Benjamin Cole Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 Vince Palamara: Well! The Secret Service is in the news again, and that is your bailiwick. Recently, news reports have been floated out, based on commentary by Liz Cheney, that the Secret Service is not cooperating with the 1/6 committee. From what I read, The [Secret Service] director is appointed by, and serves at the pleasure of the president of the United States, and is not subject to Senate confirmation.[5] The director reports to the secretary of homeland security, and operates with the general directions thereof.--Wiki OK, so the present Director of the Secret Service, James M. Murray, serves at the pleasure of President Biden, could be fired in a minute, and also reports to Biden's Secy of Homeland Security, Alejandro Mayorkas. If the Secret Service is not cooperating with the 1/6 committee...what gives? Murray is not cooperating? Is the Secret Service a renegade agency? Part of the Deep State, beyond real control by elected officials, meaning President Biden and Secy Mayorkas? Or is Biden complacent, or possibly unaware of circumstances? Does the Secret Service, with connection to the shadow state, have compromising information on Biden? The 1/6 committee has shown its resolve; it is having Steve Bannon thrown behind bars for failing to comply with a subpoena. Fine by me. Are Secret Service agents somehow exempt from congressional subpoenas? I do not understand why the 1/6 committee does not subpoena those agents it wants to testify, under penalty of incarceration if they do not comply. And if perjury, then jail also. Are Secret Service agents, by law or custom, considered above Congressional inquiry? Thanks for your insights..... Interesting story. Keep an open mind.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 3 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: Vince Palamara: Well! The Secret Service is in the news again, and that is your bailiwick. Recently, news reports have been floated out, based on commentary by Liz Cheney, that the Secret Service is not cooperating with the 1/6 committee. From what I read, The [Secret Service] director is appointed by, and serves at the pleasure of the president of the United States, and is not subject to Senate confirmation.[5] The director reports to the secretary of homeland security, and operates with the general directions thereof.--Wiki OK, so the present Director of the Secret Service, James M. Murray, serves at the pleasure of President Biden, could be fired in a minute, and also reports to Biden's Secy of Homeland Security, Alejandro Mayorkas. If the Secret Service is not cooperating with the 1/6 committee...what gives? Murray is not cooperating? Is the Secret Service a renegade agency? Part of the Deep State, beyond real control by elected officials, meaning President Biden and Secy Mayorkas? Or is Biden complacent, or possibly unaware of circumstances? Does the Secret Service, with connection to the shadow state, have compromising information on Biden? The 1/6 committee has shown its resolve; it is having Steve Bannon thrown behind bars for failing to comply with a subpoena. Fine by me. Are Secret Service agents somehow exempt from congressional subpoenas? I do not understand why the 1/6 committee does not subpoena those agents it wants to testify, under penalty of incarceration if they do not comply. And if perjury, then jail also. Are Secret Service agents, by law or custom, considered above Congressional inquiry? Thanks for your insights..... Interesting story. Keep an open mind.... To my understanding, a criminal investigation has been launched into the disappearance of the texts. In most circumstances, people under criminal investigation won't testify before congress unless promised immunity. So the 1/6 committee has stepped aside while the DOJ does its job. But I wouldn't be surprised if we hear more on this when the hearings resume... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted July 26, 2022 Author Share Posted July 26, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Pat Speer said: To my understanding, a criminal investigation has been launched into the disappearance of the texts. In most circumstances, people under criminal investigation won't testify before congress unless promised immunity. So the 1/6 committee has stepped aside while the DOJ does its job. But I wouldn't be surprised if we hear more on this when the hearings resume... OK...but on the two Secret Service guys who were in the "The Beast," or another vehicle in which Trump did, or did not, attempt to wrest the wheel of the vehicle...why have they not been subpoenaed? We have heard and seen already the hearsay witness to that event (which did not strike me as important anyway), who appeared prominently on TV. But the actual participants in the The Beast event---the actual eyewitnesses---have not testified under oath before the 1/6 committee. Cheney is suggesting the Secret Service is not cooperating, but without being specific. Perhaps she is dissembling. I do not know how the Secret Service can "not" cooperate if the President is Biden. President Biden can order cooperation, no? His orders to the Secret Service not followed? Biden has authority to fire Director Murray. Biden has been President soon for 700 days. Is Biden clued into the situation? Cognizant...but nothing happens? This gets to the point---are US intel agencies effectively autonomous? This is the sort of issue the JFKA community should excel of parsing.... Edited July 26, 2022 by Benjamin Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Palamara Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 6 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: Vince Palamara: Well! The Secret Service is in the news again, and that is your bailiwick. Recently, news reports have been floated out, based on commentary by Liz Cheney, that the Secret Service is not cooperating with the 1/6 committee. From what I read, The [Secret Service] director is appointed by, and serves at the pleasure of the president of the United States, and is not subject to Senate confirmation.[5] The director reports to the secretary of homeland security, and operates with the general directions thereof.--Wiki OK, so the present Director of the Secret Service, James M. Murray, serves at the pleasure of President Biden, could be fired in a minute, and also reports to Biden's Secy of Homeland Security, Alejandro Mayorkas. If the Secret Service is not cooperating with the 1/6 committee...what gives? Murray is not cooperating? Is the Secret Service a renegade agency? Part of the Deep State, beyond real control by elected officials, meaning President Biden and Secy Mayorkas? Or is Biden complacent, or possibly unaware of circumstances? Does the Secret Service, with connection to the shadow state, have compromising information on Biden? The 1/6 committee has shown its resolve; it is having Steve Bannon thrown behind bars for failing to comply with a subpoena. Fine by me. Are Secret Service agents somehow exempt from congressional subpoenas? I do not understand why the 1/6 committee does not subpoena those agents it wants to testify, under penalty of incarceration if they do not comply. And if perjury, then jail also. Are Secret Service agents, by law or custom, considered above Congressional inquiry? Thanks for your insights..... Interesting story. Keep an open mind.... Thanks! Oh, yes- much aware of this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Palamara Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said: OK...but on the two Secret Service guys who were in the "The Beast," or another vehicle in which Trump did, or did not, attempt to wrest the wheel of the vehicle...why have they not been subpoenaed? We have heard and seen already the hearsay witness to that event (which did not strike me as important anyway), who appeared prominently on TV. But the actual participants in the The Beast event---the actual eyewitnesses---have not testified under oath before the 1/6 committee. Cheney is suggesting the Secret Service is not cooperating, but without being specific. Perhaps she is dissembling. I do not know how the Secret Service can "not" cooperate if the President is Biden. President Biden can order cooperation, no? His orders to the Secret Service not followed? Biden has authority to fire Director Murray. Biden has been President soon for 700 days. Is Biden clued into the situation? Cognizant...but nothing happens? This gets to the point---are US intel agencies effectively autonomous? This is the sort of issue the JFKA community should excel of parsing.... What is really disturbing are the reports that Trump's top agents were cheering on the insurrection. The destruction of the texts is troubling, as well. Reminds one of the destruction of motorcade records AFTER the ARRB requested them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted July 26, 2022 Author Share Posted July 26, 2022 49 minutes ago, Vince Palamara said: What is really disturbing are the reports that Trump's top agents were cheering on the insurrection. The destruction of the texts is troubling, as well. Reminds one of the destruction of motorcade records AFTER the ARRB requested them. Vince--- Look forward to your research in this area. Yes, disappearing Secret Service documents are very troubling....but the last time such documents disappeared, it was (probably) because of the SS aligned against a sitting US President. I am fence-sitting on this one. The M$M narrative strongly suggests something negative about Trump and SS is being covered up. Perhaps. But this cover-up happened while Biden was president, and the SS reported to Biden. It seems to me SS Director Murray is playing with fire if he oversaw the destruction of anti-Trump records while Biden is President. Murray "serves at the pleasure" of the President. If Murray was in charge when document destruction went on...shouldn't Biden summarily fire Murray? And...can SS agents refuse to honor a Congressional subpoena? Why doesn't Biden tell Murray his troops have to go up to the Hill and honestly answer questions, or he, Murray, will be fired along with anybody else involved.... Biden seems out in left field. Could the SS or shadow government have compromising info on Biden? Why is Biden so timid? Ineffective? Inert? Unengaged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Govus Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 Oh, for heaven's sake. I have plenty of gripes to do with Biden. I will grant you, Ben, "timid." He needs to expand the Supreme Court, and he needs to pick up about twelve seats in the Senate. And/or jettison the filibuster. But I'm encouraged by progressive-lite Biden, much better than the hack and shill I took him to be. That so little has gotten better is in my view simply a reflection of how well and truly hog-tied the U.S. is after decades of division, financialization, globalization and militarism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted July 26, 2022 Author Share Posted July 26, 2022 52 minutes ago, George Govus said: Oh, for heaven's sake. I have plenty of gripes to do with Biden. I will grant you, Ben, "timid." He needs to expand the Supreme Court, and he needs to pick up about twelve seats in the Senate. And/or jettison the filibuster. But I'm encouraged by progressive-lite Biden, much better than the hack and shill I took him to be. That so little has gotten better is in my view simply a reflection of how well and truly hog-tied the U.S. is after decades of division, financialization, globalization and militarism. That so little has gotten better is in my view simply a reflection of how well and truly hog-tied the U.S. is after decades of division, financialization, globalization and militarism.--GG Amen brother, and in spades. I have a few caveats, but in the interest of solidarity, I will bite my tongue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted July 28, 2022 Author Share Posted July 28, 2022 Calling Vince P again! OK, we have the 1/6 committee calling for the DHS Inspector General to be replaced. The DHS IG has some obligations regarding the Secret Service and the investigation into the missing texts. The blue team will say the DHS IG is biased, and the red team will say the 1/6 committee just wants a Donk witch-hunter in there. My question: In 11/22, it sure looks like the Secret Service was an essential arm of the shadow state. The hair-pin turn, the upper-floor windows unblocked, the agent told not to ride on the limo, the destruction of evidence at the autopsy, and so on. In subsequent decades, the Secret Service remained loyal to the shadow government, aka the Deep State, hiding or destroying more documents related to 11/22. Now...it seems like the story-line, for public consumption, is the Secret Service had become aligned with President Trump. The Secret Service is protecting Trump, not just physically as required, but politically and legally. This is odd, as the shadow government made no secret of its loathing for Trump, even so far as having a former CIA director pen an op-ed in 2016 for The New York Times advising voters that Trump was a national security risk and they should vote for HRC. And of course, 50 former Deep State apparatchiks signed a declaration that the Hunter Biden laptop was just Russian disinformation, just before the 2020 election. Surely, the Deep State loathes Donald Trump, and is willing to lie and spread disinformation to that end. That is the indisputable record. So what gives, with the present-day Secret Service? Did Trump, a DC outsider, manage "flip" the Secret Service to his side? I find this hard to believe. Are the missing texts some sort of charade? That is, they are missing, but contain info favorable to Trump, or damaging to the shadow state? Why hasn't Biden summarily fired SS Director Murray? Instead, Murray is exiting to get a cushy lucrative job with Snapchat, the PC social media platform. What is your take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Palamara Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: Calling Vince P again! OK, we have the 1/6 committee calling for the DHS Inspector General to be replaced. The DHS IG has some obligations regarding the Secret Service and the investigation into the missing texts. The blue team will say the DHS IG is biased, and the red team will say the 1/6 committee just wants a Donk witch-hunter in there. My question: In 11/22, it sure looks like the Secret Service was an essential arm of the shadow state. The hair-pin turn, the upper-floor windows unblocked, the agent told not to ride on the limo, the destruction of evidence at the autopsy, and so on. In subsequent decades, the Secret Service remained loyal to the shadow government, aka the Deep State, hiding or destroying more documents related to 11/22. Now...it seems like the story-line, for public consumption, is the Secret Service had become aligned with President Trump. The Secret Service is protecting Trump, not just physically as required, but politically and legally. This is odd, as the shadow government made no secret of its loathing for Trump, even so far as having a former CIA director pen an op-ed in 2016 for The New York Times advising voters that Trump was a national security risk and they should vote for HRC. And of course, 50 former Deep State apparatchiks signed a declaration that the Hunter Biden laptop was just Russian disinformation, just before the 2020 election. Surely, the Deep State loathes Donald Trump, and is willing to lie and spread disinformation to that end. That is the indisputable record. So what gives, with the present-day Secret Service? Did Trump, a DC outsider, manage "flip" the Secret Service to his side? I find this hard to believe. Are the missing texts some sort of charade? That is, they are missing, but contain info favorable to Trump, or damaging to the shadow state? Why hasn't Biden summarily fired SS Director Murray? Instead, Murray is exiting to get a cushy lucrative job with Snapchat, the PC social media platform. What is your take? What all this proves is what I have been stating for years (in my books, articles, conference appearances, etc.): people need to stop viewing the Secret Service as beyond reproach while having no problem feeling comfortable with casting aspersions [rightfully, I might add] at the FBI and CIA. While the vast majority of the agents (1865-2022) were/are men and women of impeccable character and heroic background, there are bad apples throughout history that have spoiled the bunch, so to speak. I have often encountered a sort of mental barrier by some (especially non-researchers) when it comes to the Secret Service: "C'mon, Vince- these are the 'good guys', are they not?" My response is: yes, they are, in most cases; same with the men and women of the FBI and CIA. Again, all it takes are a few bad seeds. Heck, look at the NINE agents who drank the morning of 11/22/63 and the NINE agents who drank and partied in 2011 when President Obama was scheduled to visit Cartegna, Columbia. One of the 11/22/63 drinkers was Clint Hill. Three others were follow-up car agents: Jack Ready, Paul Landis and Glen Bennett. They also stayed out very late, so sleep deprivation is an issue, as well. Not only weren't these men fired or indicted, they were able to carry on as if not happened AND, in Hill's case, receive an award and a promotion! With regard to the current/modern Trump/Biden situation, you are seeing conflicts of interest and divided loyalties. Murray "leaving" could be tantamount to JFK's first Secret Service Chief U.E. Baughman being "retired" [a.k.a. fired, the way they did it for Dulles/Bissell/Cabell during the same time period], as Baughman sided with Hoover in shockingly stating to the press that there was no Mafia and there hadn't been one for many years, a statement directly opposed to RFK and JFK both. Often times in government, one is not "fired" to retain dignity and a pension. This is still an active/fluid situation, so more to come in the following days/weeks/months. That said, the Secret Service deleting text messages, siding with Trump, NOT siding with Biden, believing the election of 2020 was a hoax and cheering on the insurrection are causes for grave concern. I cannot wait when Tony Ornato (and others) testify to the 1/6 committee. Here are my responses to a recent media inquiry: -Any insight into the current scandal? Yes- history repeats itself: in 1995, after the ARRB asked for them, the Secret Service destroyed critical JFK motorcade records. Here we are in 2022 and the Secret Service deleted important texts after they were asked for them. In 1963-1969, a Secret Service agent named Emory Roberts became a tad too close to LBJ (while also voicing concerns about JFK’s private life and failing miserably on 11/22/63, having also paralyzed the agents under him to act), becoming his appointment secretary, an unprecedented move for a still-active agent. In 2020, a Secret Service agent named Tony Ornato became a tad too close to President Trump and became Deputy chief of Staff. Ornato and several of his fellow agents reportedly cheered on the 1/6/21 insurrection at the Capital, an action that went against President-Elect Biden (the false notion that the election was a fraud). -How does this fit into larger problems with the institution? The agency has a history of becoming too close to a protectee and also having low regard for other protectees. -What do you make of the agents behavior on Jan 6and the agency’s behavior in the aftermath? I think it was atrocious and alarming. The agents should be professional and apolitical. They should also refrain from becoming too chummy and compromising their own integrity. -What is agency’s track record on disclosure and on retention or destruction/hiding of records? Bad. As the ARRB’s John Tunheim and Thomas Samoluk have duly noted on the documentary JFK Revisited, the Secret Service is the only federal agency to destroy records after they were asked for them and were more difficult to work with than any other agency- even the FBI sand CIA. -What is the level of competency and skill on the part of average agents, and what do we need to know about the kind of person who works there? I know everyone likes to praise the bravery and dedication of ss, cops, military, etc – but what is the cold, hard reality? The vast majority of the agents through history have been good and loyal men with good training and backgrounds (often in law enforcement and/or in the military). However, during the JFK, LBJ, Nixon and Trump eras, perhaps others, several agents harbored either too close emotions to the protectee or they held ill will toward them. Neither is acceptable, especially the latter. The agency needs to better screen potential agents for these kinds of feelings and beliefs. JFK agents who harbored anger at President Kennedy for his private life (the agents who spoke to Seymour Hersh and others) and political views (Elmer Moore, Forrest Sorrels) cast a dark shadow on the success of the assassination. Likewise, the agents who were too close to Trump and cheered on the insurrection—-and deleted valuable text messages—-need to be held accountable. Edited July 28, 2022 by Vince Palamara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted July 29, 2022 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 VP- Thanks for your terrific insights into the Secret Service. Some people regard Ornato highly, mostly people who have worked with him for years. That could be chumminess, or genuine. Ornato was promoted through the ranks of the SS, through the Bush and Obama Administrations. On 11/22, it sure appears the SS was an instrumental arm of the the security state, aka in popular parlance, the Deep State or shadow government. BTW, former Def Secy Gates wrote in his book "Duty" that the CIA runs palace guards for any number of foreign leaders, through Africa, Caribbean and Latin America. It would surprise me if the CIA does not have informants, or even close ties, to the SS. I still lean towards considering the SS a part of the shadow government, more likely to booby trap a mercurial and errant outsider like Trump, than to work in his favor. But let's see what evolves. It is curious that Biden has not fired SS Director Murray, since the texts disappeared on his watch. Murray is leaving, with high praise from the Bidens, to a cushy high-paid job with Snapchat, the social media platform that has banned Trump. Just desserts or golden parachute? PS Can texts really just disappear? The federal government has been able to retrieve texts from the compliant telecom giants in other situations. Does the SS have its own telecom system? PPS---The story for public consumption anyway, is that texts from 10 different SS agents have disappeared. You mentioned a few bad SS apples...but on 11/22, surely there was an institutional effort to aid and abet the day's events. Now, we read about the texts of 10 different agents disappearing...not a few bad apples. This suggests to me an institutional effort to remove the texts. On SS Director Murray's watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Palamara Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 17 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said: VP- Thanks for your terrific insights into the Secret Service. Some people regard Ornato highly, mostly people who have worked with him for years. That could be chumminess, or genuine. Ornato was promoted through the ranks of the SS, through the Bush and Obama Administrations. On 11/22, it sure appears the SS was an instrumental arm of the the security state, aka in popular parlance, the Deep State or shadow government. BTW, former Def Secy Gates wrote in his book "Duty" that the CIA runs palace guards for any number of foreign leaders, through Africa, Caribbean and Latin America. It would surprise me if the CIA does not have informants, or even close ties, to the SS. I still lean towards considering the SS a part of the shadow government, more likely to booby trap a mercurial and errant outsider like Trump, than to work in his favor. But let's see what evolves. It is curious that Biden has not fired SS Director Murray, since the texts disappeared on his watch. Murray is leaving, with high praise from the Bidens, to a cushy high-paid job with Snapchat, the social media platform that has banned Trump. Just desserts or golden parachute? PS Can texts really just disappear? The federal government has been able to retrieve texts from the compliant telecom giants in other situations. Does the SS have its own telecom system? PPS---The story for public consumption anyway, is that texts from 10 different SS agents have disappeared. You mentioned a few bad SS apples...but on 11/22, surely there was an institutional effort to aid and abet the day's events. Now, we read about the texts of 10 different agents disappearing...not a few bad apples. This suggests to me an institutional effort to remove the texts. On SS Director Murray's watch. Thanks! Please see my latest post about Russ Baker - it related directly to your interest. As for deleted texts, there are ways to retrieve them and it appears someone may still have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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