Evidence the Depository Rifle was ordered between August and October, 1963

[Gil Jesus]

One of the magazines Klein's had a monthly advertisement in was Guns Magazine. In examining its ads for 1963, we find that Klein's continued to offer the 36" rifle for sale through July, 1963. The Klein's ad appears on page 13 of that July issue.

In fact,Klein's didn't offer the 40" rifle for sale until August, 1963, as evident by its first advertising of the weapon.

You might recognize the catalog number for the 40" rifle is the same as the catalog number for the 36" rifle. This may have been an error because Klein's did not advertise in the September 1963 issue of Guns. When the ad reappeared in October, 1963, the only difference was the catalog number, C20-T750 had become C20-750. The "T" had been dropped.

The Guns Magazine ads are a key to when Klein's switched over to the 40" rifle. There's no evidence that Klein's advertised or sold the 40" rifle before this ad came out. No one has ever come forward with evidence that they purchased a 36" rifle from Klein's between March and August 1963 and received a 40" rifle in its place.

No evidence exists proving that Klein's substituted 40" rifles for customers who ordered 36" rifles.

The implication of this evidence is staggering. When added to the fake shipping papers, the phony money order, the phony deposit and the destroyed part 3 of the post office box application, we see that the 40" Depository rifle could not have been ordered before August, 1963, when it was first available. It also could not have been ordered on or after October 1963, because the catalog number had been changed.

So the evidence shows that the 40" Depository rifle with the 36" catalog number was ordered between August and October, 1963.

The timeline shows that Oswald was living in New Orleans at the time the 40" rifle became available for sale. It was at this time that he was using the ficticious "Hidell" name on flyers he was passing out. It was also the same time he had been trying to infiltrate the DRE in New Orleans. The same time he was arrested and those reports went into the files of the 112th Military Intelligence Group in San Antonio, the same group who would have provided extra security for JFK in Dallas.

So many coincidences.

BTW, someone other than Oswald ordered that rifle.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Gil Jesus

[Charles Blackmon]

So obviously this would make the BY photos fakes that were put together after the assassination, correct?

[John Butler]

13 minutes ago, Charles Blackmon said:

So obviously this would make the BY photos fakes that were put together after the assassination, correct?

Maybe or Maybe not?  I recall Oswald being shown a BYP on the 23rd or Saturday after the assassination (perhaps Friday evening after the detectives returned from Ruth's garage).  He said it wasn't him, but someone had pasted his head unto another's body.  In time he would show this as a fake. (another example of face masks as routine to change the identity of a person in a photo) 

Someone had to make the BYPs and store them in Ruth Paine's garage.  Just prior to the assassination, or at some earlier time.  Who stored the BYPs?  If Oswald didn't who?  Marina says he did.  Of course, Marina would have said anything to remain in the US and not have to return to Russia with her children.  Her duty was to keep track of Oswald.  She was seen as a spy by the FBI, Hosty.

If I am recalling Chris Bristow correctly, he noted through sun angles in the photo that would suggest March/April as one time and then Sept./Oct. as another.  

[Gerry Down]

The rifle in the backyard photos is a 40 inch rifle, and these photos were taken around March 31st 1963. So somehow Oswald got his hands on a 40 inch rifle. It stands to reason this is the rifle Klein's sent him.

[John Butler]

1 minute ago, Gerry Down said:

The rifle in the backyard photos is a 40 inch rifle, and these photos were taken around March 31st 1963. So somehow Oswald got his hands on a 40 inch rifle. It stands to reason this is the rifle Klein's sent him.

That is if you accept the BYPs as authentic.  Oswald didn't and said so.  I know they are fakes just by inspecting the shadows in the photo.  Noted earlier by others.  It has already been noted by others that the BYP rifle was not the one Oswald was alleged to have bought.  Oswald said he did not own a rifle.  Marina said he did.  Her part in this was keeping the investigation pointed away from the Soviet Union.  She would and did say things that would have convicted Oswald in a court or in public's mind.

[Gil Jesus]

3 hours ago, John Butler said:

That is if you accept the BYPs as authentic.  Oswald didn't and said so.  I know they are fakes just by inspecting the shadows in the photo.  Noted earlier by others.  It has already been noted by others that the BYP rifle was not the one Oswald was alleged to have bought.  Oswald said he did not own a rifle.  Marina said he did.  Her part in this was keeping the investigation pointed away from the Soviet Union.  She would and did say things that would have convicted Oswald in a court or in public's mind.

The Commission said that the photos were taken on March 31st. They based that on the testimony of Marina Oswald, who told them that she took the photos on a Sunday about two weeks before the Walker shooting. March 31st was mostly a cloudy day, but that doesn't mean the sun couldn't have poked through a few times.

One of the problems I have with the BYPs is if you look at the holster in CE 133-A, you'll see the sunlight reflecting off the front of it. As one who has worn both, I can see that that's a holster for a 5 or 6 inch barrel hanging below his belt. The holster for a 2" snub nose is attached to the belt at the top and doesn't hang below it. The holster in the photo is not the same holster recovered from his room.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Gil Jesus

[Ron Ege]

Gil, could it be that Lee was a holster collector?

[Gil Jesus]

8 hours ago, Ron Ege said:

Gil, could it be that Lee was a holster collector?

LOL, you know, I never thought of that. Maybe he was into leather.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Gil Jesus said:

LOL, you know, I never thought of that. Maybe he was into leather.

According Marina (and McMillan) he did some more weird stuff... it wasn't him drinking milk, it's where he got the milk from  

 

[Steve Thomas]

On 8/16/2022 at 1:26 PM, Gil Jesus said:

The holster for a 2" snub nose is attached to the belt at the top and doesn't hang below it. The holster in the photo is not the same holster recovered from his room.

 

Gil.

In all the studies I have looked at examining the BYP, I don't remember anyone looking at the revolver before. Good job.

To my untrained eye, they don't look like the same gun. Look at the flaring at the end of the handle. Also, does the revolver peek out from the bottom of the holster?

 

 

 

Steve Thomas

Edited December 26, 2022 by Steve Thomas

[John Butler]

19 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

The Commission said that the photos were taken on March 31st. They based that on the testimony of Marina Oswald, who told them that she took the photos on a Sunday about two weeks before the Walker shooting. March 31st was mostly a cloudy day, but that doesn't mean the sun couldn't have poked through a few times.

One of the problems I have with the BYPs is if you look at the holster in CE 133-A, you'll see the sunlight reflecting off the front of it. As one who has worn both, I can see that that's a holster for a 5 or 6 inch barrel hanging below his belt. The holster for a 2" snub nose is attached to the belt at the top and doesn't hang below it. The holster in the photo is not the same holster recovered from his room.

Has the holster been mentioned before?  I don't recall any mention previous to this.  

[Mark Ulrik]

19 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

One of the problems I have with the BYPs is if you look at the holster in CE 133-A, you'll see the sunlight reflecting off the front of it. As one who has worn both, I can see that that's a holster for a 5 or 6 inch barrel hanging below his belt. The holster for a 2" snub nose is attached to the belt at the top and doesn't hang below it. The holster in the photo is not the same holster recovered from his room.

If you take a sufficiently low-quality image and "enhance" it enough, you can prove almost anything.

[Gil Jesus]

1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said:

Gil.

In all the studies I have looked at examining the BYP, I don't remember anyone looking at the revolver before. Good job.

To my untrained eye, they don't look like the same gun. Look at the flaring at the end of the handle. Also, does the revolver peek out from the bottom of the holster?

Steve Thomas

Steve, I carried my Dad's old snub nose for several years, using it when I had to go to court to testify. If you look at the CE 144 holster, you'll see that the loop for the belt is at the very top and does not hang down. This should put the rotating cylinder even with his belt and the handle of the revolver up so high that it hits his elbow. That's what it used to do to me, hit my elbow and it was annoying.

But the holster in the BY photo looks like it hangs well below the belt, like a western holster.

The holster just doesn't look right to me. The revolver's chamber is well below his belt when ( if it werethe CE 144 holster ) it should be even with his belt. And to your point about it looking like the bottom is open and the gun barrel is protruding, yes back in those days they used to make some open holsters. I remember as a kid seeing police officers wearing them.

I'm not suggesting the photographs are faked, I'm suggesting that the weapons used in the making of these photographs are NOT the weapons the Commission claimed Oswald purchased. From the different sling mounts on the rifle to the western-style holster that looks like its holding a 6 inch revolver, I would consider the possibility that he borrowed these weapons from someone just for this photo op.

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Gil Jesus

[Ron Ege]

Gil,

I don't remember seeing before, your conjecture. 

Very interesting.

Could it have gone a little something like this?

"Lee, how about a little photo shoot?  You see, we need to further establish your Bonafide's as being a guy ready to fight alongside Fidel for 'Injustice, Untruth, and the Cuban Way'".

The Superman analogy would be rather apropos, given the plethora of things he supposedly accomplished!