Jefferson Morley on JFK Documents: CIA Caught Changing Oswald Story

[James DiEugenio]

I don't believe in Wokeism.  I think that is, like PC, a rightwing invention. 

I believe in Hallin's spheres.

1.) Consensus

2.) Legitimate controversy

3.) Deviance

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallin's_spheres

The sphere of deviance defines what does not get reported, even if its true.  In other words, you could debate the Iraq War, but you could not say that Cheney and RIce were XXXXX.  Even though that was true.

You could debate the Vietnam War but you could not say that we were backing a thief and drug trader who admired Hitler.  Even though Ky did all three. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Joseph McBride]

Actually, the phrase "political correctness" was popularized

by George H. W. Bush as a slam at liberals. It's ironic

that many liberals eagerly embraced it. In regard to

what Obama dubbed "cancel culture," "political correctness" has now become

another form of McCarthyism.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

My understanding of Overton Window is that it frames the channel of ideas in discourse and how that impacts politics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

I don't know what you guys watch or listen to but the so called political debate has now gotten more and more restrictive , not broader.

We have a guy as president who voted for the Iraq War, but yet wants to convey the idea he did not.  In fact, Biden was talking up a war years before the invasion.  The Democratic candidate before him also voted for the Iraq War. That war, IMO, was the biggest American foreign policy catastrophe since Vietnam. Bernie Sanders did not vote for it.. And the whole Democratic power structure turned against him and for Biden when it looked like Sanders might win.

Where was the Overton Window shift with Sanders?  Where was the Overton Shift with Iraq?

Now once Obama won, he installs HRC as Secretary of State, one of the true debacles in recent history.  Her, RIce and Power, the three witches, convince Obama to invade Libya using NATO.  How does one invade North Africa using NATO?  This turned out to be a first class disaster. 

Where was the Overton window shift there?

What about Syria?  Obama brags, hey I did not listen to the three witches this time.  But secretly he did by launching TImber Sycamore, a 1.6 billion CIA covert action against Assad. This was another major debacle that almost installed Al Qaeda in Syria.  True craziness.

Where was the Overton window there?

The three main networks, and the four major newspapers--NY TImes, Wall Street Journal, LA TImes and W Post--have not shifted. And they have a great reach since they have now sunk their talons into the web. 

But beyond that, look at Google, and how they tilt searches and ghost certain sites. Look at Bezos, Amazon and the CIA.  Look at Wikipedia and the JFK assassination.

So I am sorry but I do not buy this Overton Shift.

And I was always more favorable to the Hallin's circles theory.

 

James, I think there is a misinterpretation or misunderstanding in what Matt & I are saying (if I indeed understand Matt.K correctly). The window or parameters haven't expanded, they've moved and moved left. 

As you've pointed out; war mongering has remained consistent. That is one paradigm of many. 
 

[Paul Brancato]

13 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

Actually, the phrase "political correctness" was popularized

by George H. W. Bush as a slam at liberals. It's ironic

that many liberals eagerly embraced it. In regard to

what Obama dubbed "cancel culture," "political correctness" has now become

another form of McCarthyism.

Thank you GHW Bush. I’d forgotten that. Woke strikes me as a similar right wing slam, a word that mischaracterizes a social movement and provides a concise propaganda target. Racists, sexists and homophobics are gifted a word by wordsmiths with an anti equality agenda that they can hide behind. And it is a huge problem when msm popularizes these loaded words and phrases.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Thank you GHW Bush. I’d forgotten that. Woke strikes me as a similar right wing slam, a word that mischaracterizes a social movement and provides a concise propaganda target. Racists, sexists and homophobics are gifted a word by wordsmiths with an anti equality agenda that they can hide behind. And it is a huge problem when msm popularizes these loaded words and phrases.

Paul, it can be weaponised linguistics but, also consider why the MSM/Govt is perpetually coming up with new phrases, classifications, terms, redefining the meaning of language. Is this also weaponised linguistics? Both sides play the game. And above that a ruling class pull the strings in my opinion. 
 

PS It might not be that they originate from the government per se, they certainly adopt and propagate the linguistics. 
Some may also say the dictionary is always expanding, true, but, when we have perfectly adequate words, why are we adding new unnecessarily? Because the old ones have a well defined meaning. 

 

 

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

Well first off, the co opting of JFK by the current right is indeed laughable. Kennedy's "New Frontier" included a belief in science.

JFK also wouldn't have seen world climate change as a Gates -Soros scam to make money! , Nor would JFK have thought the Covid pandemic was a Faucci- Gates conspiracy with the Chinese either, whether it accidentally got out of the lab or not, or whether his nephew thought otherwise. JFK would have stood behind  the science of his day, and there wouldn't have been near the resistance that there is today.

As Jim said,  JFK would have expanded the safety net which I think that would have eventually lead to universal Health Care, which you guys, as conservatives would have opposed, and did in fact oppose. He also was pro labor.

20 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

We have a guy as president who voted for the Iraq War, but yet wants to convey the idea he did not.  In fact, Biden was talking up a war years before the invasion.  The Democratic candidate before him also voted for the Iraq War.

Interestingly enough Jim, Few people know that Biden was one of 47 who opposed the First Persian Gulf War. But as a typical opposition Senator, he started  changing his stripes, after it was deemed successful. And sure enough has done just the opposites in recent years about his voting for Bush's War in Iraq in 2003.

We know Hilary fell in line for GW's Iraq War, but it's actually because she's never done anything that wasn't politically calculated. Any aspiring Democrat Senate Presidential hopeful would have probably fallen in line as well, Because believe it or not, it's a political freebie! The Democrat must  look pro defense, while if the war fails, as it did, they can always blame the execution on the Republican President and claim they were just supporting the administration in a time of grave foreign crisis! That's just politics!

As for her role in the bombing of Libya, any Republican President would have done the same and scoffed at any of the claims that were made later about  destabilizing the region. They all fell for the "Arab Spring" commentary!

Obama was out of office during the time in 2003, when Bush lead the charge to the War in Iraq. But all politicians release public statements, and Obama was against the War in Iraq.

Biden's opposition to the First Persian Gulf War is below.  And this is from the "Intercept", which at one time was Glenn Grenwald's own website, which was given, as a 250 million dollar gift to him from Pierre Omydiar, the founder of Ebay!  No wonder he's so down on tech! Hint: all Greenwald's obsessive villains have a personal story!

 

https://theintercept.com/empire-politician/biden-1991-iraq-gulf-war/

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Kirk Gallaway

[James DiEugenio]

I don't agree the window has shifted Left.

I already spoke about the MSM on one hand.

When you get to things like Cable, what do you have: MSNBC as your doctrinare "liberal" channel?

But then you have Fox, Newsmax and OAN, who get about double their ratings. 

 

[James DiEugenio]

I think I mentioned this earlier but the GOP has had both its liberal and moderate wings eviscerated over time.

Well, as this has happened, and it was pretty much over by the time Reagan left office, the rightwing has come to create its own media echo chamber.

Two landmarks were the creation of the Rush Limbaugh network through ABC radio initially, and then after Reagan disposed of the Fairness Doctrine, Murdoch put together Fox.  And so the new GOP  had its own media bandbox to play in.  This is how a party that really has nothing to offer the public--except the ultra rich--has come to be a formidable political force. 

Make no mistake, the billionaire class they serve has mimicked this success e.g. the Mercer family with Parler. And that was used in the Insurrection.  People like the Mercers know they can manipulate rightwing groups like the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys. 

The big question is, was Qanon a part of this?  Was it a psy op?  And if so, was it done to smear conspiracy theories in general?

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

I don't agree the window has shifted Left.

I already spoke about the MSM on one hand.

When you get to things like Cable, what do you have: MSNBC as your doctrinare "liberal" channel?

But then you have Fox, Newsmax and OAN, who get about double their ratings. 

 

The left?

 

This is how the WaPo frames defense spending: 

 MAGA House members’ defense cuts encourage America’s enemies

By Jennifer Rubin-WaPo 

Columnist|Follow

January 9, 2023 at 7:45 a.m. EST

In his furious wheeling and dealing to obtain power, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) could well have made promises to the most radical members that he cannot deliver or has no intention of acting on. A cynical speaker and cynical MAGA dissidents may be conning each other as part of their performance politics to impress the base. But this goes beyond partisan intrigue. In the case of defense spending, even an empty promise may have serious national security ramifications.

---30---

Egads. If you want to cut defense spending, or even talk about it, you must be a MAGA nut. 

Worse than that!---you must want to "encourage America's enemies"! 

When it comes to globalism-imperialism-militarism, DC is a one-party town. 

If Trump had not been elected President, the US would probably still be mired down in Afghanistan.  

That does not make Trump a nice guy, or honorable. It is a perspective on how deeply entrenched globalism is in DC. 

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Benjamin Cole

[James DiEugenio]

That is a good catch Ben.

This is how crazy the Pentagon worship has become.

Edited January 13, 2023 by James DiEugenio