No one asks this question of Paine or Marina

[Cory Santos]

2 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

As stated earlier, Ruby liked to be where the action was. And the DPD/City Hall was certainly the place with all the big "action" on Friday night, November 22nd. (I'm sure you'll agree with that.)

 

But the”action” was Dealey Plaza or along the parade route not in a smelly stuffy gross newspaper room.  Explain that because it is incongruent with what you just said was true.  

[Cory Santos]

While David answers can I get a quick vote?    Who thinks the action was at the newsroom or along the parade route?

[Sandy Larsen]

5 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

While David answers can I get a quick vote?    Who thinks the action was at the newsroom or along the parade route?

 

(Okay, I'll play since I just happen to be here at this time.)

Yes, of course the action was at the parade route. Hands down correct answer.

 

[David Von Pein]

11 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

But the ”action” was Dealey Plaza or along the parade route, not in a smelly stuffy gross newspaper room. Explain that, because it is incongruent with what you just said was true.  

Yes, in this instance I agree with you. It is incongruent. I have often wondered why Ruby didn't want to watch any part of the motorcade. I even mentioned it earlier in this thread---in this post.

But, again, it's not a crime to NOT watch a motorcade go by.

Edited July 23, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Cory Santos]

5 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Yes, in this instance I agree with you. It is incongruent. I have often wondered why Ruby didn't want to watch any part of the motorcade. I even mentioned it earlier in this thread---in this post.

But, again, it's not a crime to NOT watch a motorcade go by.

Thank you David.   
 

[Kirk Gallaway]

I came into this thread because I saw it was hot! honestly i don't think this conversation is going anywhere. Dave has the most knowledge about the situation and said Ruth had taken her daughter to the dentist that morning. That's the most substantive information revealed here concerning this  question.

People don't attend baseball games, football games, political rallies, the President visiting for any one of a number of reasons, including previous scheduling they had. A person more into politics could just as likely not attend such an event as a person with no interest other than to just be "part of a scene" could attend.

There are people who just don't attend any events like these. RP could be such a person. Maybe, they don't like the crowds and they don't want the added hassle of having to watch over their children, and have to tend to their needs in crowds.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Kirk Gallaway

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

You've just mangled her testimony completely, Ron. Read it again. She never once said she actually passed right by the warehouse building itself. She said she saw the SIGN while she was driving on a limited access highway leading into Dallas. Here's her testimony (yet again):

RUTH PAINE -- "I had seen a sign on a building as I went along one of the limited access highways that leads into Dallas, saying "Texas School Book Depository Warehouse" and there was the only building that had registered on my consciousness as being Texas School Book Depository. I was not aware, hadn't taken in the idea of there being two buildings and that there was one on Elm, though, I copied the address from the telephone book, and could well have made that notation in my mind but I didn't. The first I realized that there was a building on Elm was when I heard on the television on the morning of the 22nd of November that a shot had been fired from such a building."

What kind of highway is a limited access highway?  A toll road?  From Irving to Dallas?  Irving Boulevard wasn't a highway or a toll road.  Pretty much the only access from Irving to Dallas at the time.  My grandparents lived in Irving at the time.  I remember going out Irving Boulevard to Dallas with my mother and grandmother, stopping to shop at the railroad salvage warehouse.

A sign pointing to the old TSBD from a highway?  This was an irrelevant industrial business three blocks from Stemmons Freeway, two lanes each way at the time.  Which Ruth wouldn't have traveled on at the time to get to Dallas.

The seven story TSBD in 1963 had a HERTZ sign on top of it.  Was Texas School Book Depository even on the front door?

So.  She copied the address from the phone book.  A new phone book with the new address as they'd just moved there?  In nearly 60 years has anyone ever asked her about any of this in further depth?   

Max Good made a nice start. 

[James DiEugenio]

I agree Ron, it took 59 years to make a dent. What a disgrace.

But i do give Richard Russell credit.  He once said about the Paines, words to the effect, they have to be the Good Samaritans to end all Good Samaritans. Now that is thinking like a lawyer. Which he was.

[David Von Pein]

1 minute ago, James DiEugenio said:

I agree Ron, it took 59 years to make a dent. What a disgrace.

No, Jim. The real "disgrace" is the way you and other conspiracy theorists have treated Ruth Paine. You have absolutely ZERO proof to back up this repulsive quote that you made at this forum nine years ago:

"Who can believe these people [Ruth & Michael Paine]? Both of them as phony as three dollar bills." -- James DiEugenio; April 13, 2013

 

[David Von Pein]

2 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

A sign pointing to the old TSBD from a highway?  This was an irrelevant industrial business three blocks from Stemmons Freeway, two lanes each way at the time.  Which Ruth wouldn't have traveled on at the time to get to Dallas.

For Pete sake, Ron. What you're saying here is absurd! You actually seem to be making the ludicrous assumption that Ruth Paine could NEVER have travelled on Stemmons Freeway (which was certainly a "limited access highway" in 1963) at any time during October and November of 1963. Why would you suggest such a thing? You have no idea what roads she might have used on any given day during those two months.

Edited July 23, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Cory Santos]

So let’s sum up some things but first, 

earlier I asked David and he responded:

Where was he [Jack Ruby]? Need proof and citation exactly where he was at 12:30. Thanks.  

Jack Ruby was in the office of a Mr. John W. Newnam at the Dallas Morning News building at precisely 12:30 PM CST on 11/22/63 AD. (Witnessed by Newnam. See his testimony below.)

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/newnam.htm

 

 

Point 1.   Ladies and gentlemen of the Jury, by the testimony of Mr Newman, which Mr. Von Pein acknowledged as credible and believable, If we also find that testimony credible and believable  too, we know that Jack Ruby was in the newspaper building at 1240. We know that they learned of JFK’s assassination at approximately 12:45.   My question was where was Jack Ruby at 12:30? Mr. Von Pein still has not answered that question because he cannot because the source he cited does not discuss this time.

In fact we don’t have any clear citation or proof in the record, which is verifiable, where Jack Ruby was at 12:30 in Dallas, let alone at the time of the assassination according to Mr. Von Pein.  
Admirably, Mr. Von Pein admits to the incongruity of the fact that Jack Ruby was not in Dealey Plaza or along the motorcade route even though that is where the “action was”.  This admission is significant.   Because when someone acts outside their character we have to ask questions and we need answers to those questions before we can truly ascertain the truth which is what we’re here today for! Why then was he at the police department on Friday night or for that matter at the jail on Sunday if it was just for the action.  We have already shown in his character that he did not always act in accordance with this rule.  So why was the police department so important but the newspaper room was more important than the motorcade? The obvious answer is the easiest one, that is, he needed an alibi.

We have proven tonight that both sides of the debate agree if Jack Ruby was going to go somewhere there was a purpose. Following that logic he was definitely at the newspaper room for a purpose, that is for an alibi. We choose this over the alternative of him placing an ad because of the other rule which Mr. Von Pein has created, that being Ruby wanted to be where the action was and being in the newsroom violated this rule. Therefore, there was a serious reason for him to be there to overturn his character personality.  He was at the Dallas Police Department for a purpose and at the jail for a purpose. It’s probably no coincidence where he had dinner the night before he went to the jail either, which by the way I recommend because they have some of the best food in Dallas.  

In this frank discussion we’ve also discussed Ruth Paine and Marina Oswald and the obvious incongruences in the facts before us. When I asked the obvious question why they did not go down to see the motorcade, like Jack Ruby, It was brought to my attention by Mr. Von Pein RP did not know the parade route went by LHOs place of work because she did not know it was on Elm.  Citing basic sources it is indisputable that on two occasions prior to the assassination, contrary to her testimony, she saw the address of the book depository being at Elm Street.  These are facts and one could even speculate further that it is odd that she didn’t know where the building was especially considering she had mentioned to her neighbors daughter that she had called to help LHO get a job there.  Frasier admitted this much and that he had been working there before Oswald for several weeks.   The obvious question then, are we to believe that neither Frasier nor LHO ever mentioned the book depository location to RP but she freely discussed LHO w Truly and Frazier’s sister?  We know for a fact that the parade motorcade and visit was mentioned the night before at the Paine household.  Considering she received her newspapers in the morning, is one to really believe she did not look at the parade route and notice that she could just drive down and bring marina -who admittedly was interested in the visit- and the children, all because the dentist treasure box was calling?  Are we really to believe that when she helped LHO move that she did not notice his rifle which he allegedly owned at the time?  Even if we give her the benefit of the doubt on that, which we probably should as we have no reason not to, are we then going to take the next leap and believe that this pacifist (a self description she used) didn’t know that a rifle was located in her garage on the floor where her children or Marina’s child - the non infant-could have found it?  Or what about the other people she testified that came in and out of her household? Even if we believe that and again give her the benefit of the doubt, her testimony about the location of the building is extremely suspicious and highly doubtful which calls into question the rest of her testimony. On two occasions she looked and saw the address for the book depository showing it on Elm Street.  She even called the depository and talked with Roy Truly.  Making a most likely third notice of its location probable.  It is extremely unlikely she did not discuss the location considering LHO did not drive- per her testimony.  
So what? One might ask. Certainly not everyone in Dallas that day went downtown to the motorcade to see the parade. But we are not talking about all those other people, we are talking about specific people such as Jack Ruby who had a personality and character that would mandate he go to where the action was, i.e., Dealey Plaza or the parade route.  His actions that day were out of character unless there was another reason, that is he needed an alibi.  As for RP and Marina, again Marina was reliant on RP for a drive so that is easily excused. But this event was so big it makes no sense that RP would not go with Marina and the children.  There is no evidence she did not like crowds.   To the contrary.    She met the Oswald’s at a party and described her life as “boring”.    Why would she therefore not go to be part of the “action”.  As I said in the beginning no one has truly asked her this question and had it answered. Instead, all we have is her stating where she was that morning. But that is not an answer to this question. I submit to you that there are many coincidences in this historical event that are just that, coincidences. But when you have too many, they become what I call “strange coincidences” and too many equal something wrong.   On the facts we discussed tonight, there are way too many “strange coincidences”.  When this happens, you have something other than a mere coincidence.  The relevance at this point needs to be determined with follow-up questions to her focusing on these incongruences. As for Ruby, it is clear his actions prove he had a purpose other than placing an ad or filing a missing dog report.   
Lastly if someone wants to make this out to be an attack on RP then they are the one with the problem. This is a simple question and search for the truth which is what the education forum is supposed to be about.

 🎤 drop.  

Edited July 23, 2022 by Cory Santos

[Kirk Gallaway]

The Russell comment was always   interesting Jim. But it  doesn't address Corey's question at all.

As far as Ron's comment. Ron, You'd be amazed. If people were asked to line up the stores on a route they may have traveled home from work for 20 years, they couldn't remember. You may have a very vivid memory as a child going from Irving to Dallas with your Mother and Grandmother. But this is just the kind of information, people don't remember, lining up signs with buildings. For example, I can go through ugly parts of town and subconsciously erase any memory. It's very difficult to presume people's memories on such information.

We were going a little off topic and  indirectly hitting on a question I would ask of DVP. But I don't want to hijack this thread.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Kirk Gallaway

[David Von Pein]

15 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

My question was where was Jack Ruby at 11:30?

No it wasn't.

[Cory Santos]

Just now, David Von Pein said:

No it wasn't.

Umm yes it was.   Go back and check and your response.  

[Cory Santos]

2 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Jack Ruby was in the office of a Mr. John W. Newnam at the Dallas Morning News building at precisely 12:30 PM CST on 11/22/63 AD. (Witnessed by Newnam. See his testimony below.)

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/newnam.htm

 

For evidence.