Cory Santos Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2022/104-10102-10224.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Koch Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 (edited) Bill Harvey, with upside down and half copied files.. Edited December 16, 2022 by Matthew Koch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Gram Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 11 minutes ago, Cory Santos said: https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2022/104-10102-10224.pdf Umm, is that “Liason Operations” section seriously still redacted? If so, wow indeed. That’s exactly the kind of stuff Gerry and I were just talking about in another thread, and absolutely critical information for us to know. The names of the “liaison services” assisting the CIA in operations against Cuba are still completely redacted. Could it be INS and Customs? The FBI? Private companies? Mexican intelligence? What identifiable harm would come from releasing the names of these services that were assisting the CIA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 But Tom remember, Shenon says there is nothing to see here. Then why are they still concealing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Santos Posted December 16, 2022 Author Share Posted December 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said: But Tom remember, Shenon says there is nothing to see here. Then why are they still concealing it? Think about the policy implications of the recommendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 This appears to be Harvey's effort to move operations against Cuba out from under interdepartmental control ie. Mongoose and back under Western Hemisphere - strictly within the CIA. A proposal to move himself and clandestine operations back inside CIA and away from administration/special group approvals and micromanagement. It didn't fly and Harvey found himself odd man out but as I said in another thread, you could always count on him expressing himself and not holding back all that much.... We have heard about this anecdotally but I don't know that we have seen these sort of specifics or this particular document before....then again I may just have missed it up to now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Santos Posted December 16, 2022 Author Share Posted December 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said: This appears to be Harvey's effort to move operations against Cuba out from under interdepartmental control ie. Mongoose and back under Western Hemisphere - strictly within the CIA. A proposal to move himself and clandestine operations back inside CIA and away from administration/special group approvals and micromanagement. It didn't fly and Harvey found himself odd man out but as I said in another thread, you could always count on him expressing himself and not holding back all that much.... We have heard about this anecdotally but I don't know that we have seen these sort of specifics or this particular document before....then again I may just have missed it up to now. This document is very significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 Larry: Would you not agree that this is a real policy dispute between the administration and the cowboy parts of the CIA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Santos Posted December 16, 2022 Author Share Posted December 16, 2022 1 minute ago, James DiEugenio said: Larry: Would you not agree that this is a real policy dispute between the administration and the cowboy parts of the CIA? Big time YES. Shows they were in direct conflict with JFK’s policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 Oh absolutely, Harvey and the CIA clandestine ops guys (the PM and maritime ops types or "cowboys"" ) were never fans of Harvey - they considered mamy of his ideas wildly impractical and his plans to be so detailed as to be laughable. That has been written about by several of those who were involved at the time The really ironic thing is that JFK continually wanted to run an anti-Castro effort as an inter-agency effort and Harvey, Shackley, Morales et al always objected to that...and to being controlled. The cancellation of Mongoose ended the first attempt at control but in reality JFK did the same thing again starting in spring of 63, establishing a new inter-agency effort with State supposedly in charge and with Fitzgerald essentially replacing Harvey to lead the CIA element. But the guys in Miami, the cowboys as you say, were not more excited by the new high level programs coming down to them in 63 than Harvey had generally been in 62. So yes, it was always a fundamental policy dispute between the Administration and the field guys down in Miami, especially the cowboys setting up and running the actual missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 Yes, I agree with both of you. Nice find Cory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Santos Posted December 16, 2022 Author Share Posted December 16, 2022 24 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said: Yes, I agree with both of you. Nice find Cory. Thank you sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Backes Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 This document was previously released on Nov 9th, 2017. Very little new has been released. Basically: On p. 8 chapter 4 “Liaison Operations,” is the title summed up in this paragraph. “We will continue to press the liaison services who are assisting us..” And then they continue to redact the liaison services who are most effectively cooperating. They continue to redact where they have audio and telephone tap penetration coverage of Cuban official installations. Two lines of text are redacted, far more than is needed to hide the two words “Mexico City.” On p. 10 in paragraph 8 the redacted word is Miami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 Really sick. There should be no redactions today. None. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Backes Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 Vince Palamara found a cleaner copy that's easier to read. No upside down pages or a page that so off kilter less than half of it got copied because whoever was copying it couldn't give a damn. https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2022/104-10103-10079.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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