Is this the "rifle" bag?

[Richard Price]

In the linked video, I saw something I had not noticed before.  My comment in another posting (Alyea) was either not seen by other members or just went unanswered.  I asked if the object seen at 7:28 into the video was the bag supposedly used to bring the rifle into the TSBD.  It is a fleeting view of something falling from the top of the surrounding boxes while the rifle is being examined just after it has been found.

 

[Chris Davidson]

Richard,

I believe that is his arm moving downward, if that is what your referencing.

[Henry Frost]

If you're referring to what's happening in the back, it's the sun glare off the boxes behind Fritz. It's the camera and Fritz who are moving.

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Henry Frost

[Richard Price]

3 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

I believe that is his arm moving downward, if that is what your referencing.

Thanks, Chris.  I can see it today.  I think I watched it so much my eyes crossed and when I tried to slow it down for clarity, I lost focus on the preceding frames with his arm up holding the rifle.  Sorry to have bothered everyone with this mistake.

[Gerry Down]

It turns out the paper sack was photographed in the snipers nest at about 2pm, just not in the corner but on the stack of boxes behind the window. JFK researcher Patrick Jackson made this discovery some years ago. Here are the relevant photos explaining this discovery:

 

 

 

 

 

The below animation shows that the above photo was taken at about 2pm:

 

 

The below animation shows that the sack was taken from the TSBD at about 3:15pm:

 

 

 

[Gil Jesus]

6 hours ago, Richard Price said:

In the linked video, I saw something I had not noticed before.  My comment in another posting (Alyea) was either not seen by other members or just went unanswered.  I asked if the object seen at 7:28 into the video was the bag supposedly used to bring the rifle into the TSBD.  It is a fleeting view of something falling from the top of the surrounding boxes while the rifle is being examined just after it has been found.

 

At 7: 21: "This is an Argentine-made bolt action rifle"

I wonder where they got that from ?

Edited September 2, 2022 by Gil Jesus

[Henry Frost]

1 hour ago, Gerry Down said:

It turns out the paper sack was photographed in the snipers nest at about 2pm, just not in the corner but on the stack of boxes behind the window. JFK researcher Patrick Jackson made this discovery some years ago. Here are the relevant photos explaining this discovery:

That's awesome, I always wondered exactly where they found it.

48 minutes ago, Gil Jesus said:

At 7: 21: "This is an Argentine-made bolt action rifle"

I wonder where they got that from ?

Could be as simple as not being familiar with the Carcano.

How many rifles were found on the 6th floor?

Edit: I'm going through that interesting thread from 2012 I linked and came across this:

"Given what I've read about the gun smuggling going on at the TSBD"

Holy mackerel, what's next Operation Mongoose run by Truly?

Seriously  though, I found this link to another Tom Alyea film, a little different and better quality than the one in OP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94APWcGDMyY

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Henry Frost

[Pat Speer]

2 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

It turns out the paper sack was photographed in the snipers nest at about 2pm, just not in the corner but on the stack of boxes behind the window. JFK researcher Patrick Jackson made this discovery some years ago. Here are the relevant photos explaining this discovery:

 

 

 

 

 

The below animation shows that the above photo was taken at about 2pm:

 

 

The below animation shows that the sack was taken from the TSBD at about 3:15pm:

 

 

 

Montgomery's watch reads 3:00, which would place his leaving the TSBD with the bag at around the same time Day returned to the TSBD.

[Gerry Down]

14 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Montgomery's watch reads 3:00, which would place his leaving the TSBD with the bag at around the same time Day returned to the TSBD.

I don't think that would change anything. This is still a legit photo of the bag in the snipers nest. A similar dpd photo taken from a different angle shows no bag on top of the boxes. So I think the bag was physically taken by Montgomery while this set of photos were being taken.

[Pat Speer]

6 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

I don't think that would change anything. This is still a legit photo of the bag in the snipers nest. A similar dpd photo taken from a different angle shows no bag on top of the boxes. So I think the bag was physically taken by Montgomery while this set of photos were being taken.

I agree that that appears to be the bag in the photo. But it does nothing to prove or even suggest the bag was found as claimed. The bag was not on those boxes when Alyea filmed Fritz in the corner. This was before Montgomery and Johnson claimed they'd found the bag. They claimed, moreover, that they discovered the bag when Day was off inspecting the rifle on the other side of the building. Well, would they really just walk off and leave it near the sniper's nest, only to return later and take it downstairs? And if they really thought the bag had been used to smuggle the rifle into the building, why didn't they make sure Studebaker took a picture of it?

The best case scenario would be something like they found the bag, but had no idea if it was important, and just threw it atop the boxes. And that Studebaker was also oblivious and failed to take a picture of it. And that Day upon his return realized its possible importance, and told Montgomery and Johnson to run it over to the crime lab. That's the best case scenario. But even then you would still have to acknowledge that no one who'd actually stood in the sniper's nest prior to the discovery of the bag remembered seeing a bag just laying there that would have covered up most of the open space in the corner. And that's a huge problem...

[Gil Jesus]

15 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

It turns out the paper sack was photographed in the snipers nest at about 2pm, just not in the corner but on the stack of boxes behind the window. JFK researcher Patrick Jackson made this discovery some years ago. Here are the relevant photos explaining this discovery:

 

 

 

 

 

The below animation shows that the above photo was taken at about 2pm:

 

 

The below animation shows that the sack was taken from the TSBD at about 3:15pm:

 

 

 

Or maybe what you see in those pictures is not the paper "gunsack" but a paper filler used in the cartons to protect the books.

https://gil-jesus.com/the-paper-gunsack/

Edited September 3, 2022 by Gil Jesus

[Gerry Down]

7 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

I agree that that appears to be the bag in the photo. But it does nothing to prove or even suggest the bag was found as claimed. The bag was not on those boxes when Alyea filmed Fritz in the corner. This was before Montgomery and Johnson claimed they'd found the bag. They claimed, moreover, that they discovered the bag when Day was off inspecting the rifle on the other side of the building. Well, would they really just walk off and leave it near the sniper's nest, only to return later and take it downstairs? And if they really thought the bag had been used to smuggle the rifle into the building, why didn't they make sure Studebaker took a picture of it?

The best case scenario would be something like they found the bag, but had no idea if it was important, and just threw it atop the boxes. And that Studebaker was also oblivious and failed to take a picture of it. And that Day upon his return realized its possible importance, and told Montgomery and Johnson to run it over to the crime lab. That's the best case scenario. But even then you would still have to acknowledge that no one who'd actually stood in the sniper's nest prior to the discovery of the bag remembered seeing a bag just laying there that would have covered up most of the open space in the corner. And that's a huge problem...

I don't see any problem. They were moving everything around in that snipers nest; chicken bones, the gun rest boxes, possibly the shells too so I don't see any reason why the bag could also not have been moved. And we were just lucky enough for it to have been inadvertently photographed in one of the photos.

Whoever moved the bag from the corner to on top of the boxes would be unlikely to admit it when as the weekend progressed and Frazier gave his account of LHO bringing in a long brown paper package, the significance of the bag as evidence became apparent. It's called CYA.

[Gerry Down]

2 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

Or maybe what you see in those pictures is not the paper "gunsack" but a paper filler used in the cartons to protect the books.

https://gil-jesus.com/the-paper-gunsack/

That's a bit of a stretch. It's clearly the bag. I guess this means Frazier and the DPD were telling the truth about the bag afterall and Oswald wasn't.

[Ron Ege]

15 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

That's a bit of a stretch. It's clearly the bag. I guess this means Frazier and the DPD were telling the truth about the bag afterall and Oswald wasn't.

Gerry,

My eyes aren't what they used to be, so I cannot discern whether or not the photograph shows a actual "gun sack". - or as Gil suggests, paper filler. 

Perhaps I'm reading too much into what you've written.  Does what you said about Oswald lying mean that he did bring that type of sack (length x width, color, texture, etc.) to work that day?

Could you please share who it was that testified that LHO brought a sack of that type into the TSBD?  My memory is not what is used to be, either.

[Gerry Down]

38 minutes ago, Ron Ege said:

Gerry,

My eyes aren't what they used to be, so I cannot discern whether or not the photograph shows a actual "gun sack". - or as Gil suggests, paper filler. 

Perhaps I'm reading too much into what you've written.  Does what you said about Oswald lying mean that he did bring that type of sack (length x width, color, texture, etc.) to work that day?

Could you please share who it was that testified that LHO brought a sack of that type into the TSBD?  My memory is not what is used to be, either.

Frazier and his sister said LHO brought a long paper package to work that morning. Oswald denied this. Lo and behold a long paper package is found in the snipers nest.