Into the Nightmare: A Milestone

[James DiEugenio]

I believe that Joe McBride's 2013 book, Into the Nightmare, is both a watershed volume and it sets a new plateau in the literature on the TIppit case.

I think it does so to the extent that it set new paradigms on that case through exploring avenues that had either been ignored or, at the very least, discounted.

I did not agree with everything in the book, but to ignore what Joe wrote about the actual murder of Tippit is today a betrayal of innate bias, or petty ignorance.

The fact that Joe's book directly countered and seriously questioned With Malice is one of the reasons I think the author of that book did one of his usual drive bys of late.

Edited July 29, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Now. as most people know, I spend a lot of time writing critiques of films, books and DVD's.  And I think I do more of that in this field than anyone.

Therefore, I have had a lot of practice doing  criticism.  Therefore I understand what it entails.  So let me explain what I mean.

To my knowledge, Joe was the first person to interview the father of J. D.Tippit. Which is kind of amazing in and of itself.

Among other things, Edgar Lee Tippit told Joe about a talk he had with his son's widow, Marie. Of course, since--to my knowledge--no one talked to the father before, this was new information.  Since it is quite important to the TIppit case, let me quote the book:

"Tippit's father told me he had bed been informed by Marie Tippit, the officer's widow, that J. D. and another officer had been assigned by the police to hunt down Oswald in Oak Cliff.  According to Edgar Lee, 'They called J. D. and another policeman and said he [Oswald] was headed in that direction,  The other policeman told Marie." (p. 426, italics added)

Please note that the information is from whoever the other policeman is.  Does anyone in their right mind think that this guy would have lied to his partner's widow?  If you do, I think McAdams' site is still up.

Edited July 29, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Edgar Lee Tippit told Joe about a talk he had with his son's widow, Marie. Of course, since--to my knowledge--no one talked to the father before, this was new information.  Since it is quite important to the TIppit case, let me quote the book:

"Tippit's father told me he had been informed by Marie Tippit, the officer's widow, that J. D. and another officer had been assigned by the police to hunt down Oswald in Oak Cliff.  According to Edgar Lee, 'They called J. D. and another policeman and said he [Oswald] was headed in that direction,  The other policeman told Marie." (p. 426, italics added)

And this is the kind of unverified and unsupportable mush that Jim DiEugenio actually thinks trumps Dale Myers' intense and decades-long research regarding the murder of J.D. Tippit?

Good Lord!

Edited July 29, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Michael Davidson]

The recollections of Tippits Dad = mush ? 

Why ? Because it suggests a conspiracy ?

[James DiEugenio]

The idea of a manhunt is borne out by other evidence Joe supplied in abundance..

The Gloco station with Tippit staring at the viaduct. Backed by five witnesses.The Andrews pullover, (p 448) by Drenas with Tippit checking in the back seat of the car.  WIthout saying a word, Tippit went back to his car when what he was lookin for was not there.

And then comes the most mysterious step  of all.: The stop at Top Ten Recordsl

Edited July 30, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Whenever you can supplement a new witness' testimony with other witnesses and actions, it bolsters his credibility.

From the above, it is quite logical to deduce that Tippit was looking for someone.  The Top Ten Records stop was so disturbing that John Whitten, the guy looking into the case for the CIA, actually investigated it.

Here is my question: is any of this in the Warren Report?

Does not one have to then look with doubt on people who post the Tippit case as if the WR was the Holy Grail on that murder?  Are are these not relevant instances that impact both the time line, and possible circumstances around the patrolman's death? 

Edited July 30, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Now: 

"The DPD supplied the Commission with three different transcripts of its radio transmissions for the day of the assassination.  The first two, dated December 3 and 5, 1963, were obviously incomplete and unsatisfactory and contained only one cryptic reference to Tippit and what he  might have been doing in Oak Cliff, although it gave no indication of why he was out of his district."  (p. 422)

As Joe then elaborates, the Commission knew that Tippit's movements were a problem, why was he out of his district?  They called in three witnesses, including Tippit's superior, Bud Owens to explain.  None could come up with a reasonable reply. In fact, the three they brought in were unaware of the order to Tippit to go to the Central Oak Cliff area.

There were actually two weird dispatches.  The order to move into the Central Oak Cliff  area, and then another weird one, "You will be at large for any emergency that comes in." The latter came in at 12: 54, nine minutes after the former.  It was only on the March 20th transcript that the order for Tippit to head into the area he would be killed appeared. This was the third version.  So the question became, if this was always there, why was everyone previously puzzled?

Edited July 29, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

It was not just the late arrival that was puzzling about the Central Oak Cliff area order. 

There were two officers allegedly involved, Tippit and Ron Nelson.

In the March transcript, no replies from the two were included.  But yet, if one can comprehend it, there was a fourth version. An August FBI transcript.  Here, both reply.  Tippit says he is going to Kiest and Bonnie View and Nelson says he is going north of Marsalis on the Thornton freeway.  Both locations are in Oak Cliff.

Let us turn to Sylvia Meagher for this exchange, as Joe does: "The order to Tippit and Nelson was given fifteen minutes after the President was shot, in a setting of unprecedented emergency.  A frenzy of police activity centered at the Book Depository and at Parkland Hospital...We are asked to believe that, in the midst of this consternation the dispatcher took the time to call Tippit and Nelson, and give them instructions which make no sense." (p. 423)

 

Edited July 30, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[John Cotter]

The following extract from from Double Cross, a biography of Sam Giancana by Sam and Chuck Giancana with Bettina Giancana, seems to tie in with Joseph McBride’s account of what happened. It also provides a plausible motive for the killing of Officer Tipppit:

 

“‘The CIA had selected White and Tippit (sent in separate cars, with Billy Seymour lying down in the backseat of Roscoe White’s vehicle to keep from being spotted)…Under the guise of self-defense and in the line of duty they were to murder the ‘lone gunman.’  However, Tippit had wavered…allowing Oswald to escape.  Thus, White had been forced to kill his partner.’”

Edited July 29, 2022 by John Cotter

[James DiEugenio]

Why is it puzzling?  Because Nelson did not go to Oak Cliff, he ended up in Dealey Plaza. (p. 430)

Secondly, the dispatcher tried to later say that he needed men in Oak Cliff, this is why he gave out this puzzling order.  Well, this is a second problem: he already had a man there. 

This was Officer Mentzel.  And Mentzel did admit to the HSCA that he did stop to check out a car wreck around I pm, just as the elder TIppit said he heard from Marie. 

Need I add that neither of these men was interviewed by the Commission, even though the WC understood there was a problem with the messaging.  When Henry Hurt met with Nelson in 1984, he said he was mystified that he had not been called by the WC or the HSCA.  When Hurt asked him if he got the call to go to Oak Cliff, Nelson said he did not know what he meant.  When Hurt explained it more, Nelson said "I had rather not talk about that."  As Hurt notes, dispatcher Murray Jackon was never questioned by the WC or the HSCA either. (Hurt, p. 162). And when he was questioned by CBS for their special in 1967, its pretty  clear he was being prompted by the interviewer Eddie Barker. (McBride, p. 423)

 

Edited July 30, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

The excuses the DPD came up with in order to justify how the order to move into Central Oak Cliff was not on the first or second transcript  got mildly ludicrous..

First it was due to brevity. For such a message of key importance?

Then, the excuse was that somehow that area of Oak Cliff was of some importance.  Even McCloy would not buy that one. (P. 424). Then something really bizarre took place.

Curry tried to say that Tippit was looking for his own killer.  McCloy said, "But Tippit was still alive on the first direction to him to go out here."  This is how bad it got trying to explain these late arriving messages.

As Sylvia Meagher has written, this exchange is utterly inexplicable:

Jackson: You are in the Oak Cliff area, are you not?

Tippit: Lancaster and 8th.

Jackson: You will be at large for any emergency that comes in.  (P. 425)

This is about 20 minutes after Kennedy has been shot!

Edited July 30, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Sandy Larsen]

10 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

And this is the kind of unverified and unsupportable mush that Jim DiEugenio actually thinks trumps Dale Myers' intense and decades-long research regarding the murder of J.D. Tippit?

 

Ah yes, Dale Myers... the guy who thinks the Methodist hospital clock was off by eight minutes, as was T.F. Bowley's watch, the clock of one witness, and the clock at the TV station where the time was announced on live TV. They were all off by eight minutes! What an amazing coincidence!

And also, the guy who thinks the SBT is a fact, and proved so by fudging Kennedy's and Connolly's locations, and severely contorting Kennedy's posture.

Yeah, that guy's work can surely be trusted.

 

[James DiEugenio]

Take a bow Sandy.  👏

[Derek Thibeault]

I think the Tippit case is so important to the JFK case and should have been fully investigated, like any other murder. Something happened here that was directly linked to the assassination, and discovering what happened and why would help solve the overall case. I know Mcbride talked to his father, but were there other family members that were missed during the so-called investigation. His supposed mistress? Obviously the whole case fascinates me but this piece of it is critical.

[James DiEugenio]

Now, as Joe notes, Tippit was not at Kiest and Bonnie View. 

According to 5 witnesses, he was at the GLOCO station which is about five miles from where he said he was. This has been confirmed by Bill Turner, David Welsh and Greg Lowrey. (pp. 441-42)

As Jackson said, perhaps covering for the man, "If somebody is out of pocket off their district and you ask them their location, they are either not going to answer or they are going to give you somewhere else anyway."  I like that phrase, "out of pocket".  In fact Henry Wade said the same thing, "Tippit was off his beat some." (p. 455) There can be little doubt about that matter.  

Or perhaps it was worse?  As Joe writes, "The Top Ten Records story suggests TIppit was desperately seeking further direction..with not being able to locate Oswald."  

Edited July 30, 2022 by James DiEugenio