No one asks this question of Paine or Marina

[David Von Pein]

57 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

What kind of highway is a limited access highway?  A toll road?  From Irving to Dallas?  Irving Boulevard wasn't a highway or a toll road.  Pretty much the only access from Irving to Dallas at the time.  My grandparents lived in Irving at the time.  I remember going out Irving Boulevard to Dallas with my mother and grandmother, stopping to shop at the railroad salvage warehouse.

A sign pointing to the old TSBD from a highway?  This was an irrelevant industrial business three blocks from Stemmons Freeway, two lanes each way at the time.  Which Ruth wouldn't have traveled on at the time to get to Dallas.

The seven story TSBD in 1963 had a HERTZ sign on top of it.  Was Texas School Book Depository even on the front door?

Back to this topic for a moment longer. I think I know what "sign on a building" Ruth Paine was talking about when she said this in her 1964 Warren Commission testimony:

"I had seen a sign on a building as I went along one of the limited access highways that leads into Dallas, saying "Texas School Book Depository Warehouse"..."

I think what Ruth Paine was talking about there was almost certainly the west side of the TSBD Building on Elm Street, which has "Texas School Book Depository" written in fairly large letters at the very top of the building on the west side (the side of the building that faces Stemmons Freeway; see my photos below). And she thought (incorrectly) that this was the "warehouse" building (which was actually located on Houston Street). The Elm St. building is, in actuality, a "warehouse" as well. So I guess we could all now argue about that fact too.

Now, it's true that the word "Warehouse" does not appear on any side of the TSBD Building on Elm Street, and I suppose it's possible that the Houston St. building might have a similar sign on it somewhere that does say "TSBD Warehouse". But I'm guessing she remembers seeing the very noticeable "TSBD" lettering on the Elm Street building, and she just didn't associate "Elm Street" with that building for some reason.

 

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

18 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

Umm yes it was.   Go back and check and your response.  

You never said "11:30". You said 12:30. Why would you care where Ruby was at 11:30 anyway? There wasn't any Presidential assassination occurring at that time. The shooting happened at 12:30. So why would Ruby need an "alibi" at 11:30 AM?

Edited July 23, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Cory Santos]

18 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

No it wasn't.

Typo.  Cmon man!   I originally asked about 12:30 and you responded about 12:30.   Your cite respectfully is wrong as noted above.   Please admit that as a gentleman.  

[David Von Pein]

7 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

Typo.  Cmon man!   I originally asked about 12:30 and you responded about 12:30.   Your cite respectfully is wrong as noted above.   Please admit that as a gentleman.  

OK. So your 11:30 was a typo. Fair enough.

My Newnam cite was for approx. the time of the assassination. Yes, Newnam says 12:40, and Ruby was sitting in his office at that time. Ruby himself said he was at the DMN at the time of the assassination. But I don't think you're ready to start believing anything uttered by Mr. Ruby, are you Cory?

But tell me again WHY Ruby needs an alibi for 12:30 on 11/22? Are you actually suggesting to me that you think Ruby shot JFK? Or was in Dealey Plaza as a member of the "hit team" or something? Is that what you think?

Edited July 23, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Cory Santos]

3 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

OK. So your 11:30 was a typo. Fair enough.

My Newnam cite was for approx. the time of the assassination. Yes, Newnam says 12:40, and Ruby was sitting in his office at that time. Ruby himself said he was at the DMN at the time of the assassination. But I don't think you're ready to start believing anything uttered by Mr. Ruby, are you Cory?

But tell me again WHY Ruby needs an alibi for 12:30 on 11/22? Are you actually suggesting to me that you think Ruby shot JFK? Or was in Dealey Plaza as a member of the "hit team" or something? Is that what you think?

Anyone who needs an alibi needs a lawyer.   That is my answer.   Now, you just asked if I believe what he says.   Ok!  Let’s say I do.   Do you DVP find all his statements credible and believable then?

Edited July 23, 2022 by Cory Santos

[David Von Pein]

45 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

Do you DVP find all his [Ruby's] statements credible and believable then?

For the most part, yes. His reasons for killing Oswald have shifted from one thing to another over a period of time. But, in his mind, I think ALL of those reasons might have some truth in them. E.G., sparing Jackie the ordeal of a trial; wanting to show the world that Jews have guts; etc.

And since I firmly believe that Jack Ruby was not involved in ANY type of conspiracy or plot in Nov. of 1963, I therefore do not think that Ruby had any real reason to lie his head off about anything he did in Nov. of '63.

IOW, truly innocent people don't need to lie (and by "innocent", I mean innocent of being part of any conspiracy). And I don't think Ruby did lie. His polygraph exam WAS a bit of a joke, though, I must admit. It was just goofy all the way around. But he DID insist (beg) to have it administered to him. Which is a very important point, IMO.

Edited July 23, 2022 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

37 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

Anyone who needs an alibi needs a lawyer.

What are you talking about? Ruby didn't need any "alibi" on November 22nd at all. I know of no one who seriously believes that Jack Ruby shot John Kennedy.

Edited July 23, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Cory Santos]

44 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

What are you talking about? Ruby didn't need any "alibi" on November 22nd at all. I know of no one who seriously believes that Jack Ruby shot John Kennedy.

You missed what I said above then.  Get some sleep and read it again tomorrow.   Thanks for the lovely discussion tonight.  

[Cory Santos]

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

(Okay, I'll play since I just happen to be here at this time.)

Yes, of course the action was at the parade route. Hands down correct answer.

 

Correct.  

[Cory Santos]

2 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I came into this thread because I saw it was hot! honestly i don't think this conversation is going anywhere. Dave has the most knowledge about the situation and said Ruth had taken her daughter to the dentist that morning. That's the most substantive information revealed here concerning this  question.

People don't attend baseball games, football games, political rallies, the President visiting for any one of a number of reasons, including previous scheduling they had. A person more into politics could just as likely not attend such an event as a person with no interest other than to just be "part of a scene" could attend.

There are people who just don't attend any events like these. RP could be such a person. Maybe, they don't like the crowds and they don't want the added hassle of having to watch over their children, and have to tend to their needs in crowds.

Your speculating though.    The question still has not been answered.   It needs to be asked.   

[David Von Pein]

6 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

You missed what I said above then.

Where? Which post? (Thanks.)

[Kirk Gallaway]

14 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

Your question  was: Why did Ruth Paine and Marina not go down to watch the motorcade?

My answer

People don't attend baseball games, football games, political rallies, the President visiting for any one of a number of reasons, including previous scheduling they had. A person more into politics could just as likely not attend such an event as a person with no interest other than to just be "part of a scene" could attend.

There are people who just don't attend any events like these. RP could be such a person. Maybe, they don't like the crowds and they don't want the added hassle of having to watch over their children, and have to tend to their needs in crowds.

Then you asked: Corey; Your speculating though.    The question still has not been answered.   It needs to be asked.   

 

I was enumerating the reasons why the question can't be answered. Honestly,as far as establishing evidentiary value,  I don't see the question itself as having much practical utility.

[James DiEugenio]

Cory, I am sure you are aware of this.

There are photos of what appear to be Ruby in Dealey Plaza.

Ever Richard Trask admits this in his book.

Ruby did mention something about Fireworks that day.

Its ridiculous to say Ruby was a marksman..  But if he was part of the plot, as Julia Ann Mercer clearly suggests, then I would think he would be interested in if the fireworks hit the target.

Was he there?  We don't know, but Jack lied about a lot of things.

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Allen Lowe]

I have been to many a parade and march and political rally in my 68 years, and not once have I referred to “fireworks.“ Or heard reference to such. Anyone who believes in this much coincidence or accident of expression is clearly deluding themselves

Edited July 23, 2022 by Allen Lowe

[Joe Bauer]

It seems so obvious why Ruth Paine and Marina wouldn't have gone downtown to watch the parade.

For all the common sense reasons stated here.

You've got things to do such as a child's dental appointment and other errands.

There were parents with children, but how many pictures of the Dallas motorcade crowd show women holding diapered babies in their arms, let alone a one month old?

Traffic and parking would have been a mess and with 3 children and one infant you really don't want to have to park blocks away and then walk to a good view spot.

How about  going down and parking near the TXSCBD building and maybe arrange for a picnic lunch with Lee on the grassy knoll? Ha!

Every parking space was taken in that area and even Lee Bowers said the lot between him and the picket fence was quite full.

Ruth Paine did turn on her TV that morning to see the latest JFK Dallas visit news and even "left it on" after she left in case Marina ( who liked to stay in bed longer ) might be able to see something herself regards JFK and Jackie's visit when she did arise.

How often did Ruth ever do that?

That shows some notable interest in JFK's visit and parade on Ruth's part imo.

And as Kirk G. mentioned, a good percentage of people don't feel comfortable in large crowd settings. It's a very, very common mentality. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by Joe Bauer