis of the Army Specialized Training Program during WWII."  He earned his MD from the University of Minnesota medical school in 1949 at age 25.  He then completed his residency at (CIA affiliated) Cornell in 1952.  

His next known posting was as Chief of Psychiatric Services at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio Texas in June 1953.  Two months after Allen Dulles officially created operation MKULTRA.  By which time he was corresponding with it's director, Sidney Gottlieb.

Then in 1954, at the age of 29, with no college teaching experience, tenure track, etc., he's appointed Chair of the Psychiatry Department at the University of Oklahoma.  An unusual advancement?   Where among other depraved research he kills an elephant, but that's another story, visit's Jack Ruby, then takes the sabbatical to research LSD in Haight Ashbury in the fall of 1967.

West became Chair of Psychiatry at UCLA in 1969.  If his fall 1967 sabbatical in San Fran Cisco was for the full school year, extending through the spring of 1968.  Might he have drifted to Southern California in relation to a potential position at UCLA?   Available for CIA work in the areas.

Could UCLA have been a reward for a job well done?

Ron,

     The Cornell/Payne-Whitney Psychiatry Residency Program has long been among the most prestigious in the U.S., so it's not surprising that Jolly West quickly emerged as the Chairman of the Psychiatry Department at OU after his residency training.

     What is surprising is that West, and other participants in MK-ULTRA, were so devoid of ethical scruples!  What on earth were they thinking?

     They probably justified their unethical conduct as "patriotism" -- which Samuel Johnson called, "the last refuge of scoundrels."

     

Edited March 8, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

What is surprising is that West, and other participants in MK-ULTRA, were so devoid of ethical scruples!  What on earth were they thinking?

     They probably justified their unethical conduct as "patriotism" -- which Samuel Johnson called, "the last refuge of scoundrels."

 

It’ll be in part the US security apparatus initially duping them with the story about such research saving American lives and about them playing their role as patriots. But, after a short time they’d be compromised, as dirty as the rest, whilst being very aware of how dangerous the people they work for are. People will justify their existence in any way they can that sits well with their conscience. If you look for very ambitious people, who seek power and privilege, you probably don’t have to worry about their consciences interfering. Olsen started to feel remorse and I am sure even Gottlieb had regrets in his later years (I read that somewhere). 
 

Is there also something that attracts people to learning hypnotism? Essentially it gives one person tremendous power over another. I obviously know it has beneficial applications but, I wonder what peoples deep motivations are? Likewise perhaps learning dark psychology. 

[Ron Bulman]

8 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Ron,

     The Cornell/Payne-Whitney Psychiatry Residency Program has long been among the most prestigious in the U.S., so it's not surprising that Jolly West quickly emerged as the Chairman of the Psychiatry Department at OU after his residency training.

     What is surprising is that West, and other participants in MK-ULTRA, were so devoid of ethical scruples!  What on earth were they thinking?

     They probably justified their unethical conduct as "patriotism" -- which Samuel Johnson called, "the last refuge of scoundrels."

     

West doing his residency at Cornell is from the Wikipedia bio.  But somewhere else in all this it was noted the Payne-Whitney Psychiatry program was in part a CIA research facility from maybe as far back as the OSS days? 

[Pete Mellor]

9 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

West doing his residency at Cornell is from the Wikipedia bio.  But somewhere else in all this it was noted the Payne-Whitney Psychiatry program was in part a CIA research facility from maybe as far back as the OSS days? 

Interesting to note that 'as far back as the OSS days' were relatively recent history in comparison to Soviet research in mind control techniques.  Solzhenitsyn writes:-

"People have speculated about a Tibetan potion that deprives a man of his will, and about the use of hypnosis.  Such explanations must by no means be rejected: if the NKVD possessed such methods, clearly there were no moral rules to prevent resorting to them.  Why not weaken or muddle the will?  And it is a known fact that in the 1920's some leading hypnotists gave up their careers and entered the service of the GPU. It is also reliably known that in the thirties a school for hypnotists existed in the NKVD."

I am moving off topic from Jolyon West & Ruby & MK/Ultra in the U.S., but it is not a great leap of conjecture to wonder if the above stated methods were incorporated against defectors like Oswald to uncover their true purpose.  Did Marina ever wear a 'polka-dot' dress?

[Guest]

https://theintercept.com/2019/11/24/cia-mkultra-louis-jolyon-west/
 

Another murder with the perp being a US serviceman, and having no memory of it. Jolly West implicated. 

[Ron Bulman]

Would West, Bryan possibly approve?  George White probably would.

The Road To Psychedelics Legalization (msn.com)

 

[W. Niederhut]

58 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Would West, Bryan possibly approve?  George White probably would.

The Road To Psychedelics Legalization (msn.com)

 

Yes, Ron, it's a fascinating development in modern psychopharmacology.  Perhaps I retired too soon.

I did prescribe intra-nasal ketamine for some of my patients back in the days before the proprietary product Spravato was approved by the FDA in 2019, and I was quoted in the New York Times about my observations. 

Veterans Agency to Offer New Depression Drug, Despite Cost and Safety Concerns - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

MDMA (Ecstasy) is emerging as a promising treatment for PTSD, and psilocybin may have therapeutic potential as an anti-depressant.

There's a young rabbi here in Denver who has been growing and sharing magic mushrooms, ritualistically, with participants in his movement.  (The city of Denver voted to legalize magic mushrooms, but they are still illegal with the Feds.)

Incidentally, John Marks wrote an excellent history of the discovery of magic mushrooms and the identification of psilocybin (by Albert Hoffman, the Swiss chemist who first discovered LSD) in his 1979 book, The Search For the Manchurian Candidate.

 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Yes, Ron, it's a fascinating development in modern psychopharmacology.  Perhaps I retired too soon.

I did prescribe intra-nasal ketamine for some of my patients back in the days before the proprietary product Spravato was approved by the FDA in 2019, and I was quoted in the New York Times about my observations. 

Veterans Agency to Offer New Depression Drug, Despite Cost and Safety Concerns - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

MDMA (Ecstasy) is emerging as a promising treatment for PTSD, and psilocybin may have therapeutic potential as an anti-depressant.

There's a young rabbi here in Denver who has been growing and sharing magic mushrooms, ritualistically, with participants in his movement.  (The city of Denver voted to legalize magic mushrooms, but they are still illegal with the Feds.)

Incidentally, John Marks wrote an excellent history of the discovery of magic mushrooms and the identification of psilocybin (by Albert Hoffman, the Swiss chemist who first discovered LSD) in his 1979 book, The Search For the Manchurian Candidate.

 

 

I think Ecstasy was overrated.   Mushrooms made you puke but were enlightening. Mescaline was my favorite.  Acid was good but one time bad.  Never took any more than very few times.  THC, later claimed to be PCP was more mind numbing.

I'm gonna holler and I'm gonna scream.  I'm gonna get me some mescaline.

 

[Pete Mellor]

On 3/10/2022 at 5:38 AM, Ron Bulman said:

 Mushrooms made you puke but were enlightening. 

 

🤣 Ron, your comment sent me back to the early 1970's, It may have been when the comet Kahoutek appeared.  I took my astro telescope out to a quiet site on a sports field & invited a few friends along to view the night sky.  They thought it would be more cosmic to prepare a brew of magic mushrooms.  So, we were out in the dark with telescope when along came a cop car to check what we were up to.  Bobby was interested in viewing the celestial visitor and was at the eyepiece when friends girlfriend puked up her mushroom intake into the officer's trouser turnups.  Thankfully, piggy was oblivious and soon resumed his patrol.  Still makes me smile!

[Ron Bulman]

On 3/9/2022 at 9:43 PM, W. Niederhut said:

Yes, Ron, it's a fascinating development in modern psychopharmacology.  Perhaps I retired too soon.

I did prescribe intra-nasal ketamine for some of my patients back in the days before the proprietary product Spravato was approved by the FDA in 2019, and I was quoted in the New York Times about my observations. 

Veterans Agency to Offer New Depression Drug, Despite Cost and Safety Concerns - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

MDMA (Ecstasy) is emerging as a promising treatment for PTSD, and psilocybin may have therapeutic potential as an anti-depressant.

There's a young rabbi here in Denver who has been growing and sharing magic mushrooms, ritualistically, with participants in his movement.  (The city of Denver voted to legalize magic mushrooms, but they are still illegal with the Feds.)

Incidentally, John Marks wrote an excellent history of the discovery of magic mushrooms and the identification of psilocybin (by Albert Hoffman, the Swiss chemist who first discovered LSD) in his 1979 book, The Search For the Manchurian Candidate.

 

 

I'm in the first chapter of Manchurian Candidate at the moment. 

This is another article on West I'd saved but forgot to link here.

Dr. L. Jolyon West: The LSD Cult behind the Cult Awareness Network (larouchepub.com) 

[Ron Bulman]

One more I neglected to link.   Jolly and wife's true stories.

Louis J. and Kathryn West: Probers of the Mind, Dedicated Activists : He Is Director of the Neuropsychiatric Institute at UCLA - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)