Message From David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

3 minutes ago, Paul Cummings said:

Who knows.

Precisely.

And those two words apply to PM's identity as well.

[Pete Mellor]

5 minutes ago, Paul Cummings said:

Hi Pete, the question is where did they get the finger prints? From the morgue or jail?

Actually, Livingston & J.B. Hicks took Oswald's photograph and fingerprints in the Parkland morgue on Sunday night 24th.  These prints from the morgue were checked against the print card of Oswald's prints taken the previous Friday by the DPD Identification Bureau.  Apparently normal police procedure.

Also in 1992, Savage obtained another photograph of Oswald's prints from HSCA Exhibit F-400 of prints taken in New Orleans August 9th, 1963.

[James DiEugenio]

This whole piece of baloney was exposed by both Pat and Gil long ago.

The Frontline episode with Scalice was a farrago.  Maybe even worse.

Prior to Scalice, they could not get enough ID's, I think its eight.

So they got Scalice to back track on his HSCA work.  Saying that these were new, when in fact, as Pat proves, they were not a new set.

Gil goes after Scalice on the technical side, he invented a new method for print analysis.

Scalice joined the Vince Foster Newsmax crowd right after this.

Frontline also, plain flat out prevaricated on LaTona. They had to.

LaTona's testimony is probative on this.  He said he did everything he could, highlighting, sidelighting, took the whole weapon apart. Could not do it.  LaTona was the best man in America on prints.

I have that from Tanenbaum.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Paul Cummings]

8 minutes ago, Pete Mellor said:

Actually, Livingston & J.B. Hicks took Oswald's photograph and fingerprints in the Parkland morgue on Sunday night 24th.  These prints from the morgue were checked against the print card of Oswald's prints taken the previous Friday by the DPD Identification Bureau.  Apparently normal police procedure.

Also in 1992, Savage obtained another photograph of Oswald's prints from HSCA Exhibit F-400 of prints taken in New Orleans August 9th, 1963.

It's normal procedure to go to the morgue in the middle of the night to get the suspects finger/palm prints after you had him in jail? TMWKK

Edited July 8, 2022 by Paul Cummings

[James DiEugenio]

Nice point Paul. Becuase its not normal.

 

Here is a link to Speer. I disagree with Pat on Mexico City but this is very good.

https://www.patspeer.com/chapter4e-un-smoking-the-gun

[Kirk Gallaway]

This clip from TMWKK, is of funeral director Paul Groody accounting the late night visit from the FBI to obtain Oswald's prints from 3:0030 to aprox 3:03. Later, Garrison, then at 3:19-3:22. Groody's ideas after Oswald's exhumation.

Incidentally,  Starting at around 2:35 and leading up to the visit to her house after the assassination by the police at 2:57, you can judge for yourself how good a performance Ruth Paine gives in incriminating Oswald in this film. Do you think money might be a factor?             heh

During this sequences there is also Frazier, Marion Baker.

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Kirk Gallaway

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Paul Cummings said:

The question is where did they get the finger prints? From the morgue or jail?

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-203.html#Oswald-Prints

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-973.html#Oswalds-Prints

Edited July 8, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Paul Cummings]

21 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-203.html#Oswald-Prints

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-973.html#Oswalds-Prints

It was sarcasm

[Cory Santos]

4 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Well then, by the same token, why would a TSBD employee feel compelled to stay on the steps when they could have easily gone down to Elm for a closer look? That same logic would apply to TSBD workers too, right?

(Also check my edit to my last post, re: Buell Frazier.)

I would add that perhaps the person was short and wanted to be higher up from the street or, had an issue with sunlight.  Employee or stranger makes sense on the step.  

[W. Tracy Parnell]

11 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Groody's ideas after Oswald's exhumation.

Paul Groody ~ W. Tracy Parnell (wtracyparnell.blogspot.com)

[Pat Speer]

15 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Sandy/Paul, recall my post was questioning if Fritz's non use of a stenographer or tape recording of Oswald's interrogations were unusual and suspicious.  I stated that I thought it was the norm in Fritz's Homicide Dept.  I then wrote that DPD must have considered the case against Oswald for the assassination to be a 'cinch' after they found the Carcano and then lifted prints off the weapon early Friday evening.  The prints info I am taking from Savage's 'JFK First Day Evidence' Chapter IV 'The Prints'.  According to Crime lab detective R.W. Livingston, Day lifted the right middle & ring finger dabs from the trigger housing.  These prints were also checked by detective Pete Barnes on that Friday evening.  Day also states in the book that Curry was told of the prints but Day had not yet had a chance to do a comparison check with Oswald's print card.  Curry then went down to the 3rd floor and told newsmen that they had a print on the rifle.  It was after this that Day found the palm print under the barrel.  All prior to the rifle being taken to D.C.

Livingston & Savage have copies of the photographs taken in the crime lab of these prints which are of very good quality 5" x 7".  In 1992 they had these prints examined by a qualified fingerprint expert from the West Monroe Police Dept., Crime Lab.  Also the tv prog 'Frontline' examined the prints, done by Vincent J. Scalice a certified latent print examiner who was used by the HSCA in 1978.  Both tests declared that they were the prints of LHO.

Anyway, just reporting what is in 'JFK First Day Evidence'.  If you guys can shoot this down, fine.  I'm just the messenger.

The FBI had these photos and said they were too smudged for identification. Clearly, they were not.This makes me suspect the prints were not Oswald's. 

When a fingerprint examiner makes an identification, it is standard that he creates some charts matching up the suspect's print with the print found at the crime scene, or on the weapon. That Scalice did not do that, and that he instead used his newfound fame to push right-wing conspiracy theories, should lead us to question his identification of Oswald's print on the trigger guard. It should be noted, moreover, that Frontline contacted George Bonebrake, who was at that time the FBI's top fingerprint examiner (and the guy who found James Earl Ray's print on the rifle found by the rooming house) and he refused to ID the print as Oswald's print. 

[Sean Coleman]

20 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Which would not prove anything, since the "Prayer Man" figure could very easily be a non-TSBD person (i.e., a total stranger).

A stranger, who might have been looking for a good place to watch the motorcade from, might very well have climbed to the top of the Depository stairs in order to view the parade from that vantage point. And no one can possibly prove that such a scenario didn't happen.

But David….do you agree it does actually, a little wee bit, sort of resemble LHO? Hairline, height, shirt, place of work etc.?

Or is it a point blank ‘No.’  Be honest……..

[Sean Coleman]

….and with the plethora of pics/vids you have, can you find that person elsewhere? Just asking…..

[David Von Pein]

12 hours ago, Sean Coleman said:

But David….do you agree it does actually, a little wee bit, sort of resemble LHO? Hairline, height, shirt, place of work etc.?

Yes, I would agree with you there....kinda....sorta. 😇

But the films are just too low-quality and indistinct to allow us to make anything close to a positive identification of the Prayer Man figure. And that must, indeed, be very frustrating for many conspiracy believers who think Oswald was innocent of the assassination. Heck, it's even frustrating for me  as well, because I'd like to know for sure who the PM figure is too.

But there are many things that tell me PM is not LHO. The biggest of which is the fact that Oswald himself didn't tell the waiting press---on Live TV---that he was outside on the steps when JFK was being shot---and that was right after LHO was asked, point-blank, "were you in the building at the time?". And that live television broadcast at 7:55 PM CST on Nov. 22 was a TV broadcast that could not have been controlled by the "evil" DPD.

Edited July 9, 2022 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Sean Coleman said:

….and with the plethora of pics/vids you have, can you find that person elsewhere?

The person who has been labeled "Prayer Man" might very well be lurking in some of the other pictures and videos that I have on my websites. It's especially hard to know, though, because the PM figure could conceivably be almost anybody in any of the Dealey Plaza photos. My goodness, there's even been debate about whether the PM figure is a man or a woman. So when searching for him/(her) in my photo/video collection, that broadens the possibilities considerably.

Here's a good place to start looking for Prayer Man (or Woman). These two pictures below were taken very shortly after the assassination:

 

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by David Von Pein