Dr. Louis Jolyon West, Ruby and More

[Ron Bulman]

"Seemingly as soon as the story of Oswald's murder hit the presses, Jolly West tried to insinuate himself into the case.  He hoped to assemble a panel of "experts in behavior problems" to weigh in on Ruby's mental state.  He took the extraordinary measure of (coming down to Dallas from the University of Oklahoma, and) approaching Judge Joe B. Brown, who'd impaneled the grand jury that indicted Ruby.  . . .  The Judge said no.  Three documents among his papers said he'd been "asked" by someone, though he never said who, to seek the appointment from Brown, a few days after the assassination, a fact never before made public."

When Ruby was convicted of killing Oswald he fired all of his lawyers but one assistant, Hubert Smith, a psychiatrist with a law degree, to represent him on appeal.  

"Once Dr. Smith was driving Ruby's legal team, one of his first acts was to request a new psychiatric examination of Ruby."  Smith requested West.  On April 26, 1964 he examined Ruby alone in a cell.  "West emerged from Ruby's cell to announce the previously sane inmate had undergone "an acute psychotic break" somewhere during the preceding "forty-eight hours."  From that day forward, every doctor who examined Ruby made similar diagnoses: he was delusional."

From the Tom O'Neil book Chaos, pgs. 377-379.

Note, this was before Ruby's Warren Commission "questioning" and his rambling to Warren.

I didn't expect to discover anything like Jolly West and his involvement in the JFK cover up in a book on Manson.  Then again, the author was stunned by what he found.

Researching Manson took him to Haight Ashbury in San Francisco in 1967.  Where Jolly ran a "research" facility, a crash pad for hippies, to observe them, though it was a sham per the grad students employed there.  Learning a little more about West, O'Neil started looking more.  Eventually he discovered West had left his personal papers, Two Hundred boxes of them, to UCLA.  They had never been touched.  He started digging, days then weeks and months on end. 

In addition to the above he found letters to/from Sidney Gottlieb, head of the CIA's MKULTRA Research and Development, supportive of his work.  The Black Sorcerer, the Poisoner in Chief.  Tom also learned from the files that much of West's research while working for the Air Force, at OU, the Frisco crash pad and UCLA was funded through CIA fronts.

Tip of the iceberg on West.  More on this part, but much more on other involvements. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Ron Bulman

[Pete Mellor]

6 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Tip of the iceberg on West.  More on this part, but much more on other involvements. 

Ron, Don't want to hijack this thread on West, but a co-reader on 'Goodreads' recently made me aware of this book:-'The MK/Ultra Secret' by Frank Camper.

'For more than thirty years the controversy over the assassination of John F. Kennedy has raged. Former military intelligence agent & CIA operative Frank Camper knows the truth of that assassination. The story is spine chilling & dramatic. It answers many of the questions which have plagued Americans about the loss of their most charismatic leader. Did Lee Harvey Oswald pull the trigger or was he simply a patsy in a game of mind control & CIA diversion? Could Lee Harvey Oswald have become such a risk to certain government agencies that he became expendable & as a result was used as a sacrificial lamb to divert attention & suspicion from the real assassins? THE MK\ULTRA SECRET will be released as a motion picture through Greystone Films in the early part of 1997.' 

I have no idea of this book or the above mentioned motion picture, although Goodreads readers give the book a high rating.  Always dubious of any CIA operative who "knows the truth of that assassination."

Has anyone read this book?  (Not listed on Amazon U.K.)  Published 1997.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Pete Mellor
Add info

[Jamey Flanagan]

I know some have speculated in the past that Oswald may have been an MK Ultra subject. Nothing would surprise me in this case, but I would tend towards no on that one. However, Ruby is a different story. Even before the Jolly West visit to him in prison. His claims of not remembering the shooting of Oswald, reports of him not knowing why he was being accosted in the basement just after asking why they were attacking him and identifying himself to them, and then you have him being in a excited, nervous state in the cell and asking for a cigarette and then after being told that Oswald had died his whole demeanour changed and given the cigarette he had just asked for minutes earlier said he didn't smoke. Are all of these things definite proof or signs of him being in a hypnotic state at the time? No. It could just be that Ruby or his loved one's lives actually depended on whether he killed Oswald or not. But his shooting of Oswald and Sirhan's shooting of RFK sure do have many similarities! Sirhan, in a similar vein, upon being told that RFK had died seemed to just snap out of it and start acting normal again where he previously seemed to be in a daze of sorts.

[W. Niederhut]

19 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

"Seemingly as soon as the story of Oswald's murder hit the presses, Jolly West tried to insinuate himself into the case.  He hoped to assemble a panel of "experts in behavior problems" to weigh in on Ruby's mental state.  He took the extraordinary measure of (coming down to Dallas from the University of Oklahoma, and) approaching Judge Joe B. Brown, who'd impaneled the grand jury that indicted Ruby.  . . .  The Judge said no.  Three documents among his papers said he'd been "asked" by someone, though he never said who, to seek the appointment from Brown, a few days after the assassination, a fact never before made public."

When Ruby was convicted of killing Oswald he fired all of his lawyers but one assistant, Hubert Smith, a psychiatrist with a law degree, to represent him on appeal.  

"Once Dr. Smith was driving Ruby's legal team, one of his first acts was to request a new psychiatric examination of Ruby."  Smith requested West.  On April 26, 1964 he examined Ruby alone in a cell.  "West emerged from Ruby's cell to announce the previously sane inmate had undergone "an acute psychotic break" somewhere during the preceding "forty-eight hours."  From that day forward, every doctor who examined Ruby made similar diagnoses: he was delusional."

From the Tom O'Neil book Chaos, pgs. 377-379.

Note, this was before Ruby's Warren Commission "questioning" and his rambling to Warren.

I didn't expect to discover anything like Jolly West and his involvement in the JFK cover up in a book on Manson.  Then again, the author was stunned by what he found.

Researching Manson took him to Haight Ashbury in San Francisco in 1967.  Where Jolly ran a "research" facility, a crash pad for hippies, to observe them, though it was a sham per the grad students employed there.  Learning a little more about West, O'Neil started looking more.  Eventually he discovered West had left his personal papers, several boxes of them to UCLA.  They had never been touched.  He started digging, days then weeks and months on end. 

In addition to the above he found letters to/from Sidney Gottlieb, head of the CIA's MKULTRA Research and Development, supportive of his work.  The Black Sorcerer, the Poisoner in Chief.  Tom also learned from the files that much of West's research while working for the Air Force, at OU, the Frisco crash pad and UCLA was funded through CIA fronts.

Tip of the iceberg on West.  More on this part, but much more on other involvements. 

O'Neill, certainly, uncovered far more about Dr. Jolyon West (from those cached UCLA files) than John Marks did in 1979.

Marks found next to nothing about Jolyon West's relationship with Gottlieb and MK-ULTRA in his 1979 cache of CIA records.

As in William Joseph Bryan's case, Richard Helms, apparently, shredded the evidence in 1973.

[Ron Bulman]

14 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Ron, Don't want to hijack this thread on West, but a co-reader on 'Goodreads' recently made me aware of this book:-'The MK/Ultra Secret' by Frank Camper.

'For more than thirty years the controversy over the assassination of John F. Kennedy has raged. Former military intelligence agent & CIA operative Frank Camper knows the truth of that assassination. The story is spine chilling & dramatic. It answers many of the questions which have plagued Americans about the loss of their most charismatic leader. Did Lee Harvey Oswald pull the trigger or was he simply a patsy in a game of mind control & CIA diversion? Could Lee Harvey Oswald have become such a risk to certain government agencies that he became expendable & as a result was used as a sacrificial lamb to divert attention & suspicion from the real assassins? THE MK\ULTRA SECRET will be released as a motion picture through Greystone Films in the early part of 1997.' 

I have no idea of this book or the above mentioned motion picture, although Goodreads readers give the book a high rating.  Always dubious of any CIA operative who "knows the truth of that assassination."

Has anyone read this book?  (Not listed on Amazon U.K.)  Published 1997.

Amazon does acknowledge it here in the US as in it did exist once upon a time.  But nothing more.  Was it disappeared?

The Mk/Ultra Secret Frank Camper: 0781349553685: Amazon.com: Books 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Jamey Flanagan said:

I know some have speculated in the past that Oswald may have been an MK Ultra subject. Nothing would surprise me in this case, but I would tend towards no on that one. However, Ruby is a different story. Even before the Jolly West visit to him in prison. His claims of not remembering the shooting of Oswald, reports of him not knowing why he was being accosted in the basement just after asking why they were attacking him and identifying himself to them, and then you have him being in a excited, nervous state in the cell and asking for a cigarette and then after being told that Oswald had died his whole demeanour changed and given the cigarette he had just asked for minutes earlier said he didn't smoke. Are all of these things definite proof or signs of him being in a hypnotic state at the time? No. It could just be that Ruby or his loved one's lives actually depended on whether he killed Oswald or not. But his shooting of Oswald and Sirhan's shooting of RFK sure do have many similarities! Sirhan, in a similar vein, upon being told that RFK had died seemed to just snap out of it and start acting normal again where he previously seemed to be in a daze of sorts.

Hi Jamey, 

Interesting comments. Can you post any links to source material or worthwhile reading on the topic of Ruby shooting Oswald? Either here or on the Estabrooks thread. 

Thanks

Chris

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Amazon does acknowledge it here in the US as in it did exist once upon a time.  But nothing more.  Was it disappeared?

The Mk/Ultra Secret Frank Camper: 0781349553685: Amazon.com: Books 

Someone needs to get a copy, look at his background:

https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Frank_Camper

 

[Ron Bulman]

11 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

Someone needs to get a copy, look at his background:

https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Frank_Camper

 

So he was 17 in 1963 then later became a mercenary in the 80's.  I guess someone else from the company told him what happened in 1963?

[Jamey Flanagan]

@Chris Barnard Sorry, but you just can't find things conspiratorial anymore upon a Google search, lol! I was just going by memory on my post of things I've read over the decades in books, articles, or websites. I did find this however:

Was Jack Ruby A
Manchurian Candidate?
By Michael J. Levy
11-9-2
 

Was Jack Ruby in a hypnotic trance [under mind control] when he went into Dallas police headquarters on November 24, 1963, and shot Lee Harvey Oswald--if it in fact was Oswald [Marine records show that on Oswald's 1959 discharge papers he was 5'11", yet the November 1963 autopsy report states he was 5'9"]?   There are numerous suggestions that Jack Ruby's mind had in some way been manipulated, looking back on his testimony before the Warren Commission investigating the assassination and from experts' testimony in his murder trial of Oswald. Ruby's first attorney was Melvin Belli.   In his book "Dallas Justice," Mr. Belli stated: "Never once did he [Ruby] voluntarily mention Lee Oswald by name. Never as far as I could see, was he willing to concede that there had been this living, breathing human being who had died at his hands. It was strange because he had the capacity to summon up sympathy for almost anything."   Even more revealing were the psychiatric diagnoses made of Ruby. Dr. Walter Bromberg stated that Ruby was "pre-set to be a fighter, to attack." He continued, "definitely there is a block to his thinking which is no part of his original [italics inserted] mental endowment."   And Dr. Roy Shafer elaborated by saying, "He [Ruby] appears not altogether in control of his body actions, as if they occur independently of his conscious will at times."   But it was Dr. Manfred Guttmacher, a leading criminal psychologist, who was caught in a quag. He testified that, yes, Ruby's brain had been "damaged," but couldn't figure out exactly how. He further testified that he felt that at the time of the shooting Ruby had suffered a "functional psychosis." "It would be functional, not organic."   Dallas Assistant Attorney Bill Alexander then asked Dr. Guttmacher, "Well, by functional mental psychosis, do you mean a psychotic condition for which there is no known organic cause?"   "Yes," responded Dr. Guttmacher. "Doctor, Alexander asked, aren't you shooting both barrels at us? On one hand, you say he's got brain damage, and then you say, no, he does not have brain damage."   This suggests the possibility sophisticated mind control techniques were used on Ruby that neither the experts nor the police were aware of.   Of course this is not far-fetched today. In early 1977 the CIA released a document dated 1-22-54 raising the question, "Can an individual be made to perform an act of attempted assassination involuntarily...?" The document, under the codename "Operation Artichoke," took the question a step further, "against a prominent (foreign) politician or if necessary against an American official?" The question was left unanswered.   Contrary to popular myth, a hypnotized person can be made to do things they would not ordinarily do. This is especially true if the hypnotized person is led to believe this is "normal" behavior, or some other trick is used. As well, a person need not show signs of 'trance.'   There was at least one reporter who believed Jack Ruby's mind had been tampered with. It was Dorothy Kilgallen. She was the only reported to have had a private interview with Ruby after the killing. Shortly after that interview she proclaimed she was going to "blow the JFK case sky high."   Interestingly, in her December 3, 1964 syndicated column she wrote:   MEMO TO PRESIDENT JOHNSON: Please check with the State Department, the leaders of our armed forces, or our scientists to discover what -- if anything -- we are doing to explore the ramifications of "cloud-busting," which in its refined stages, means thought control and could change the history of the world.   Sadly, and ironically, she wrote in her September 3, 1965 column referring to the assassination: That story isn't going to die as long as there's a reporter alive -- and there are a lot of them alive.   But she wasn't to be among them. Just over two months later she was found dead in her New York apartment. Initially her death was described as an apparent heart attack, but was later concluded to be from a massive overdose of barbiturates and alcohol intoxification.   The medical examiner could not determine "whether it was an accident, a suicide, or murder." Her apartment was found in shambles; her Ruby notes were never found.   -----   What better way could there be to close out a larger conspiracy than for one of the major players, Ruby, to kill the person framed for it, Oswald, and have no memory of who put him up to it than by using mind control...       Comment   From Marilyn A. Guinnane Maguinnane@cs.com 11-10-2   Jeff,   In presenting the possibility of Jack Ruby having been mind-controlled, writer Michael J. Levy evidently isn't aware of the program delivered to the CIA by the Nazis, called MK Ultra. It is trauma based mind control, brought about by torture, until what used to be termed multiple personality disorder emerges. These personalities, fractured off the main personality, can then be programmed like a computer. There are literally thousands of mind-controlled victims out there, who are triggered into action, ala Manchurian Candidate, by various codes thrown out there by the media and so on. These MK Ultra victims click into action, robotically, so that I'm convinced that the probability is great that the recent Sniper & his illegal alien sidekick were of this ilk. Also many many of the shootings that take place, spreading fear among the populace (oh please, wonderful government, save us!!) as well as undermining our second amendment.   Mr. Levy should read Trance Formation of America by Cathy O'Brian and Mark Phillips; Susan Ford's (aka Brice Taylor) self-published book, Thanks for the Memories; David Icke's many incredibly informative books (www.davidicke.com).   George Orwell should have entitled his famous book "2004", because "1984" was right on the money, and it's just around the bend.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

So he was 17 in 1963 then later became a mercenary in the 80's.  I guess someone else from the company told him what happened in 1963?

Or, did he see others exposed to the techniques at a later date, which made him immediately understand what happened in previous events. 
 

Going to have to read about these Air India Bombings and understand why he is being implicated and to try and understand the political impacts. It may be a blind alley. 
 

I wonder if he is contactable. 

[Ron Bulman]

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

O'Neill, certainly, uncovered far more about Dr. Jolyon West (from those cached UCLA files) than John Marks did in 1979.

Marks found next to nothing about Jolyon West's relationship with Gottlieb and MK-ULTRA in his 1979 cache of CIA records.

As in William Joseph Bryan's case, Richard Helms, apparently, shredded the evidence in 1973.

I think West's attempted involvement after Ruby's initial arrest to his 1964 visit to his cell is proof the CIA and MKULTRA were involved in the coverup at a minimum.  Though their involvement is already proven in other ways.  This is another nail in the coffin   

Per his own notes West tried to involve himself immediately after Ruby shot Oswald.  Per his own notes he communicated frequently about research and received funding from Gottlieb and MKULTRA.  He was to quote him "pleased to be acknowledged as an asset" to Gottlieb.  He per three references in his notes asked to interfere in the days after Ruby shot Oswald then when called on to do so in 1964 blew Ruby's mind so to speak.    

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jamey Flanagan said:

@Chris Barnard Sorry, but you just can't find things conspiratorial anymore upon a Google search, lol! I was just going by memory on my post of things I've read over the decades in books, articles, or websites. I did find this however:

Was Jack Ruby A
Manchurian Candidate?
By Michael J. Levy
11-9-2
 

Was Jack Ruby in a hypnotic trance [under mind control] when he went into Dallas police headquarters on November 24, 1963, and shot Lee Harvey Oswald--if it in fact was Oswald [Marine records show that on Oswald's 1959 discharge papers he was 5'11", yet the November 1963 autopsy report states he was 5'9"]?   There are numerous suggestions that Jack Ruby's mind had in some way been manipulated, looking back on his testimony before the Warren Commission investigating the assassination and from experts' testimony in his murder trial of Oswald. Ruby's first attorney was Melvin Belli.   In his book "Dallas Justice," Mr. Belli stated: "Never once did he [Ruby] voluntarily mention Lee Oswald by name. Never as far as I could see, was he willing to concede that there had been this living, breathing human being who had died at his hands. It was strange because he had the capacity to summon up sympathy for almost anything."   Even more revealing were the psychiatric diagnoses made of Ruby. Dr. Walter Bromberg stated that Ruby was "pre-set to be a fighter, to attack." He continued, "definitely there is a block to his thinking which is no part of his original [italics inserted] mental endowment."   And Dr. Roy Shafer elaborated by saying, "He [Ruby] appears not altogether in control of his body actions, as if they occur independently of his conscious will at times."   But it was Dr. Manfred Guttmacher, a leading criminal psychologist, who was caught in a quag. He testified that, yes, Ruby's brain had been "damaged," but couldn't figure out exactly how. He further testified that he felt that at the time of the shooting Ruby had suffered a "functional psychosis." "It would be functional, not organic."   Dallas Assistant Attorney Bill Alexander then asked Dr. Guttmacher, "Well, by functional mental psychosis, do you mean a psychotic condition for which there is no known organic cause?"   "Yes," responded Dr. Guttmacher. "Doctor, Alexander asked, aren't you shooting both barrels at us? On one hand, you say he's got brain damage, and then you say, no, he does not have brain damage."   This suggests the possibility sophisticated mind control techniques were used on Ruby that neither the experts nor the police were aware of.   Of course this is not far-fetched today. In early 1977 the CIA released a document dated 1-22-54 raising the question, "Can an individual be made to perform an act of attempted assassination involuntarily...?" The document, under the codename "Operation Artichoke," took the question a step further, "against a prominent (foreign) politician or if necessary against an American official?" The question was left unanswered.   Contrary to popular myth, a hypnotized person can be made to do things they would not ordinarily do. This is especially true if the hypnotized person is led to believe this is "normal" behavior, or some other trick is used. As well, a person need not show signs of 'trance.'   There was at least one reporter who believed Jack Ruby's mind had been tampered with. It was Dorothy Kilgallen. She was the only reported to have had a private interview with Ruby after the killing. Shortly after that interview she proclaimed she was going to "blow the JFK case sky high."   Interestingly, in her December 3, 1964 syndicated column she wrote:   MEMO TO PRESIDENT JOHNSON: Please check with the State Department, the leaders of our armed forces, or our scientists to discover what -- if anything -- we are doing to explore the ramifications of "cloud-busting," which in its refined stages, means thought control and could change the history of the world.   Sadly, and ironically, she wrote in her September 3, 1965 column referring to the assassination: That story isn't going to die as long as there's a reporter alive -- and there are a lot of them alive.   But she wasn't to be among them. Just over two months later she was found dead in her New York apartment. Initially her death was described as an apparent heart attack, but was later concluded to be from a massive overdose of barbiturates and alcohol intoxification.   The medical examiner could not determine "whether it was an accident, a suicide, or murder." Her apartment was found in shambles; her Ruby notes were never found.   -----   What better way could there be to close out a larger conspiracy than for one of the major players, Ruby, to kill the person framed for it, Oswald, and have no memory of who put him up to it than by using mind control...       Comment   From Marilyn A. Guinnane Maguinnane@cs.com 11-10-2   Jeff,   In presenting the possibility of Jack Ruby having been mind-controlled, writer Michael J. Levy evidently isn't aware of the program delivered to the CIA by the Nazis, called MK Ultra. It is trauma based mind control, brought about by torture, until what used to be termed multiple personality disorder emerges. These personalities, fractured off the main personality, can then be programmed like a computer. There are literally thousands of mind-controlled victims out there, who are triggered into action, ala Manchurian Candidate, by various codes thrown out there by the media and so on. These MK Ultra victims click into action, robotically, so that I'm convinced that the probability is great that the recent Sniper & his illegal alien sidekick were of this ilk. Also many many of the shootings that take place, spreading fear among the populace (oh please, wonderful government, save us!!) as well as undermining our second amendment.   Mr. Levy should read Trance Formation of America by Cathy O'Brian and Mark Phillips; Susan Ford's (aka Brice Taylor) self-published book, Thanks for the Memories; David Icke's many incredibly informative books (www.davidicke.com).   George Orwell should have entitled his famous book "2004", because "1984" was right on the money, and it's just around the bend.

Thanks, Jamey, appreciate it. 

[Guest]

https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/?date=19950709&slug=2130375
 

14 year prison sentence for Frank. Hmm

[Pete Mellor]

13 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Amazon does acknowledge it here in the US as in it did exist once upon a time.  But nothing more.  Was it disappeared?

The Mk/Ultra Secret Frank Camper: 0781349553685: Amazon.com: Books 

Disappeared, but I don't think I will be hunting for this.  Amazon's only review from 'Interested Researcher' reads as though written by the self publicist herself, Vary Baker.

Camper's age in '63 is a final nail in the book's coffin for me.

[Ron Bulman]

20 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I think West's attempted involvement after Ruby's initial arrest to his 1964 visit to his cell is proof the CIA and MKULTRA were involved in the coverup at a minimum.  Though their involvement is already proven in other ways.  This is another nail in the coffin   

Per his own notes West tried to involve himself immediately after Ruby shot Oswald.  Per his own notes he communicated frequently about research and received funding from Gottlieb and MKULTRA.  He was to quote him "pleased to be acknowledged as an asset" to Gottlieb.  He per three references in his notes asked to interfere in the days after Ruby shot Oswald then when called on to do so in 1964 blew Ruby's mind so to speak.    

I don't know what I was thinking yesterday.  I meant to link this article.  It covers a good bit of varied info on West.  It's by Tom O'Neil and a Dan Pipenbring.  The story of Shaver at Lackland AFB it starts with is disturbing.

Inside the Archive of an LSD Researcher With Ties to the CIA’s MKUltra Mind Control Project (theintercept.com)