Question about the RFK Papers

[Lori Spencer]

On 12/28/2022 at 11:29 PM, Bob Ness said:

@Lori Spencer These may be of interest to you. Lotsa info on Walter Sheridan from the LaRouche magazine Executive Intelligence Review. Not my political cup of tea and I can't vouch for the reporting but worth the read. Borrows from Hougan's book "Spooks" quite heavily. A lot of stuff on Sheridan taking down Garrison.

Quite an interesting read for anyone interested in the JFKA. Seems NBC has a lot to hide and if true, it's no wonder they blither on the way they do. Goes on about Bloomfield and Permindex. A lot of this could be why the Sheridan collection has been shielded by RFK's family and NBC.

 

part 1 https://larouchepub.com/eiw/public/1981/eirv08n49-19811222/eirv08n49-19811222_052-introducing_nbcs_walter_sheridan.pdf

part 2 https://larouchepub.com/eiw/public/1981/eirv08n50-19811229/eirv08n50-19811229_058-how_permindexs_walter_sheridan_t.pdf

part 3 https://larouchepub.com/eiw/public/1982/eirv09n02-19820112/eirv09n02-19820112_055-sheridans_operations_against_tea.pdf

Permindex related:

The Permindex Connection (larouchepub.com)

Bob, I apologize for the late reply. Haven’t been on the board in a while. 
 

Those articles were a great read! Thank you! 

[Roger Odisio]

On 12/23/2022 at 10:34 PM, Joseph Backes said:

No, the RFK papers are not subject to the Act. If they were the ARRB would have gotten them in the 1990's. If Larry thinks he can sue to get them he's a fool. 

At best the government would have to do a taking, seize them like an eminent domain kind a deal, similar to what the ARRB did with the Zapruder film.  But that was easier to do because the language of the Act made the Z film an "assassination record" by default.  The RFK records are by no means similar in any way to what Trump did with classified records at Mar-A-Largo. That's a stupid analogy Larry is making.  And in my opinion speaks to the fact that Larry doesn't know what he's taking about. 

The 2012 BG article mentions that the Kennedy family and NARA have a deposit agreement.  It is legally binding.  There is supposedly a 40 page index to the RFK documents but that was never made public, not by the Kennedy family, not by NARA, and not by the BG. The article does describe some of the files in general terms as to subject matter.  

Larry knows nothing about the deposit agreement between the Kennedy family and NARA. He's not going to be able to successfully challenge any part of it. Nor will he get any records from NBC like the Sheridan papers or the Darnell film.  That would entail the government going to court to do what it called a taking, again, like the Z film.  The US government has no appetite for such a legal fight. These are just pipe dreams.  Fodder for Fox News viewers who love a dig at NBC.  

He should confine himself to proving the government is not following its own law regarding the documents in the JFK Records Collection.  There is an abundance of proof of that. If we get anywhere with that it'll be a miracle. 

Joe

Let me back up a minute to correct something you said, Joe.  The definition of what a JFK record is is not that contained in the language of the JFK Act.  The politicians writing the law recognized they lacked the expertise to define the term to make it fully useful to researchers. They delegated that responsibility to the Records Review Board which they had tasked with the job of collecting and releasing the information.

The ARRB quickly realized that defining a record as only that held by government agencies was inadequate.  Judge Tunheim said at his nomination hearing:  "I firmly believe that the Board has an obligation to seek out assassination records from all sources public and private.  The goal of Congress in passing S. 3006 was to ensure broadest possible disclosure of the records relating to the assassination.  The fact that a document exists only in private hands should not deter the Board in any way from from seeking to compel its transmission to the National Archives."  (see ARRB Final Report, Chapter7, "Pursuit of Records and Information from Non-Federal Sources" where these kinds of pursuits by the ARRB are discussed)

The Board's final definition of record, issued June 28, 1995, therefore was made as broad as possible:  a record "shall include, but is not limited to (!) all records, public and private, that document, describe, report on, analyze, or interpret activities, persons, or events reasonably related to the assassination and investigations or inquiries into the Assassination"  It was, they said, the most comprehensive definition they could come up with.  

The Darnell and Wiegman films clearly qualify. As does the Sheridan papers, particularly the work he did with/to the Garrison investigation and anything he may have done for Bobby about JFK's murder. 

Tunheim said he believed the Board had the authority to compel the release of any JFK record.  NARA now has that authority (I don't think you want argue otherwise, do you?)

But will they seek records not in the Collection from non-government sources?  On November 3, I emailed NARA asking if they accepted recommendation for records to be added to the Collection.  Two weeks later I received the answer:  "The short answer is: yes, we do accept recommendations....If you believe that there may be records outside the custody of NARA that belong in our holdings, we ask that you provide the details to NARA's General Counsel."   The next day I sent a recommendation to NARA that the Darnell and Wiegman films be included in the Collection, describing them and and indicating that adding them to the Collection was only way the camera originals will ever be seen, given NBC Universal's stance. 

They wouldn't have said they accepted recommendations for new records, and asked for them, if they didn't think they had the authority to pursue them.

Bill and Larry know about this exchange and have indicated that such record pursuits will be part of their law suit.

 

[Lawrence Schnapf]

@Roger Odisio What Joe Backes doesnt understand is that certain documents held by the RFK Trust were not identified as assassination records because of a deal the ARRB cut some deals including with the RFK family Trust in the waning days of the ARRB. Instead of identifying certain documents as assassination records, the ARRB obtained a commitment from the Trust to have certain documents turned over to NARA.  I believe this set of documents may have been released in 2012. There were other documents that ARRB was still in negotiations with the Trust about when it went out of business. those remain outside of the JFK Collection.

Joe Backes assessment about what records can be obtained, the need to get the government to sue for them and other "pipe dreams" just reflects his ignorance or lack of sophistication about the legal process and negotiating. Of course, he has not been negotiating business transactions or working on FOIA matters for nearly 40 years like I have so he does not understand the art of making the impossible happen.    

There are a number of ways we can get around the deed of gift issue and other materials but since we have ongoing lawsuit with POTUS and NARA, I am not liberty to share certain things. Joe really should limit his comments to what he does best which is to search and index assassination records. To borrow the line from J Gordy Liddy, when it comes to legal issues and strategy, Joe is unarmed and is simply engaging in mental masturbation. I suspect most here dont want to join him in that endeavor.

And to confirm to others, Bill and I are aware of Roger's emails with NARA and are grateful that he shariedthem with us.  If anyone else has had communications with NARA recently about the JFK Collection that you think may be pertinent, please share them with me at Larry@schnapflaw.com so we can assess their usefulness. You dont have to be part of the legal team to help this effort.            

[Cory Santos]

On 12/24/2022 at 7:23 PM, Lawrence Schnapf said:

@Lori Spencer@Joseph Backes

In the spirit of the holiday, I will not characterize Joe Backes comments about the RFK family trust except to say he is not a lawyer and he is wrong. And yes Joe- RFK took files and tapes from the oval office after the assassination just like Donald Trump did when his presidency ended. 

I suggest others read the ARRB final report for more information about the RFK Family Trust papers. The ARB was negotiating a deposit agreement with the RFK Trust under an arrangement where the ARRB would decline to identify those materials as assassination records. The agreement was not finalized because the arrangement was not finalized at the time the ARRB went out of business

The Walter Sheridan records were identified as assassination records and were not part of the RFK Family Trust. they were his papers donated to the JFK Library.  The ARRB asked the JFK Library to turn them over. To prevent this from happening, Sheridan removed them from the JFK Library and gave them to NBC which has refused to give them to NARA. This is not my interpretation. Judge Tunheim explained this situation at the December 6th MFF press conference.  ARRB sued the Sheridan estate but the lawsuit was closed after the ARRB went out of business.  I am in the process of obtaining these court papers. 

And yes Joe, a court could order that that assassination records be turned over to NARA so long as they are not subject to the section 10 or 11 exemptions. The Sheridan materials do not fall into within the exemptions.  I cannot discuss legal strategy involving the MFF complaint  but can assure you we have a plan.           

Just read this and got a chuckle from your reply.   Good and calm response Lawrence.  

Edited January 10, 2023 by Cory Santos

[Ron Bulman]

Regarding RFK, I received for Christmas from a daughter, Bobby Kennedy A Raging Spirit, by Chris Matthews.  Thus far, an objective biography.  A couple of interesting quotes.

The Army - McCarthy hearings began that April (195?).  With Democratic leader Lyndon Johnson pushing hard, the decision was made to have them televised live.  Detesting McCarthy the Texan sensed the wind was about to shift.  Pg. 123.

Regarding those same hearings, Senator Scoop Jackson (RFK was an assistant) and a lawyer named Roy Cohn of later fame.  Pg. 125.

But as Jackson kept asking questions . . . his broad smile remained.  This drove Chon beyond his boiling point.  When the chair called a recess, he darted for Kennedy, where he jabbed a file in front of his face.   Tell Jackson we're going to get him on Monday, Cohn warned. 

Tell him yourself Kennedy shot back.  Don't threaten me.  You've got a fuc*ing nerve threatening me. 

The taunting was now turning physical.  Seeing Cohn cock his arm, bystanders stepped in and stopped him.  Bobby had gotten to his rival and knew it. 

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Regarding RFK, I received for Christmas from a daughter, Bobby Kennedy A Raging Spirit, by Chris Matthews.  Thus far, an objective biography.  A couple of interesting quotes.

The Army - McCarthy hearings began that April (195?).  With Democratic leader Lyndon Johnson pushing hard, the decision was made to have them televised live.  Detesting McCarthy the Texan sensed the wind was about to shift.  Pg. 123.

Regarding those same hearings, Senator Scoop Jackson (RFK was an assistant) and a lawyer named Roy Cohn of later fame.  Pg. 125.

But as Jackson kept asking questions . . . his broad smile remained.  This drove Chon beyond his boiling point.  When the chair called a recess, he darted for Kennedy, where he jabbed a file in front of his face.   Tell Jackson we're going to get him on Monday, Cohn warned. 

Tell him yourself Kennedy shot back.  Don't threaten me.  You've got a fuc*ing nerve threatening me. 

The taunting was now turning physical.  Seeing Cohn cock his arm, bystanders stepped in and stopped him.  Bobby had gotten to his rival and knew it. 

 

Love it.
 

Was just mentioning that Cohn was Trump’s mentor to @Matthew Koch. He’ll have learned plenty of deceit there.