Message From David Von Pein

[Cory Santos]

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Cory,

First of all, Officer Baker's first-day statement doesn't have him going to the 2nd floor lunchroom and seeing Oswald inside. Instead, he says he encountered some guy on the "third or fourth floor." And that guy was just in the hallway, not in any room. So, wrong floor, wrong place, plus wrong description.

So there is one WC li@r.

And if Baker lied, so did Truly. (Not a big surprise since it is known he lied about other things.)

So there's another WC li@r.

The two ladies said they went down the steps right after the shots, yet they didn't hear any footsteps... they should have heard Oswald's footsteps if he had run down from 6th floor. How did the WC fix this problem? The WC claimed the two ladies actually waited for a while before coming down the steps, and so missed Oswald's footsteps. The WC "proved" this by having Shelley and Lovelady testify that they waited on the TSBD steps for three minutes (this is important), at which time Gloria Calvery arrived there and told them JFK had been shot, at which time they went to the railroad yard and went inside the west entrance of the TSBD. At which time they saw the ladies come out the stairway. So that proves the ladies came down more than 3 minutes late, and the WC is happy.

Problem is, Shelley's and Lovelady's testimonies contradict what we see in the Darnell film. Gloria Calvery, who they testified took three minutes for her to arrive at the steps after the shots, was actually there within 20 seconds! (We can see her talking to Lovelady.) She arrived even before officer Baker did! Well, there goes that three minute delay that was designed to discredit the two ladies!

But the point is that they lied in their WC testimonies too.

So there are two more WC li@rs.

 

BTW Oswald ate on the main (ground level) floor, not on the second floor. So I don't know about a witness seeing him eat on the second floor.

Now if you really want to be convinced, read Bart Kamp's Anatomy of the Second Floor Lunchroom Encounter. My understanding is that it is extremely thorough and very convincing. I didn't read it because my own investigation was enough for me to be convinced.

 

According to WC, Oswald stated in his initial interview that he was on the first floor eating lunch.  He went to the second floor to buy a soda.  
 

Carolyn Arnold apparently stated that she saw him on the first floor.  See attached memo.  

She later clarified she had seen him on the second floor however eating.  She worked on the second floor.   See Anthony Summers, Not in Your Lifetime:
The Assassination of JFK, Headline, 2013, p.92.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2022 by Cory Santos

[Sandy Larsen]

[deleted]

Edited July 11, 2022 by Sandy Larsen

[Sandy Larsen]

On 7/10/2022 at 1:34 AM, Cory Santos said:

According to WC, Oswald stated in his initial interview that he was on the first floor eating lunch.  He went to the second floor to buy a soda. 

 

After which Oswald returned to the first floor to finish his lunch.

 

On 7/10/2022 at 1:34 AM, Cory Santos said:

Carolyn Arnold apparently stated that she saw him on the first floor.  See attached memo.  

 

Arnold  apparently caught a glimpse of Oswald after he left the Domino room and was near the front doors of the TSBD. It was probably then that he went outside. According to Hosty's written notes:

O [Oswald] stated he was present for work at TBD on the morning of 11/22 and at noon went to lunch. He went to 2nd floor to get Coca Cola to eat with lunch and returned to 1st floor to eat lunch. Then went outside to watch P. [Presidential] Parade

Carolyn Arnold's first-day statement and Hosty's notes transcribed here is consistent with my contention that the 2nd floor encounter never happened. In contrast, the WC's claim of a 2nd floor encounter is inconsistent with these statement and notes.

 

On 7/10/2022 at 1:34 AM, Cory Santos said:

She later clarified she had seen him on the second floor however eating.  She worked on the second floor.   See Anthony Summers, Not in Your Lifetime:
The Assassination of JFK, Headline, 2013, p.92.

 

I always choose first-day statements over those made later. This "clarification" was made 15 years later!

You need to get with it Cory. Today's technologies have made it much easier to uncover facts in the case. I can show you a Darnell frame with Gloria Calvery at the TSBD steps, talking to Lovelady, a mere 20 seconds after the shooting and with no Shelley in sight. Which 100% contradicts what those two witnesses said in their WC testimony. But is 100% consistent with their first-day statements! You can't see Shelley no doubt because he had gone back inside to call his wife. Just like he said he did in his first day statement.

BTW if it means anything to you, I believe that even DiEugenio buys that the 2nd story encounter was fabricated. He published excerpts of Bart Kamp's treatise on K&K.

 

[Cory Santos]

20 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

After which Oswald returned to the first floor to finish his lunch.

 

 

Arnold  apparently caught a glimpse of Oswald after he left the Domino room and was near the front doors of the TSBD. It was probably then that he went outside. According to Hosty's written notes:

O [Oswald] stated he was present for work at TBD on the morning of 11/22 and at noon went to lunch. He went to 2nd floor to get Coca Cola to eat with lunch and returned to 1st floor to eat lunch. Then went outside to watch P. [Presidential] Parade

Carolyn Arnold's first-day statement and Hosty's notes transcribed here is consistent with my contention that the 2nd floor encounter never happened. In contrast, the WC's claim of a 2nd floor encounter is inconsistent with these statement and notes.

 

 

I always choose first-day statements over those made later. This "clarification" was made 15 years later!

You need to get with it Cory. Today's technologies have made it much easier to uncover facts in the case. I can show you a Darnell frame with Gloria Calvery at the TSBD steps, talking to Lovelady, a mere 20 seconds after the shooting and with no Shelley in sight. Which 100% contradicts what those two witnesses said in their WC testimony. But is 100% consistent with their first-day statements! You can't see Shelley no doubt because he had gone back inside to call his wife. Just like he said he did in his first day statement.

BTW if it means anything to you, I believe that even DiEugenio buys that the 2nd story encounter was fabricated. He published excerpts of Bart Kamp's treatise on K&K.

 

Sandy, start a new thread and let’s hear your theory and see what everyone says.  So far I don’t see agree with you but let’s see this in a new thread. 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Cory Santos

[Sandy Larsen]

On 7/12/2022 at 2:19 AM, Cory Santos said:

Sandy, start a new thread and let’s hear your theory and see what everyone says.  So far I don’t see agree with you but let’s see this in a new thread. 

 

Cory,

Years ago I was researching this topic live on this forum, along with Thomas Graves on some parts of it. My/our research covers many topics and subtopics, and are spread across numerous threads. The most memorable of which was the discovery of the location of Gloria Calvery in the Darnell film.

All that research resulted in my conclusion that the 2nd floor encounter between Baker and Oswald never happened, and shortly thereafter I came to understand the reason the encounter was fabricated. (Actually, one of the reasons.)

I then figured out how the government altered documents to support the faked encounter. Upon removing the alterations, what I was left with was Oswald saying in his interrogation that he was outside with Shelley during the shooting.

So, while I was surprised a year or two later when Bart Kamp found the Hosty interrogation notes, it didn't surprise me at all that Oswald's alibi was indeed being outside to watch the presidential parade.

(BTW, the discovery that Oswald was outside during the parade was the impetus for my getting off the fence and accepting that Prayer Man was probably Oswald.)

Now, it was my intention to write a (lengthy) thread tying together what I'd learned from all my other threads. However, that didn't happen due to an incident that landed me in the hospital ICU. That was in the summer of 2018.

My health hasn't been the same since, and I no longer have plans to document my findings.

Thankfully it's not a total loss because Bart Kamp and his guys at ROKC came to the same conclusion. And in fact, they've done a whole lot more work than I've done and have documented every bit of it.

I suggest you read that.

 

[Sean Coleman]

5 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Cory,

Years ago I was researching this topic live on this forum, along with Thomas Graves on some parts of it. My/our research covers many topics and subtopics, and are spread across numerous threads. The most memorable of which was the discovery of the location of Gloria Calvery in the Darnell film.

All that research resulted in my conclusion that the 2nd floor encounter between Baker and Oswald never happened, and shortly thereafter I came to understand the reason the encounter was fabricated. (Actually, one of the reasons.)

I then figured out how the government altered documents to support the faked encounter. Upon removing the alterations, what I was left with was Oswald saying in his interrogation that he was outside with Shelley during the shooting.

So, while I was surprised a year or two later when Bart Kamp found the Hosty interrogation notes, it didn't surprise me at all that Oswald's alibi was indeed being outside to watch the presidential parade.

(BTW, the discovery that Oswald was outside during the parade was the impetus for my getting off the fence and accepting that Prayer Man was probably Oswald.)

Now, it was my intention to write a (lengthy) thread tying together what I'd learned from all my other threads. However, that didn't happen due to an incident that landed me in the hospital ICU. That was in the summer of 2018.

My health hasn't been the same since, and I no longer have plans to document my findings.

Thankfully it's not a total loss because Bart Kamp and his guys at ROKC came to the same conclusion. And in fact, they've done a whole lot more work than I've done and have documented every bit of it.

I suggest you read that.

 

(Sorry for being off topic but..) Sandy, where is Thomas graves? He was fun. 

[Sandy Larsen]

52 minutes ago, Sean Coleman said:

(Sorry for being off topic but..) Sandy, where is Thomas graves? He was fun. 

 

Last time I saw him he was posting over on Duncan McRae's forum (jfkassassinationforum.com) because, you know, they don't have any standards over there.

Just (half) kidding!!!

But that was a couple years ago and I don't go over there very often. So I don't know if he is still posting there or not.

Tommy could get real irritating if you didn't agree with him on something. But he sure came up with some good catches.

 

[David Von Pein]

On 7/7/2022 at 2:49 AM, Tom Gram said:

The point is that Wade and the DPD have a known history of fabricating evidence and extracting false confessions. Does that not impugn the integrity of at least some of the evidence against Oswald?

Anyone interested in just how bad the DPD were under Wade should read this:

Ricky Dale Wyatt vs. City of Dallas et al

It’s a very interesting read: there’s fabricated evidence, blatant lying, bogus lineups… the whole nine yards. I think that some of the officers named in this suit were also involved in the JFK case.

There was also Randall Adams, made famous by Errol Morris in the Thin Blue Line, which is required viewing for anyone interested in the Dallas Police. 

A quick Google search shows that it’s still happening today: https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/police-lies-dont-shock-these-attorneys-anymore-12518408

I also stumbled on a case from 1979 where a Dallas cop was convicted of murder for trying to coerce a confession from a suspect by playing Russian roulette: 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Santos_Rodriguez

Is it really rational to assume that the Dallas police were beyond reproach on the JFK case? I’m gonna have to go with no. 

My thanks to Tom Gram for the post above, plus some other good observations he has made since recently joining this forum on June 26.

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Tom Gram]

7 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

My thanks to Tom Gram for the post above, plus some other good observations he has made since recently joining this forum on June 26.

 

Thanks David. The Ricky Dale Wyatt case especially is quite the trip. I vaguely recall determining that the “Officer Macdonald” individually named as a defendant in the lawsuit was Nick, but I can’t find that information anymore so I could be wrong.

You also reminded me that I wanted to rewatch Thin Blue Line - maybe I’ll do that today. Cheers. 

[Mervyn Hagger]

What became of this thread?

David Von Pein has uploaded a lot of evidential information over a long period of time and it has provoked a lot of hostile response. Clearly David has painted himself into a corner supporting the official version of events, and it would be very difficult for him to change his stance without undermining everything that he seems to represent by his work.

On the other hand a lot comments in this thread seem to be fragmentary whereas Pein's are very comprehensive.

So it would be very informative if this particular thread is kept in play because my own brush with this topic has been due to following another body of work related to the claimed history of broadcasting. However, the accepted version of events in that so-called history of broadcasting is anything but a true representation of past events. That is where the JFK-RFK topic involving Castro's Cuba and broadcasting collide, because beneath the veneer of the JFK-RFK and Cuba topic is a constant theme relating to broadcasting.

In that regards one man named Gordon McLendon stands out. This is due to his association with events surrounding the activities of Jack Ruby. Pushing back the clock from November 23, 1963 when Ruby shot Oswald, and the four Presidential Debates of 1960 between Nixon and Kennedy, there is a constant theme relating to a secret invasion of Cuba which began with Richard Nixon, and ended with in a convoluted debacle at the 'Bay of Pigs'.

Many of the newer threads also have references to the same topics which appear in this omnibus thread, so it would be interesting to see it continued, rather than starting more threads and rehashing information already exchanged on this thread.