Did Oswald deny he went to Mexico City in his interrogation?

[James DiEugenio]

I should add, Greg Parker sent me an email since he must have been reading this thread.

He agrees with my general idea that LHO did not come down or go back on the bus lines the WC said he did.

And he has a whole different line of argument for thinking that.

I look forward to the next part of his book series.

 

[Gene Kelly]

Jim

This has turned into a very interesting thread, in part thanks to you.  I am putting a paper together on Mexico City - a very convoluted story - as this helps me digest all of the various facts, evidence, and opinions.   I've done this with many of the fascinating subtopics in the JFK story .... Tippit, the Paines, the autopsy, etc.   Mexico City is one of the last pieces of the puzzle for me, and one that I hadn't previously understood well.  But after considering this thread - and going back to the work of David Josephs, Bill Simpich, Larry Hancock, Greg Parker and yourself - the picture becomes clearer.  Whatever was going on in Mexico City, it does appear integral to the plot to kill the President (i.e., crucial to what was going on, per Garrison).  So many intriguing narratives: Silvia Duran's "protective custody" is telling; it seems there's a battle going on between FBI and CIA; connecting MC and the Odio visit; and the spy games being played against both the Russians and Cubans in Mexico City.  This would make for a great Netflix series. 

You provide a rationale that rings true to me, and one that I can understand.  I appreciate your insights and learn so much by reading your books and posts (which is why I participate in the Forum).  Thanks to you, I have also come to see Jim Garrison as very much on the 'trail' ... what a courageous figure he was, going up against the powers that be (one man against the World) to establish the truth. I would certainly like to know more about Oswald’s dark-skinned, muscular Cuban escort and Garrison’s material on this “escort”.

One question that I have for you is, why is it that many prominent researchers state that they remain "agnostic" on whether Oswald was in MC?   The choice of that word implies that the truth is simply unknowable.  Is it because it's buried under a mountain of disinformation (and inaccessible records) ... or that intelligence agencies are careful (and skillful) at never leaving a trail ... or is it that there are too many 'Oswalds' and we can never definitively know what Oswald's true role was (i.e., the guy Ruby shot and killed)? 

Gene

[James DiEugenio]

 

Those who say he was there use the whole visa photo issue.  But in my view, David Josephs brought that into question, and the FBI could not find the photo service that LHO went to for that, and they checked every one in a five mile radius.

I think some people like playing it safe on this, in case something new comes down the pike.  I also think there is a natural inclination not to want to challenge the whole episode.  I mean not even Danny and Eddie wanted to do that. Its a lot of work to do that kind of thing as you can see from the above.

BTW, I am not saying I am 100% correct either.  What I am saying if that the preponderance of the evidence indicates he was not there. 

 

[Pamela Brown]

7 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

 

Those who say he was there use the whole visa photo issue.  But in my view, David Josephs brought that into question, and the FBI could not find the photo service that LHO went to for that, and they checked every one in a five mile radius.

I think some people like playing it safe on this, in case something new comes down the pike.  I also think there is a natural inclination not to want to challenge the whole episode.  I mean not even Danny and Eddie wanted to do that. Its a lot of work to do that kind of thing as you can see from the above.

BTW, I am not saying I am 100% correct either.  What I am saying if that the preponderance of the evidence indicates he was not there. 

 

I do think he was there, but he was being tracked and observed by intelligence.  I also think there may have been a double...

[Tom Gram]

10 hours ago, Gene Kelly said:

I would certainly like to know more about Oswald’s dark-skinned, muscular Cuban escort and Garrison’s material on this “escort”.

Paul Bleau talks about it in BOR #1081. Bleau is not kidding when he says something like nine or ten people witnessed Oswald in the company of this "escort". One of them is Dean Andrews. I wish I marked all the sources when going through the files. Hopefully Bleau lists them all in the upcoming essay. Like Jim said, it's really provocative stuff. 

[Sandy Larsen]

11 hours ago, Gene Kelly said:

I would certainly like to know more about Oswald’s dark-skinned, muscular Cuban escort and Garrison’s material on this “escort”.

 

Gene,

Do you know if Garrison referred to this escort as "Spanish trace" or "the shepherd?"

BTW Mexico City is the key to understanding the assassination plot IMO. My reading of all those DiEugenio posts above confirm what I already suspected, that my understanding of Mexico City is much the same as Jim's. Which is fortunate for me because he has a lot of influence, and it's nice to see things I believe being embraced by certain important people. 

 

[Gene Kelly]

Sandy

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about this individual who was LHO's escort.  You can add P. D. Scott to the prominent researchers who feel as you do.  He had this to say about the Mexico City narratives:

By looking closely at the Mexico Oswald stories, and particularly at their genesis in the corrupt drug linked Mexican DFS, we have learnt more about the CIA role in covering up important clues about the Kennedy assassination.

Gene

[James DiEugenio]

Sandy, that will be dealt with by Paul Bleau in his upcoming series on the Garrison files. Thanks.

Gene, it was not just the DFS though. 

It was Secretary of Interior Echeverria and his aide de camp Ochoa.

[Gene Kelly]

Jim

Luis Echeverria Alvarez, died last week at age 100.  His political career began in 1945, when he married the daughter of a party boss and joined the Institutional Revolutionary Party (Spanish acronym PRI) and became the private secretary to the president of the party. Under the PRI, which ruled Mexico from 1929 to 2000, outgoing Mexican presidents picked their successors, who were then assured of victory. In 1970, Echeverría (selected by Díaz Ordaz) became the youngest PRI nominee for president. 

The DFS (Direccion Federal de Investigaciones) was a part of the Mexican Ministry of the Interior (Gobernacion). As secretary of the interior under President Ordaz, Echeverría controlled Mexico’s police and law enforcement infamous for crackdowns on student protesters and political killings.  In 2006, a Mexican court issued a house-arrest warrant for Echeverria on charges of genocide for a 1968 massacre (and a similar human rights travesty in 1971) but later ruled that the statute of limitations had expired. The special prosecutor described Echeverria as “... the master of illusion, the magician of deceit".  Echeverria's brother-in-law (Ruben Zuno Arce) became Mexico's top drug trafficker and was later imprisoned for the murder of a DEA agent. 

To punish politically active youth groups, Echeverria banned the recording and sale of rock music by Mexican bands, that remained in place until the 1980s. He was Mexico’s interior minister and president during the darkest days of one-party rule and repression (called "the dirty war").  He postured as a left-leaning maverick allied with Third World causes and supported the governments of Fidel Castro and Salvador Allende in Chile. His presidency was marked by economic turmoil (deficit spending, foreign debt and a devalued peso) and he was characterized by Latin scholars as “a failed, tragic figure in Mexican history". 

Gene

[Paul Brancato]

On 7/8/2022 at 10:13 PM, Tom Gram said:

Is Paul Bleau still doing an article on the Garrison files for K&K? I’m really interested to see what he does with Oswald’s dark-skinned, muscular Cuban “escort” that he talked about on BOR. I looked through pretty much every page in the files myself, and Garrison’s material on this “escort” is proof beyond a reasonable doubt, IMO. It’s really that good. 

 

Tom - in the Garrison files you went through did you see an entry by Billings regarding Oswald being seen with this ‘escort’ at the Carousel Club? I posted on this a few years ago, and I believe it’s in a thread about David Morales. Not sure if I can find it but I’ll try. 

[Tom Gram]

1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

Tom - in the Garrison files you went through did you see an entry by Billings regarding Oswald being seen with this ‘escort’ at the Carousel Club? I posted on this a few years ago, and I believe it’s in a thread about David Morales. Not sure if I can find it but I’ll try. 

I’m pretty sure Paul Bleau mentions that on Black Op Radio, but I don’t remember seeing that document myself. I was mostly looking for other stuff in the files, so I didn’t save the escort references. The ones I recall off the top of my head are Dean Andrews, and a Cuban (I think it was Ceslo Hernandez) who saw a man that fit the description watching/filming Oswald pass out flyers. There are something like half a dozen more witnesses though. 

[Sandy Larsen]

On 7/8/2022 at 11:13 PM, Tom Gram said:

Is Paul Bleau still doing an article on the Garrison files for K&K? I’m really interested to see what he does with Oswald’s dark-skinned, muscular Cuban “escort” that he talked about on BOR. I looked through pretty much every page in the files myself, and Garrison’s material on this “escort” is proof beyond a reasonable doubt, IMO. It’s really that good.

 

Tom,

What is Garrison's material on the "escort" proof of?

Do you know if the "escort" is referred to as Spanish Trace or The Shepherd by Richard Billings?

I'm also anxious to see what Paul Bleau has to say about this guy. Especially if the "escort" is the guy I think he is.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

32 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

Ceslo Hernandez

 

I think the correct spelling is Celso.

 

[Tom Gram]

21 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Tom,

What is Garrison's material on the "escort" proof of?

Do you know if the "escort" is referred to as Spanish Trace or The Shepherd by Richard Billings?

I'm also anxious to see what Paul Bleau has to say about this guy. Especially if the "escort" is the guy I think he is.

 

There are several independently corroborative credible witnesses that saw Oswald in the presence of this alleged escort in the Summer of ‘63. It’s the kind of stuff that would hold up in court if the question was whether or not Oswald was actually seen with this guy. That’s all I was referring to. 

I’m pretty sure you are correct about the Shepherd/Spanish Trace stuff, but I’m not positive. Again, all I did was browse through the files while researching a different topic, and was surprised by how many credible witnesses there were. My thoughts were: “wow Bleau really wasn’t kidding about this”, and I didn’t dig any deeper since Bleau was already working on it. 

The descriptions given of the escort match a few potential suspects, that I know of. Morales is the one mentioned the most, but Loran Hall and Lawrence Howard both fit too, which is interesting. We don’t have photos or descriptions of a lot of these Cuban exiles though, so it’s tough to say.

I’d really love to know what Manuel Blanco looked like - CIA asset, on the secret Military Committee of the CRC with Arnesto Rodriguez, next door neighbor to Bringuier and Arcacha, etc. But there’s basically zero information on him after 1962. 

EDIT: Thanks for the correction on Hernandez. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Tom Gram

[Paul Brancato]

the LHO/escort sighting at the Carousel mentions the scar over the left eye.