The Case for a Mauser -- Part I

[Tom Gram]

3 minutes ago, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

Some more bits FYI , another picture of the live round, a report card on a 7.65 shell and part of a letter draft on the Mauser/Carcano discussion

According to an accompanying FD-302 report, the 7.65 shell turned over to the FBI on 12/2/63 by Fred Wells, a student from Cedar Hill, was found on a local shooting range, not Dealey Plaza:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10408#relPageId=278

He thought the shell might have been evidence of Oswald practicing with his rifle there. Assuming this report is true, the note on the receipt “determined of no value and destroyed” appears to be legit. 

[Guest]

The chain of evidence... well...

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans
Pictured removed to save attachm. space

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Tom Gram said:

According to an accompanying FD-302 report, the 7.65 shell turned over to the FBI on 12/2/63 by Fred Wells, a student from Cedar Hill, was found on a local shooting range, not Dealey Plaza:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10408#relPageId=278

He thought the shell might have been evidence of Oswald practicing with his rifle there. Assuming this report is true, the note on the receipt “determined of no value and destroyed” appears to be legit. 

Thanks for clearing that out

[Mart Hall]

It's extremely difficult to accept that police officers, including those with very good reasons for being familiar with guns, would misidentify a gun at close quarters in such an important case. 

I have an open mind as to whether the plotters put two shooters in the TSBD and intended to dispose of both of them.

But that would help explain the second and third shots that came within seconds, one shooter at both ends of the building would provide more scope for a successful hit and it would also explain why the shooter in the birds nest didn't shoot at JFK when the limo was on Houston. 

I found this in Malcolm Blunt's archive on DPUK. 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1VRW5qQuUKeU6Emw6w6oyMjOxKY7Qwtms

 

The WC were clearly concerned about the prospect of more than one rifle being involved, look at the handwritten notes:

"This is the most doubtful item in the list, it needs careful treatment so as not to cast doubt on all the rest. I believe we should be frank about the matter to get to the bottom of it". 

I have no knowledge of guns, but in a two shooter scenario, if a Mauser had also been found at the TSBD with a scope installed with three holes bored then one would have to reasonably assume that the repair tag would have been used to also tie that gun to Oswald. 

A second shooter would explain quite a number of anomalies.  

 

[Gil Jesus]

2 hours ago, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

Thanks for clearing that out

From the AARC:

"Document # 180-10077-10208 Is the 25 page statement of Dr. Charles Laburda. Dr. Laburda told Mr. Matthews that Mr. Weitzman was a chronic schizophrenic. He was constantly in fear of his life. Also, he would tell people some things to make them happy and get them to go away. This was the case with Mr. Weitzman’s identification of Watergate figures being in Dealey Plaza.

Dr. Laburda stated that Mr. Weitzman was on 800 mg. of Mellaril, which was increased to 1,000 mg. a day. Dr. Laburda stated that that is 200mg. above maximum which is generally used but Mr. Weitzman tolerates it well. Mr. Weitzman was also on 300 mg. of Elavil, an anti-depressant medication, which contributes also to regulating his sleep pattern.

Mr. Weitzman told Dr. Laburda that he believes positively there were two people shooting. That he saw some men crouching behind some bushes. Now he does not know who it was, but after the shooting the man was not there. I asked him at the time that it could have been somebody from the police and he said it could have been but then he said he found a spent cartridge at that time, and it was from a Mauser rifle 7.65 in that area. I suspect that these things are partly elaboration of somewhat what he had heard, what other people said, and speculation that had been advanced in the last ten years, so I could not say that this was the idea that he had at that time, but he told me that he believed from the beginning that there was more than one person shooting."

Almost 1/2 way down the page:

https://aarclibrary.org/blog/page/17/

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by Gil Jesus

[Guest]

On 8/25/2022 at 1:10 AM, Gil Jesus said:

From the AARC:

"Document # 180-10077-10208 Is the 25 page statement of Dr. Charles Laburda. Dr. Laburda told Mr. Matthews that Mr. Weitzman was a chronic schizophrenic. He was constantly in fear of his life. Also, he would tell people some things to make them happy and get them to go away. This was the case with Mr. Weitzman’s identification of Watergate figures being in Dealey Plaza.

Dr. Laburda stated that Mr. Weitzman was on 800 mg. of Mellaril, which was increased to 1,000 mg. a day. Dr. Laburda stated that that is 200mg. above maximum which is generally used but Mr. Weitzman tolerates it well. Mr. Weitzman was also on 300 mg. of Elavil, an anti-depressant medication, which contributes also to regulating his sleep pattern.

Mr. Weitzman told Dr. Laburda that he believes positively there were two people shooting. That he saw some men crouching behind some bushes. Now he does not know who it was, but after the shooting the man was not there. I asked him at the time that it could have been somebody from the police and he said it could have been but then he said he found a spent cartridge at that time, and it was from a Mauser rifle 7.65 in that area. I suspect that these things are partly elaboration of somewhat what he had heard, what other people said, and speculation that had been advanced in the last ten years, so I could not say that this was the idea that he had at that time, but he told me that he believed from the beginning that there was more than one person shooting."

Almost 1/2 way down the page:

https://aarclibrary.org/blog/page/17/

 

Thanks for the additional information; Did you see the picture I poste on the 7.65 Mauser engraved as such ?  As I believe this type of engraving was more period correct (v/s the later ones marked as such, or like it)

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans

[Denis Morissette]

2 hours ago, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

Thanks for the additional information; Did you see the picture I poste on the 7.65 Mauser engraved as such ?  As I believe this type of engraving was more period correct (v/s the later ones marked as such, or like it)

Would you be able to read this from a distance of a few feet? From what maximum distance would a normal person be able to read it?

 

[Denis Morissette]

Craig said in 1968 he did not know the rifle model.  It's possible that Craig got confused later thinking the rifle found was the Mauser found on the roof.   

Edited August 25, 2022 by Denis Morissette

[Denis Morissette]

Had Weitzman wanted to, he could have told CBS in 1967 that he read MAUSER on the rifle. But he did not. That's an extreme strong indication that he did not read Mauser. "Of course, it was a Mauser! It was written on it!"

[Paul Cummings]

44 minutes ago, Denis Morissette said:

Had Weitzman wanted to, he could have told CBS in 1967 that he read MAUSER on the rifle. But he did not. That's an extreme strong indication that he did not read Mauser. "Of course, it was a Mauser! It was written on it!"

You got the editing of the show as well?

[Denis Morissette]

3 hours ago, Paul Cummings said:

You got the editing of the show as well?

True that we don't have and will probably never have the whole interview. CBS told me they're not interested in making the whole interviews available. So I'll leave it at that. 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

10 hours ago, Mart Hall said:

It's extremely difficult to accept that police officers, including those with very good reasons for being familiar with guns, would misidentify a gun at close quarters in such an important case. 

I have an open mind as to whether the plotters put two shooters in the TSBD and intended to dispose of both of them.

But that would help explain the second and third shots that came within seconds, one shooter at both ends of the building would provide more scope for a successful hit and it would also explain why the shooter in the birds nest didn't shoot at JFK when the limo was on Houston. 

I found this in Malcolm Blunt's archive on DPUK. 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1VRW5qQuUKeU6Emw6w6oyMjOxKY7Qwtms

 

The WC were clearly concerned about the prospect of more than one rifle being involved, look at the handwritten notes:

"This is the most doubtful item in the list, it needs careful treatment so as not to cast doubt on all the rest. I believe we should be frank about the matter to get to the bottom of it". 

I have no knowledge of guns, but in a two shooter scenario, if a Mauser had also been found at the TSBD with a scope installed with three holes bored then one would have to reasonably assume that the repair tag would have been used to also tie that gun to Oswald. 

A second shooter would explain quite a number of anomalies.  

 

There appears to be about one second between the shot that struck Connally and the final head shot to JFK, re the Z film. 

Ergo....

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Denis Morissette said:

Would you be able to read this from a distance of a few feet? From what maximum distance would a normal person be able to read it?

 

I was only pointing out to a more period correct Mauser, how that looks like (the specific engraving on top).    I believe there are versions out there that have a larger fontsize, I'll post those when I get the pictures.  Not that it would make any difference to what ever. As said, merely the proof of a 7.65 Mauser existing with that engraving on top... no more... no less...

And we all know Craig changed his story a number of times, all the way up to the roof...

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans

[John Kowalski]

Link is for a story about the Mauser by James Day.

https://jamesfday.medium.com/the-jfk-assassination-hunting-down-the-mauser-6c30c8f6c6e5

[Denis Morissette]

On 8/25/2022 at 7:33 AM, Guest said:

I was only pointing out to a more period correct Mauser, how that looks like (the specific engraving on top).    I believe there are versions out there that have a larger fontsize, I'll post those when I get the pictures.  Not that it would make any difference to what ever. As said, merely the proof of a 7.65 Mauser existing with that engraving on top... no more... no less...

And we all know Craig changed his story a number of times, all the way up to the roof...

 

It's been almost two years since you said you would post the pictures. Can you do it now?