Lee Oswald - The Cop-Killer

[Benjamin Cole]

Jim D. makes an important point.

Commissions and committee hearings do not allow for exculpatory evidence, or different viewpoints. 

They are often prosecutions without a defense, and more than often come to politically expedient conclusions.  

And standing governments do not investigate themselves. 

 

[Bill Brown]

12 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Carr could be used to corroborate the idea that there was a Rambler in the vicinity of Dealey Plaza at approximately the same time Craig said there was; but he couldn't be used to to corroborate that it was Oswald who got into it out in front of the TSBD.

 

Indeed.  Now if only Mr. Paul Cummings could (finally) get on board with this simple fact.

 

Instead of actually reading his very own citation and realizing it doesn't support his claim, he'd rather make jokes like calling me Charlie Brown.  Alrighty then.

[James DiEugenio]

Its even worse than that Ben.

See, in most congressional inquiries, you have a minority and majority counsel e g Watergate, Iran Contra.

With the WC, you did not even have that.  As both Lane and Meagher prove, the whole thing about the president of the BAR checking on the procedure, this was a joke. 

Without any kind of adversary procedure, there was no check on the prosecution.  Therefore, you had this ridiculous set of assumptions about the Tippit case.  In which, even the DPD said they did no real inquiry into it.  

The very idea that the. WC said Markham was probative stands as a memorial to their utter incompetence.  The only thing she was reliable for was the time the shooting happened.  Because after that its clear she became hysterical. Talking to a dead man, for 20 minutes, and having to get ammonia nitrate at the line up.

The Commission was really in every sense, a kangaroo court.  This is why Boggs, Cooper and Russell turned on it.  And why Ford told the president of France they knew an organization had killed JFK.  But they could not find out what it was. So right there, it is a minority report.

And let us never forget what Hoover said about why Oswald did not shoot Kennedy coming up Houston: trees were in the way.  That is what Hoover thought of the Kennedy case.  So for anyone to take them seriously in this day and age, I mean, c'mon.  🤮

Edited July 19, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Paul Cummings]

1 hour ago, Bill Brown said:

Indeed.  Now if only Mr. Paul Cummings could (finally) get on board with this simple fact.

 

Instead of actually reading his very own citation and realizing it doesn't support his claim, he'd rather make jokes like calling me Charlie Brown.  Alrighty then.

My apologies. Carr coroborrated Craigs man of getting into the Nash Rambler but did not say it was Oswald. The reason why I said Charlie Brown was because of the "good grief" you said at the end. 

[Sandy Larsen]

On 7/18/2022 at 2:51 AM, David Von Pein said:

On 7/17/2022 at 6:22 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

That's highly doubtful given that Tippit was already at the hospital at 1:15.

Which is, of course, impossible since we have TWO different sources for the ambulance being en route to Tenth & Patton at 1:18 (the Dudley Hughes call slip + DPD radio tapes).

You think BOTH sources were wrong---to the exact same (wrong) minute??!

 

They were both altered. They had to be in order to give pretend-Oswald enough time to arrive at Tippit's location and shoot him.

If one accepts that those two alterations occurred, then the remaining evidence makes sense and indicates approximately 1:06 PM as the time Tippit was shot. The death certificate showing a DOA arrival time of 1:15 PM also makes sense.

If one doesn't accept those two alterations, then one has to explain all the evidence pointing to the 1:06 PM shooting, and the impossible 1:15 PM DOA time. In addition, one has to explain why the DPD radio log indicates no arrival at the hospital of Tippit's ambulance and the squad car following it.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

My Tippit Scene Timeline (posted earlier) shows the following estimated time for the arrival of the ambulance:

1:10 - The ambulance arrives and the body is loaded.

Well, well, well... guess what time the DPD radio log gives for the arrival of the ambulance? That's right, 1:10 PM, exactly as I estimated!

Oops! It looks like whoever it was that altered the tapes accidentally missed an important time stamp!

Following is the relevant part of the log, copied from WC Exhibit 705. Each message here shows whose talking first, underlined, and then what they say. 602 and 603 are ambulances, with 602 being the one that serviced Tippit. Pay attention to the messages I bolded.

 

Dispatcher
     10-4, 69, Code 3.

602
     602 Code 5.  [code 5 means they are on their way]

211
     211.

Dispatcher
     211.

211
     We're clear at Industrial and Stemmons . Will go on out there.

Dispatcher
     10-4, 211.

15
     15 .

603
     603 Code 5 Baylor.

602
     Code 6.  [code 6 means they have arrived (at Tippit's location)]

Dispatcher
     10-4 603 and 602, 1:10 p.m.  [dispatcher acknowledges their messages]

 

[Sandy Larsen]

17 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

602
     Code 6.  [code 6 means the ambulance has arrived (at Tippit's location)]

Dispatcher
     10-4 603 and 602, 1:10 p.m.  [dispatcher acknowledges their messages]

 

Let's see now... even though the ambulance was nearby, it took a little while to get to the Tippit scene because they had the wrong address. Let's just guesstimate it took a couple minutes after they got the call to arrive.

So let's say they got the call at 1:08 PM. That way they will arrive at the established time, 1:10 PM.

1:08 PM is the time they put on their sheet. Later, during cover up phase, when the government needed to allow more time for pretend-Oswald to arrive, they simply overtyped the 0 with a 1, thus changing the ambulance call time to 1:18 PM.

And this is the time Bill and DVP have fallen for.

Too bad for the coverup artists that they were betrayed by: the witness statements, the 1:15 PM DOA time, and the 1:10 PM radio log timestamp that was accidentally overlooked in the cover-up

Well, these unfortunate blunders do happen in cover-ups.

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Sandy Larsen

[Sandy Larsen]

Did everybody get that? Bill and DVP say the ambulance left the station at 1:18 to pick up Tippit. That is the time printed on the station's time sheet.

But that's impossible because the ambulance had already arrived at the Tippit scene eight minutes before then. And Tippit's body was already at the hospital three minutes before then.

How can Bill and DVP possibly believe that altered ambulance time sheet??

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Sandy Larsen

[Gene Kelly]

This is very good digging Sandy ... 

[David Von Pein]

29 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

How can Bill and DVP possibly believe that altered ambulance time sheet??

Good! More "altered" evidence!

When a JFK researcher needs to have SO MUCH "altered evidence" and SO MANY "coerced" and/or "lying" witnesses to make their conspiracy case float....isn't it time to step back and re-assess your thinking a little bit?

I would certainly think so.

Edited July 19, 2022 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

14 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

The only thing she [Helen Markham] was reliable for was the time the shooting happened. 

And yet I'm told that it's only the LNers who pick and choose.

Looks like James DiEugenio of Los Angeles does it too. He's really fond of that "1:06" timestamp that Markham puts on the Tippit shooting, but Jim is quite willing and eager to toss Helen under the bus she was trying to catch when it comes to everything else she said.

How nice.

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Steve Thomas]

3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Following is the relevant part of the log, copied from WC Exhibit 705. Each message here shows whose talking first, underlined, and then what they say. 602 and 603 are ambulances, with 602 being the one that serviced Tippit. Pay attention to the messages I bolded.

 

Dispatcher
     10-4, 69, Code 3.

602
     602 Code 5.  [code 5 means they are on their way]

211
     211.

Dispatcher
     211.

211
     We're clear at Industrial and Stemmons . Will go on out there.

Dispatcher
     10-4, 211.

 

 

Sandy,

Just for info's sake, Unit 211 is Partolmen Ray Hawkins and Elmer Baggett.

Here's what Hawkins told the WC:

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/hawkins.htm

 

Mr. BALL. Now, did you later hear that Officer Tippit had been killed?
Mr. HAWKINS. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BALL. Did you make a note of the time, or do you have any memory of the approximate time that you heard that report?
Mr. HAWKINS. I would say in the vicinity of around 1 p.m.--I'm not sure what time it was, because I didn't make any notes. As I said, we were on an accident at the time---I cleared from the call about the time we heard this information.
Mr. BALL. And you got that information over the police radio?
Mr. HAWKINS. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BALL. Tell me, did you receive any instructions as to what to do?
Mr. HAWKINS. No, sir; I did not. They called--I heard a citizen come in on the radio and state that an officer had been shot and it looked like he was dead. We had just finished the accident at this time and I was driving an officer, Baggett, and I proceeded to Oak Cliff to the general vicinity of the call after checking out with the dispatcher, stating that we were proceeding in that direction.
We arrived in Oak Cliff and there were several squads in the general vicinity of where the shooting had occurred---different stories had come out that the person was--the suspect had been seen in the immediate vicinity.
Mr. BALL. Did you go to 10th and Patton?
Mr. HAWKINS. We drove by 10th and Patton--we didn't stop at the location.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go then?
Mr. HAWKINS. We circled the vicinity around Jefferson and Marsalis and in that area,

Steve Thomas

[Sandy Larsen]

2 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

When a JFK researcher needs to have SO MUCH "altered evidence" and SO MANY "coerced" and/or "lying" witnesses to make their conspiracy case float....isn't it time to step back and re-assess your thinking a little bit?

 

It's no worse than what you do David. Except you say it is the witnesses who are wrong. And non-governmental documents too. (Like the death certificate in this case.)

Well I believe the witnesses and don't believe the government. The witnesses have no reason to lie but the government does.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

6 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

20 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

The only thing she [Helen Markham] was reliable for was the time the shooting happened. 

 

6 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

And yet I'm told that it's only the LNers who pick and choose.

Looks like James DiEugenio of Los Angeles does it too. He's really fond of that "1:06" timestamp that Markham puts on the Tippit shooting, but Jim is quite willing and eager to toss Helen under the bus she was trying to catch when it comes to everything else she said.

 

Helen Markham didn't lie about the time because she wasn't tricked or coached when telling about it. But she was tricked into picking Oswald in the lineup, and that surely explains her being unreliable with her testimony regarding that.

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Sandy Larsen

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

It's no worse than what you do David. Except you say it is the witnesses who are wrong.

Many witnesses were wrong about many things. But that's a whole lot different than accusing the witnesses of lying.

CTers have a list of  l i a r s  as long as my arm -- e.g., Truly, Baker, Frazier, Randle, Humes, Boswell, Brennan, Callaway, the Paines, Marina, and many others.

My list of provable  l-i-a-r-s  has only two people on it: Roger Craig and Jean Hill.

 

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Well I believe the witnesses and don't believe the government.

Do you believe Roger Craig's tale about seeing the words "7.65 Mauser" stamped on the TSBD rifle?

And do you believe Jean Hill's late-arriving story about actually seeing a gunman fire at JFK from the Grassy Knoll?

 

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

The witnesses have no reason to lie but the government does.

So you say.

And it's a nice convenient excuse for CTers to use too --- i.e., The Government has a reason to lie and cover stuff up, so that's what they positively did do in the JFK case.

To that, I say Hogwash!

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by David Von Pein