Connally Doc: "Bullet is in the leg, it hasn't been removed"

[Gil Jesus]

3 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

David. Have you paused for a moment and thought about what you are saying and the improbable nature of it? This explanation is really on a par with one of the 9/11 hijacker pilots having is passport found in near pristine condition amongst the rubble at ground zero, when everything else was turned to ash and sider. The statistical odds and level of imagination are about the same or in the same ball park. If you were there with a whiteboard doing a presentation, how could you possibly keep a straight face when explaining this process to an audience? You find the bullet in near pristine condition on a gurney, yet its causing all those wounds and contacting bone. 

The truth is; people who believe in the lone nut theory love to post in a reactionary fashion but, if someone just asks you to explain what happened, it can’t be done in a way that seems plausible to anyone who has experience with firearms or ballistics. Thats not to say that dishonest figures haven’t done their best. 

 

 

You can always tell when someone can't prove what they say when they use buzz words and phrases like,  "probably, possibly, might have, could have and may have." These are all tips that the writer is posting an opinion without evidence.

What Mr. Von Pein and others like him don't realize is while they're entirely within their right to express their opinions, those opinions don't trump evidence.

Even though they act like they do.

[Guest]

On 1/2/2023 at 3:42 AM, Gil Jesus said:

Did Dr. Shaw state he didn't believe the Magic Bullet could have caused Connally bone fractures and look as pristine as it was?

I think I'll give Shaw's credibility factor more weight than Spector and others.

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Guest]

On 1/2/2023 at 9:29 AM, Gil Jesus said:

You can always tell when someone can't prove what they say when they use buzz words and phrases like,  "probably, possibly, might have, could have and may have." These are all tips that the writer is posting an opinion without evidence.

What Mr. Von Pein and others like him don't realize is while they're entirely within their right to express their opinions, those opinions don't trump evidence.

Even though they act like they do.

Bye

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Matthew Koch]

23 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:

No, you have it backwards. There is evidence: The hospital records, CE 399 and the fragments in Connally's leg. There is also an absence of evidence - any other plausible bullet candidate. Neither you nor I nor anyone else has a definitive explanation for why fragments remained in Connally's leg. Ergo, speculation ("possibly, probably") is inevitable. The issue is whether that speculation is reasonable, whether reasonable inferences are drawn. The conspiracy chain of "logic" involves (1) ignoring the actual evidence such as the hospital records and (2) engaging in raw speculation at literally every stage. Hence, you seize upon something as demonstrably weak and easily explained as Shaw's press conference as though it were some sort of smoking gun. This is why what's far more interesting to me than CTers' versions of the evidence is why they so often rely on what is patently flawed reasoning.

I'll use occum's razor here and either something that has never been reproduced happened or when the bullet exited Connally's chest it hit his wrist and the projectile broke apart and small fragment entered Connally's thigh. The remainder of the fragments found under the seats is obviously from Connally which is why the Justice department wouldn't do DNA testing. Lance go look at his cloths, the bullet hole in Connally's pants isn't big enough to a whole bullet, because a whole bullet never entered the Governor's leg, just a small fragment did. 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Matthew Koch

[Guest]

On 1/2/2023 at 10:03 AM, Matthew Koch said:

I'll use occum's razor here and either something that has never been reproduced happened or when the bullet exited Connally's chest it hit his wrist and the projectile broke apart and small fragment entered Connally's thigh. The remainder of the fragments found under the seats is obviously from Connally which is why the Justice department wouldn't do DNA testing. Lance go look at his cloths, the bullet hole in Connally's pants isn't big enough to a whole bullet, because a whole bullet never entered the Governor's leg, just a small fragment did. 

Bye

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Matthew Koch]

Thanks for sharing the picture 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Matthew Koch

[Joe Bauer]

38 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:

This is kind of fascinating, just in case anyone hasn't seen it: https://www.tsl.texas.gov/sites/default/files/public/tslac/landing/documents/jfk-damaged-clothing18.pdf. There are really close-up color photos of the damage to every item of Connally's clothing.

The hole in the pants leg is "3⁄8 inches wide; ¼ inches high" according to the site. Whether that is "too small" for the bullet, I lack the expertise to say.

The pristine bullet made that dinky hole in the pant leg after ripping shreads through his other clothing?

[Joe Bauer]

1 hour ago, Lance Payette said:

What the bullet coulda, shoulda, woulda looked like is a matter of ballistics, not medical opinion. When I saw a 6.5 Carcano penetrate 21" of pine and look as pristine as CE 399 (if not more so) when it was retrieved, I tuned out of the Magic Bullet debate.

Going through 21 inches of solid pine and showing less damage than the Magic Bullet?

Really?

We live in a Pine tree forest.

I guarantee you that if someone fired a rifle bullet into a 21 inch thick pine tree, an exiting bullet would not look like the Magic Bullet. In fact, the bullet would have been lodged in the tree.

Now, a 50 caliber bullet? 

[Guest]

On 1/2/2023 at 11:04 AM, Joe Bauer said:

Going through 21 inches of solid pine and showing less damage than the Magic Bullet?

Really?

We live in a Pine tree forest.

I guarantee you that if someone fired a rifle bullet into a 21 inch thick pine tree, an exiting bullet would not look like the Magic Bullet. In fact, the bullet would have been lodged in the tree.

Now, a 50 caliber bullet? 

Bye

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Tommy Tomlinson]

2 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

What the bullet coulda, shoulda, woulda looked like is a matter of ballistics, not medical opinion. When I saw a 6.5 Carcano penetrate 21" of pine and look as pristine as CE 399 (if not more so) when it was retrieved, I tuned out of the Magic Bullet debate. As my above post with the medical records makes clear, there was no bullet in Connally's thigh. There was no bullet anywhere else except CE 399. I hardly call accepting CE 399 "wild speculation."

But it doesn't help when that ballistic evidence is not only ignored, but deliberately twisted.

Dr Joseph Dolce was pretty much the most highly rated wound ballistics expert in the US, if not the world. He was called in to test the rifle and the ammunition to see if the Magic Bullet was actually possible. I don't think Specter cared about whether it was probable, or likely... just theoretically "Possible" was what they needed. As we've seen, squeezing the theoretically possible into a fact shaped box is their speciality. 

Dolce told the team at Edgewood Arsenal exactly what tests to perform, and how to perform them including how to establish control subjects for each bullet, including various tests at different ambient temperatures to remove as much speculation from the equation as possible, before committing to their findings. When Dr Dolce presented his findings to Specter including the finding that given his level of expertise in the field, CE399's suggested foray through Kennedy and Connally was "Physically Impossible"  Specter swiftly lost his phone number and thought no more about including Dolce in the proceedings of the Commission. Specter moved on to other, more pliable, scientists from Edgewood who gave their new, Specter approved. opinions... that literally contradicted the results of the scientific reports they had presented to the Commission.

At which point Dr Dolce, as the kids refer to it "Totally lost his $*&%" and wrote an angry letter detailing his outrage at the way the Commission was playing fast and loose with his ballistic testing.

Of course it was ignored, and since it never found its way into the final Warren Report it "doesn't count" for some reason.

 

But as to a matter of ballistics... yeah... that stuff exists. It was conducted by the leading expert in the field. It's just that it shows the Magic Bullet to be a flawed theory. 

[Joe Bauer]

THROUGH THIRTY-SIX 1" PINE BOARDS... AND REMAINED COMPLETELY UNDEFORMED?

NOW THE PINE BOARD TARGET IS A YARD THICK?

UNTIL I HEAR SOME OTHER CREDIBLE BALLISTIC EXPERT AUTHORITY STATE A CARCANO BULLET GOING THROUGH THAT MUCH WOOD ( EVEN SOFT WOOD LIKE PINE ) WITHOUT ANY DEFORMITY, I CAN'T ACCEPT THAT PROCLAMATION.

[Vince Palamara]

7 minutes ago, Tommy Tomlinson said:

But it doesn't help when that ballistic evidence is not only ignored, but deliberately twisted.

Dr Joseph Dolce was pretty much the most highly rated wound ballistics expert in the US, if not the world. He was called in to test the rifle and the ammunition to see if the Magic Bullet was actually possible. I don't think Specter cared about whether it was probable, or likely... just theoretically "Possible" was what they needed. As we've seen, squeezing the theoretically possible into a fact shaped box is their speciality. 

Dolce told the team at Edgewood Arsenal exactly what tests to perform, and how to perform them including how to establish control subjects for each bullet, including various tests at different ambient temperatures to remove as much speculation from the equation as possible, before committing to their findings. When Dr Dolce presented his findings to Specter including the finding that given his level of expertise in the field, CE399's suggested foray through Kennedy and Connally was "Physically Impossible"  Specter swiftly lost his phone number and thought no more about including Dolce in the proceedings of the Commission. Specter moved on to other, more pliable, scientists from Edgewood who gave their new, Specter approved. opinions... that literally contradicted the results of the scientific reports they had presented to the Commission.

At which point Dr Dolce, as the kids refer to it "Totally lost his $*&%" and wrote an angry letter detailing his outrage at the way the Commission was playing fast and loose with his ballistic testing.

Of course it was ignored, and since it never found its way into the final Warren Report it "doesn't count" for some reason.

 

But as to a matter of ballistics... yeah... that stuff exists. It was conducted by the leading expert in the field. It's just that it shows the Magic Bullet to be a flawed theory. 

 

[Joe Bauer]

3 minutes ago, Vince Palamara said:

 

Arguing against Dolce's findings seems so weak it is unbalanced.

[Tommy Tomlinson]

1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said:

Going through 21 inches of solid pine and showing less damage than the Magic Bullet?

Really?

We live in a Pine tree forest.

I guarantee you that if someone fired a rifle bullet into a 21 inch thick pine tree, an exiting bullet would not look like the Magic Bullet. In fact, the bullet would have been lodged in the tree.

Now, a 50 caliber bullet? 

Oh, is that the Youtube video where someone shoots a Carcano 6.5 jacketed round into a bunch of seasoned pine wood planks but doesn't explain to its viewers how having a solid softwood surround limits a jacketed bullets capacity to expand outwards along its edges/side because the kinetic energy is driving it forward not outward. If a bullet hits something hard and has the space around it to expand, it expands, but shooting into certain grades of wood hits the sweet spot for maintaining its integrity. The bullets nose has the shape to split through the wood until inertia eventually slows it down. but the wood is strong enough to restrict the expansion...

They won't try that trick with mahogany, or a few sheets of Brazilian walnut because the bullet would turn to mush.

But... I guess that#s what qualifies as expertise these days... It's not like when a trained forensic ballistics expert shoots the actual rifle, using the same batch of ammunition through many human wrists and the bullets all take on the appearance of a marshmallow mushroom. Soft wood planks are a far better  judge of what a bullet does when passing through a human wrist than... a ballistics expert shooting it through a human wrist ever will.

That IS the argument... right?

 

[Guest]

On 1/2/2023 at 12:34 PM, Joe Bauer said:

THROUGH THIRTY-SIX 1" PINE BOARDS... AND REMAINED COMPLETELY UNDEFORMED?

NOW THE PINE BOARD TARGET IS A YARD THICK?

UNTIL I HEAR SOME OTHER CREDIBLE BALLISTIC EXPERT AUTHORITY STATE A CARCANO BULLET GOING THROUGH THAT MUCH WOOD ( EVEN SOFT WOOD LIKE PINE ) WITHOUT ANY DEFORMITY, I CAN'T ACCEPT THAT PROCLAMATION.

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette