Joe Bauer Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 On 9/11/2022 at 5:38 AM, Barry Keane said: The real power does not lay with the president. I think most intelligent Americans agree with your statement BK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 What is the provenance of Nixon's "open up the whole Bay Of Pigs" message/threat Nixon wanted Haldeman to convey to Helms? Was this quote on one of the WH tapes? Was this stated in Haldeman's memoirs? If "the whole Bay Of Pigs thing" threat was the heaviest one Nixon could come up with in his most desperate last gasp attempt to stay in office... there had to be something extraordinarily powerful about the event that Nixon thought he could scare Helms with. You can't help but think it had to do with JFK's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman T. Field Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 3 hours ago, Joe Bauer said: What is the provenance of Nixon's "open up the whole Bay Of Pigs" message/threat Nixon wanted Haldeman to convey to Helms? Was this quote on one of the WH tapes? Was this stated in Haldeman's memoirs? If "the whole Bay Of Pigs thing" threat was the heaviest one Nixon could come up with in his most desperate last gasp attempt to stay in office... there had to be something extraordinarily powerful about the event that Nixon thought he could scare Helms with. You can't help but think it had to do with JFK's death. IIRC, Haldeman's book details this conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Boylan Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 This one of the topics in Jeff Morley's new book - https://www.amazon.com/Scorpions-Dance-President-Spymaster-Watergate/dp/1250275830 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 8 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said: Oh, so now not sensible, but preferable Ben? Like a tyrant out of power hasn't ever tried to force his subjects to pick between him and the present government? And Ben just knee jerk swallows it and becomes his disciple and proclaims to everyone here his allegiance to Trump over the government, and he actually thinks he's an original for thinking that? How much more willing an attitude could a slave have? "There's a sucker born every minute" P.T. Barnum Kirk-- Set aside personalities (both foul, in their own ways): Are the policies of Trump better or worse than HRC's for the American employee class? Were the foreign-trade-military policies of Trump better or worse than HRC's? We need some more hysterical shrieks about democracy doomed under Trump...bring them on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 Obama tried to streamline the declassification process. Through this executive order https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13526 As you can see, other agencies were still allowed to say something about the process. As far as JFK goes though, both Trump and Biden could have declassified it all. Neither did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 6 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: Obama tried to streamline the declassification process. Through this executive order https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13526 As you can see, other agencies were still allowed to say something about the process. As far as JFK goes though, both Trump and Biden could have declassified it all. Neither did. A US President can declassify any federal document, without explanation. Presidential Power to Declassify Information, Explained https://www.nytimes.com › U.S. › Politics "Can presidents declassify matters directly? Yes, because it is ultimately their constitutional authority. Normally, presidents who want something declassified direct subordinates overseeing the department or agency with primary responsibility for the information to review the matter with an eye to making more of it public. But on rare occasions, presidents declassify something directly. For example, in 2004, President George W. Bush himself declassified a portion of his presidential daily intelligence briefing from August 2001 — a month before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks — in which he had been warned: 'Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.'" ---30--- This raises an issue in regards to Trump. He had the power to declassify documents, unilaterally and at will, including the JFK Records, as did all previous US Presidents. There might be some issue if Trump kept a record, or not, of what he declassified. Also, absconding with documents that belong to the federal government is illegal. The whole documents story is nutty. If Trump wanted the documents, why not just make copies, or even take pictures? As usual, Trump is an awful enigma. But if people think a US President should be denied the power to immediately declassify any and all documents, they are granting enormous powers the national security state. I mean, even more than they have. And the petty cowardice of US President hiding behind government security skirts in not declassifying JFK documents is demoralizing. Under constitutional law, all US President could have declassified all the JFK Records at any time. They don't need any say-so from security state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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