Going postal on Mrs. Postal

[David Von Pein]

2 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

Ask Von Pein what radio station broadcast the description of the man and at what time ?

Gil,

Go to the links below. The topic is covered quite extensively on these pages:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2019/04/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1317.html

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/25724-first-radio-report-on-tippits-shooting/?tab=comments#comment-399074

Excerpt:

JERRY FREEMAN SAID:

Where is that "clear" bulletin? I have failed to hear it.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

That certainly doesn't mean no such bulletin existed. Go find the KBOX-Radio coverage from 1:15 PM to 1:35 PM. If you can find it, I'll bet you'd find the bulletin in question. But since it evidently wasn't preserved, all we can do is guess (and all the conspiracy theorists can do, therefore, is to pretend no such broadcast ever existed [and, hence, also call Johnny Brewer a li@r]).

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Karl Hilliard]

7 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

 

Ask Von Pein what radio station broadcast the description of the man and at what time ?

It would only be a station from where there is no transcript. Note that the story ultimately morphed into this...

Quote

 

Posted November 23, 2011

Police in Dallas honor man who led them to Lee Harvey Oswald

The city begins to note its legacy and seeks out citizen-heroes from the day President Kennedy was assassinated....

“I’m just so overwhelmed,” Brewer, 70, said after receiving the award and watching a video of his 22-year-old self recounting the events of that day.

Brewer, a manager at a shoe store located about 90 steps from the Oak Cliff neighborhood theater, was listening to news reports about the president’s assassination when he heard reports that a Dallas police officer, J.D. Tippit, had just been killed a few blocks away.

 

https://www.pressherald.com/2011/11/23/police-in-dallas-honor-man-who-led-them-to-oswald_2011-11-23/

[Gil Jesus]

5 hours ago, Karl Hilliard said:

It would only be a station from where there is no transcript. Note that the story ultimately morphed into this...

https://www.pressherald.com/2011/11/23/police-in-dallas-honor-man-who-led-them-to-oswald_2011-11-23/

Thanks for that link, Karl. I wonder why the authorities never ascertained whether or not there was anybody else in the shoe store at the time of this encounter and if they could substantiate Brewer's story. Once the city saw him as a hero, there was no putting that genie back in the bottle. And so the legend continued.....

[Karl Hilliard]

As a side note..I found that this was all discussed back in 2019----

I may have missed in the discussions... What ever happened to the theater manager? It seems that he just took off and disappeared. Was that not strange? And also the amazing hot-line that Julia Postal must have had to contact the police switchboard so quickly. There were probably hundreds of calls coming in at once [just a guess]....However squads of cops seemed to divine that they would have their man right there at the movie show.

[Mark Knight]

Had I even ONCE cited nonexistent evidence, as DVP does in the Brewer claim to have heard about the Tippit shooting on the radio, DVP would have trampled me with both feet for pushing a claim with no supporting evidence. I have [somewhere on CD] a LOOONNGG-running recording from KLIF on November 22, 1963, which came from the ReelRadio website over 15 years ago. But NO ONE, to date, has been able to produce a similar broadcast from any other radio station in Dallas announcing the shooting of Tippit within the timeframe Brewer claimed to have heard it. Nor is there such a transcript of a broadcast...to date.

The lack of supporting evidence, once again, introduces something that DVP detests being raised in the Oswald case: REASONABLE DOUBT. Because, absent the evidence, there is REASONABLE DOUBT that Brewer heard what he claims to have heard.

In the Oswald case, there is enough REASONABLE DOUBT behind much of the so-called "evidence" that, had Oswald lived to stand trial, a competent defense attorney [UNLIKE Alex Jones' attorney] might have gotten an acquittal on one, if not both, of the murders on November 22, 1963.

[David Von Pein]

Quote

Mark Knight said:

Had I even ONCE cited nonexistent evidence, as DVP does in the Brewer claim to have heard about the Tippit shooting on the radio, DVP would have trampled me with both feet for pushing a claim with no supporting evidence. I have [somewhere on CD] a LOOONNGG-running recording from KLIF on November 22, 1963, which came from the ReelRadio website over 15 years ago. But NO ONE, to date, has been able to produce a similar broadcast from any other radio station in Dallas announcing the shooting of Tippit within the timeframe Brewer claimed to have heard it. Nor is there such a transcript of a broadcast...to date.

The lack of supporting evidence, once again, introduces something that DVP detests being raised in the Oswald case: REASONABLE DOUBT. Because, absent the evidence, there is REASONABLE DOUBT that Brewer heard what he claims to have heard.

In the Oswald case, there is enough REASONABLE DOUBT behind much of the so-called "evidence" that, had Oswald lived to stand trial, a competent defense attorney [UNLIKE Alex Jones' attorney] might have gotten an acquittal on one, if not both, of the murders on November 22, 1963.

Mark,

When it comes to the topic of which of the Dallas-area radio stations Johnny Brewer was listening to on 11/22/63, as I said in this 2019 EF discussion, we just do not know for certain which station he was listening to that day. And that means that there are multiple other radio stations that are still candidates, and that includes KBOX, which (as I pointed out in the 2019 thread) is a station that reported this bulletin on the air at 1:35 PM CST: "We also have one Dallas detective reported dead on arrival at Parkland Hospital."

Now, if that bulletin is referring to J.D. Tippit's death (and I would bet it is, despite the fact they got the name of the hospital wrong), it means a radio station in Dallas was reporting on the shooting of a policeman prior to the time Brewer saw Oswald lurking in his store window. And it's quite possible that KBOX reported on the Oak Cliff shooting sometime before that 1:35 bulletin as well. But I can't confirm it (and neither could Dale Myers), because our copies of the KBOX coverage doesn't begin until 1:35 PM.

So rather than come out and accuse Johnny Brewer of lying his head off (as it seems so many conspiracists are willing and eager to do), I choose to first acknowledge the fact that there are most definitely other possible avenues to travel down when it comes to the subject of "Brewer And The Radio Stations". Another of those avenues is this one below (culled from the 2019 discussion):

"I'm certainly willing to accept the possibility that Johnny Brewer might have gotten mixed up concerning the precise time when he first heard the news about a police officer being shot in Oak Cliff. Perhaps he did hear that news a little later in the day. But also keep in mind the 1:35 PM KBOX report about the DOA "detective" (which is a remarkably speedy bulletin, because KBOX not only was reporting on the wounding of a police officer, they were already reporting on the death of that policeman as early as 1:35), which tends to indicate that at least one Dallas-area radio station was reporting the officer's shooting at a time which would be perfectly consistent with Johnny Brewer's account of only seeing Oswald after hearing about the policeman's shooting on the radio.

The KBOX audio footage I provided does not, however, give the necessary detail about the shooting taking place in Oak Cliff, but, as I mentioned earlier, it's possible that such an "Oak Cliff" detail was mentioned in an earlier KBOX bulletin, which preceded the point in time when my truncated copy of the coverage begins.

In any event, even if Brewer didn't hear any pre-1:36 PM radio bulletin concerning the Tippit shooting, it's still quite clear to me from the weight of John Brewer's testimony and statements over the years that Brewer was suspicious of Lee Harvey Oswald's behavior and actions shortly after 1:30 PM on 11/22/63 (such as: Oswald turning his back to the street just as the police cars went roaring by).

And if some conspiracy theorists have a desire to totally discount and deem invalid all of Mr. Brewer's testimony because of this issue of whether he really did hear a radio bulletin at the time he said he heard it, then I think those conspiracists are making a big mistake."  -- DVP; April 18, 2019

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/Johnny Brewer & The Radio Stations

 

Edited August 8, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Mark Knight]

Thank you. That's much clearer. The absence of evidence [the radio station announcement prior to 1:35 PM doesn't mean that it didn't occur, but it also doesn't mean that it did.

I just want to make sure that's clear in the minds of those reading the thread. People lie. People get confused. People get what's now known as "the Mandela effect." [Google it.] So Brewer's statements, while they may be intended as honest, may not actually reflect the things that happened in the sequence or timing that he believes they did.  It doesn't make him a prevaricator. It might simply mean that not all his memories are exactly as events happened. In light of that, we must be careful how much weight we give to each element.

Maybe KBOX had it on the air prior to 1:35 pm. But if the Tippit shooting occurred in the timeline DVP believes it did, as a former broadcaster myself I have trouble believing that a man declared dead at 1:25 pm would have an announcement made on the radio, even one NOT mentioning his name, within 5 minutes of the "official" time of death. [Had Tippit been declared dead at 1:15 rather than 1:25, which DVP doesn't believe occurred, a 1:30 announcement may have been possible on a day such as November 22, 1963.]

[Ron Bulman]

Wasn't Ms. Postal a teenage girl who broke down crying was it 2 or 3 times under initial questioning, unable to answer.? How believable are her coached later responses? 

[Karl Hilliard]

6 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Mark,

When it comes to the topic of which of the Dallas-area radio stations Johnny Brewer was listening to on 11/22/63, as I said in this 2019 EF discussion, we just do not know for certain which station he was listening to that day. And that means that there are multiple other radio stations that are still candidates, and that includes KBOX, which (as I pointed out in the 2019 thread) is a station that reported this bulletin on the air at 1:35 PM CST: "We also have one Dallas detective reported dead on arrival at Parkland Hospital."

Now, if that bulletin is referring to J.D. Tippit's death (and I would bet it is, despite the fact they got the name of the hospital wrong), it means a radio station in Dallas was reporting on the shooting of a policeman prior to the time Brewer saw Oswald lurking in his store window. And it's quite possible that KBOX reported on the Oak Cliff shooting sometime before that 1:35 bulletin as well. But I can't confirm it (and neither could Dale Myers), because our copies of the KBOX coverage doesn't begin until 1:35 PM.

So rather than come out and accuse Johnny Brewer of lying his head off (as it seems so many conspiracists are willing and eager to do), I choose to first acknowledge the fact that there are most definitely other possible avenues to travel down when it comes to the subject of "Brewer And The Radio Stations". Another of those avenues is this one below (culled from the 2019 discussion):

"I'm certainly willing to accept the possibility that Johnny Brewer might have gotten mixed up concerning the precise time when he first heard the news about a police officer being shot in Oak Cliff. Perhaps he did hear that news a little later in the day. But also keep in mind the 1:35 PM KBOX report about the DOA "detective" (which is a remarkably speedy bulletin, because KBOX not only was reporting on the wounding of a police officer, they were already reporting on the death of that policeman as early as 1:35), which tends to indicate that at least one Dallas-area radio station was reporting the officer's shooting at a time which would be perfectly consistent with Johnny Brewer's account of only seeing Oswald after hearing about the policeman's shooting on the radio.

The KBOX audio footage I provided does not, however, give the necessary detail about the shooting taking place in Oak Cliff, but, as I mentioned earlier, it's possible that such an "Oak Cliff" detail was mentioned in an earlier KBOX bulletin, which preceded the point in time when my truncated copy of the coverage begins.

In any event, even if Brewer didn't hear any pre-1:36 PM radio bulletin concerning the Tippit shooting, it's still quite clear to me from the weight of John Brewer's testimony and statements over the years that Brewer was suspicious of Lee Harvey Oswald's behavior and actions shortly after 1:30 PM on 11/22/63 (such as: Oswald turning his back to the street just as the police cars went roaring by).

And if some conspiracy theorists have a desire to totally discount and deem invalid all of Mr. Brewer's testimony because of this issue of whether he really did hear a radio bulletin at the time he said he heard it, then I think those conspiracists are making a big mistake."  -- DVP; April 18, 2019

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/Johnny Brewer & The Radio Stations

 

 If David had not posted the radio broadcasts to begin with ..then no one [I guess] would have been the wiser anyway.

The terms 'could have' and 'possible' are hardly evidence and also 'willing' and 'eager' to call Brewer out on his story is a bit overinflated. The idea is the desire to iron out the events surrounding Oswald's capture because just based on the strength of 'looking suspicious' hardly warranted the invasion of a theater from policemen with riot guns. Also concerning the shot dead detective mentioned at the intro of the KBOX recording could have been Tippit but no description of his assailant is given/and or repeated...Why not if it was known?

 

[Karl Hilliard]

At 2:05:25 in the KLIF recording...the official announcement came--JFK is dead. The preceding 15+ minutes were devoted to nothing but his condition and no supplemental bulletins were even hinted. 

 

[David Von Pein]

40 minutes ago, Karl Hilliard said:

Also concerning the shot dead detective mentioned at the intro of the KBOX recording could have been Tippit but no description of his assailant is given/and or repeated...Why not if it was known?

As I've said before (and, yes, it's just speculation), but KBOX (or another station) might have broadcast more info about the Oak Cliff shooting prior to 1:35. We just don't know, because the pre-1:35 KBOX recordings have never been circulated.

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

Wasn't Ms. Postal a teenage girl who broke down crying was it 2 or 3 times under initial questioning, unable to answer? How believable are her coached later responses? 

Julia Postal was not a teenager. Not even close. She was 39 years old (click to enlarge her 12/4/63 affidavit seen below).

And, of course, you have proof that Mrs. Postal's "later responses" were, in fact, the result of "coaching", right Ron? Otherwise, why would you say what you just said above? I look forward to seeing that proof. Thanks, Ron.

Edited August 9, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Ron Bulman]

Ok.  I was way off on her age.  Anything about her breaking down, crying in her initial questioning in your files?

[Cory Santos]

56 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Julia Postal was not a teenager. Not even close. She was 39 years old (click to enlarge her 12/4/63 affidavit seen below).

And, of course, you have proof that Mrs. Postal's "later responses" were, in fact, the result of "coaching", right Ron? Otherwise, why would you say what you just said above? I look forward to seeing that proof. Thanks, Ron.

I have to agree with DVP here Ron.   How can you just claim her responses were “coached”?  Do you have any proof of such a serious accusation or were you just writing your thoughts for all to see?

Edited August 9, 2022 by Cory Santos

[David Von Pein]

3 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Anything about her [Julia Postal] breaking down, crying in her initial questioning in your files?

Yes. But it's not in Postal's "initial questioning". According to the conspiracy theorist (Rich Pope) I talked to at this forum in February of 2019, Julia Postal apparently broke down while being interviewed by researcher Jones Harris at some point (years perhaps?) after 11/22/63.

At the link below, I archived my portions of that 2019 EF discussion at my site (along with the posts that I was directly responding to.....and please keep in mind that this was in Feb. of 2019, which was at a time when copying a person's already-on-the-Internet posts at this fully public forum was not considered a crime worthy of tarring-&-feathering or a violation of EF Forum rules). 😇

And I'm glad I did archive this particular discussion (entitled "Never A Phone Call"), because I notice it's a forum thread that has since been completely deleted from the EF database. And I think it was deleted because the person who started the thread was Rich Pope, and he evidently got booted from the forum shortly thereafter. And the normal routine back at that time (early 2019) was, for some reason, to totally delete the whole thread if the thread-starter later was banned from the forum. The same "deletion" policy was also in effect when Jim DiEugenio got booted temporarily in circa 2013 or so, causing me to have several dead DiEugenio-started threads at my site after I linked to them over there. I'm glad that that policy regarding banned members and their past posts has since changed.

-------------------------------------

http://jfk-archives/2019/02/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1307

-------------------------------------

Excerpts from two above-linked discussions....

RICH POPE SAID:
Researcher Jones Harris interviewed Ms. Postal and asked her if she had in fact sold a ticket to Oswald, she burst into tears and left the room. A short time later, Harris again asked Postal if she had in fact sold a ticket to Oswald and got the same response. From Postal's refusal to answer this question and her reaction being the same, Harris believes that Postal did in fact sell Oswald a theater ticket but was forced to lie to protect her own life.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Then Mr. Jones Harris would have had no choice but to call Johnny Brewer a li@r as well, because Brewer testified this way in 1964:

JOHNNY BREWER -- "He [Oswald] walked into the Texas Theatre and I walked up to the theatre, to the box office and asked Mrs. Postal if she sold a ticket to a man who was wearing a brown shirt, and she said no, she hadn't."

So, unless Johnny Brewer was lying, it means that Julia Postal had told Brewer immediately after Oswald entered the Texas Theater on 11/22/63 that the person in question in the brown shirt had not purchased a ticket.

Plus, there is Mrs. Postal's 12/4/63 affidavit, in which Postal says:

"I called the Police Department. .... The officer asked me if the man bought a ticket, and I told him no, he did not."

I suppose conspiracy believers will now gripe because Mrs. Postal didn't fill out her affidavit until December 4th, twelve days after the assassination.

But, as I mentioned earlier, in order for Postal to be lying about the "selling Oswald a ticket" subject, we'd have to believe that John Brewer ALSO decided to join the large brigade of li@rs that CTers think were connected with this murder case too.

Just how much of this constant "li@r, li@r" talk from the conspiracy theorists is a reasonable person supposed to tolerate before fighting back with a little common sense?




ADAM JOHNSON SAID:
Hi David,

All of your above post is sound and reasonable....

Now play detective for a minute ..... What logical reason would explain why Postal burst into tears not once but twice when asked "did you sell Oswald a ticket"?

Simple question, easy Yes or No answer.....why then does she break down?????

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I can't answer that question. Nobody can (except Julia herself). I have no idea why she would burst into tears at that moment. But I'd sure like to hear a tape recording of that particular conversation between Jones Harris and Julia Postal, in order to confirm that she "broke down" at the exact time during the interview when Harris apparently said she did.

Perhaps she was merely distraught and upset about the events of the entire day (e.g., the President being murdered plus the murder of a police officer who previously had worked at the Texas Theater). Perhaps Mrs. Postal was a person who couldn't help breaking down whenever the events of 11/22/63 were brought up. I don't know.


ADAM JOHNSON SAID:
Perhaps when he (Oswald) gets dragged out, she realizes she did sell that man a ticket, but it's too late to change her story.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
But why would she feel it was "too late" to tell the truth about it? If she really had sold Oswald a ticket and she merely made an honest mistake when she told Johnny Brewer (and the police on the telephone) that she hadn't sold him one, why would she necessarily feel obligated to stick to her first (incorrect) story? That doesn't make sense to me.

Also....

Regardless of whether Julia Postal sold Lee Harvey Oswald a movie ticket on November 22nd or not, the fact will remain (for all time) that the gun that Oswald carried into that movie theater that day was proven to be the gun that killed Police Officer J.D. Tippit. And nothing can change that irrevocable ballistics fact.

[...]

CHUCK SCHWARTZ SAID:
Why did LHO, after supposedly killing the President of the United States and a Dallas Police Officer, decide to take in a movie (and not pay for the movie ticket)?

I think his CIA handler told him to go [to] the Texas Theater and then the handler (probably DAP [David Atlee Phillips]) told Dulles where the killer / patsy was located and to have the police arrest him.

Working with Dulles was Charles Cabell (Dulles and Cabell were both fired by JFK for the Bay of Pigs fiasco), whose brother [was] Earle Cabell, the then Mayor of Dallas. It was Earle who told the Dallas Chief of Police to go get the killer -- he is in the theatre.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Good job, Chuck. You have managed to completely ignore the manner in which the police actually became aware of Lee Harvey Oswald's whereabouts in the Texas Theater, and instead you've decided it would be a good idea to just invent a bunch of crap about Dulles, Cabell, and that omnipresent "CIA handler".

Fantasy is a lot more intriguing than Julia Postal and Johnny Brewer, isn't it?

David Von Pein
February 26-27, 2016

Edited August 9, 2022 by David Von Pein