David Josephs Posted February 2, 2023 Author Share Posted February 2, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Tom Gram said: I second this emotion. Where did you get that supposed teenage Oswald photo? I believe it came off an auction site... but I will dig a little and see if I can pinpoint where I found it Too many files and my naming convention is not helping me find it... More than likely it was scanned at the archives and was in one of Armstrong's notebook which are no longer easy to search at Baylor. When I talk to John again, I will ask... I'm usually very good at naming files so I can find them later as well as where they came from, usually in the file name... but no such luck yet... sorry DJ Edited February 2, 2023 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 2, 2023 Author Share Posted February 2, 2023 Seems I found it in a google search.. and it was probably from an auction site... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 (edited) On 2/2/2023 at 2:09 PM, David Josephs said: You make a great point - being a runner will indeed change your physique. whether it changes your skeletal structure from sloped shoulders to not, I doubt it. Point blank Lance.... Do you see these as the same man side by side? Inset on left in uniform same as man in uniform on right? btw - the image at the bottom left of your collage is HARVEY at Beauregard Jr High 1954 Hi Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ulrik Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 2 hours ago, David Josephs said: Seems I found it in a google search.. and it was probably from an auction site... The guy in the photo seems to have an overbite, so perhaps Robert is a better candidate than Lee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 3, 2023 Author Share Posted February 3, 2023 57 minutes ago, Mark Ulrik said: The guy in the photo seems to have an overbite, so perhaps Robert is a better candidate than Lee. Pretty sure it's Lee, Mark. I have thousands of images of the man in my files, many are simply not available on the internet as they were never scanned from the archives ... Armstrong and Malcolm Blunt spent weeks there together every year for many, many years... thanks to Bart we have much more of Blunt's collection digitized.. And thanks to the old Baylor site and John himself, I was able to acquire many of them ... Also been thru the Weisberg directories... and I've still only scratched the surface... as well as thousands and thousands of files from the '17, '18 and '22 releases... Many repeat of course yet I still have over 62,000 lines in my spreadsheet of links to docs from these releases. 2 hours ago, Lance Payette said: Do they look quite startlingly different? Absolutely. Am I prepared to say they are two different people? No, but I will grant they look different. Take a look at the childhood montage I posted - in two of those photos, his shoulders seem quite sloped. (Look at the first image.) I would need at least three highly respected experts in this type of analysis to say "This is simply not the same man." Lance, all the early photos are of Lee except for the bottom left... and as I've mentioned... there is much much more than just photos to illustrate they were different men... Airplane mechanics do not suddenly become air traffic controllers on a CIA controlled base where the U2 was kept. btw - we also have the comparison of his marine dental records and the exhumation teeth which simply do not match at all... these are the top teeth, the marine records, the exhumation record and the bottom teeth.. Teeth 1, 16, 17 and 32 (wisdom teeth) were gone on LEE in the marines... they were there in 1981... Tooth #30 appears to be some sort of dental work... Sandy Larsen did a great write up here you can find... and below you can see how there also Lee's mother and the woman how was with Harvey.. Lee's mother never wore glasses and never was a nurse... The Marge with Harvey was a very strange bird indeed.... FWIW . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 3, 2023 Author Share Posted February 3, 2023 If you missed it on the first page... this is indeed Jenner and Rankin discussing the wholesale alteration and/or omission of facts related to the biography of Oswald because there are so many men who were with Lee in different places and different settings that is became absurd for Ely to continue. Check out CE1961 and 1962... the list of places Oswald supposedly was in the marines, and Allen Felde reporting where he was with Oswald... They don't match... which leads us back to ELY and Jenner and Rankin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Down Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 5 hours ago, David Josephs said: The Russians claimed they drugged him? Never heard that before... please cite a source or 3... Thx I cant find the source for this atm in my files. But the russians admitted they slipped stuff into his drink in order to get him to talk more in the hope he would slip up and reveal he was a U.S. agent or something. Does anyone else here have a link to the document in which the russians admit to spiking Oswalds drink? If the spiking was regular, it could in part explain changes to Oswalds appearance from the time he was in the marines to the time up to the JFK assassination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Doudna Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 5 hours ago, David Josephs said: Seems I found it in a google search.. and it was probably from an auction site... Of course without knowing provenance there's nothing to go on. But just first impression: a) it is not Lee Oswald b) it could be Robert Oswald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Doudna Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, David Josephs said: I'm sure, yes.... looks to me this boy is even bigger and heavier than the 23 year old Oswald.. Also please notice how LEE's shoulders slope down while Harvey's doesn't.. the same in virtually every photo... the 1959 passport photo is the LAST IMAGE OF LEE we know of... Been over this for many years.... and this is just the tip of the evidentiary record showing 2 Oswald's... Look up John Ely and how Jenner and Rankin need to "correct or omit" much of the work he did on Oswald's bio... DJ Again, I say the guy who is holding the rifle who does not look like Oswald isn't, that comes from a miscaptioned photo in Robert Oswald's book and is probably Vada Oswald's brother who was on that hunting outing with Robert and Lee that day. The book was probably ghostwritten, Robert gave the ghostwriters a box of old family photos to work with, somebody picked that one out and it got miscaptioned and slipped through whatever family readers doing the final check before publication. Edited February 3, 2023 by Greg Doudna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 3, 2023 Author Share Posted February 3, 2023 3 hours ago, Gerry Down said: I cant find the source for this atm in my files. But the russians admitted they slipped stuff into his drink in order to get him to talk more in the hope he would slip up and reveal he was a U.S. agent or something. Does anyone else here have a link to the document in which the russians admit to spiking Oswalds drink? If the spiking was regular, it could in part explain changes to Oswalds appearance from the time he was in the marines to the time up to the JFK assassination. Hope it was not "Passport to Assassination".... not a lot of truth offered in that book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bristow Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 I think there is an adjustment that needs to be made to the photo overlay comparisons of Harvey and Lee on page one. There is a subtle difference in the tilt of the head between Harvey and Lee that makes a very big difference if you try and align the overlays by using the ears. A very accurate way to determine the difference in head tilt from Harvey to Lee is to draw a line through the center of the eyes and see where it intersects the ears. Harvey's eyes sit a little above his ears while Lee's cross just below the top of the ear because Harvey's head is tilted up a little bit. Oswald's profile mugshot can be used to mark those two different points and show there is a six degree difference in the head tilts. It is easy to see in the position of his nostrils and the tip of his nose that Harvey has his head tilted up. Using the ears to align the photos will cause the two pairs of overlaid eyes to appear at two distinctly different levels. The same will be true for the nose and mouth. Personally I think the best alignment for comparison is the eyes. match the two images for pupillary distance and then lay the eyes over each other. Still we have to take into consideration that the eyes are the farthest from the camera, the lips are a little closer, and the nose even closer. As soon as you start to tilt up the eyes, lips and nose will diverge in an unequal manner. The most minor variation is that Harvey is looking slightly to his left. This results in the bridge of the nose being misaligned in the overlays when you use the eyes to align the photos. It will also cause the eyes to sit slightly off center laterally when compared to the ears. Aligning the overlay using the eyes will correct most of the differences. There will still be subtle differences and whether they are due to a difference in head tilt and head turn would require some fairly subtle modeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 3, 2023 Author Share Posted February 3, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Chris Bristow said: Aligning the overlay using the eyes will correct most of the differences. There will still be subtle differences and whether they are due to a difference in head tilt and head turn would require some fairly subtle modeling. I agree Chris, which is why I did it 2 ways on page 1... first aligned to the right ear, and below that aligned to the left eye, the 2 color one... the left eye overlay is almost impossible to differentiate front from back Oswald... but look at the rest of the overlay... mouth, nose and eyes do not align at all, and the size/shape of the head is different (and the body skeleton's are different as to how their shoulders fall...) Just for added backup, go to CE1961 and 1962... 1961 is where Oswald was throughout his military service, 1962 is ALLEN FELDE telling a much different story and why ELY found so many conflicts in his Military bio... And then the FBI goes out and finds the wrong FELDE (below) They go find ROBERT ALLEN FELDE when the man's name was ALLEN R FELDE... the NOTE in the report even admits they have the wrong FELDE... Good ole FBI . When they do finally find FELDE in JUNE 1964, we get CE1962 above. Edited February 3, 2023 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 (edited) On 2/2/2023 at 7:00 PM, David Josephs said: Lance, all the early photos are of Lee except for the bottom left... and as I've mentioned... there is much much more than just photos to illustrate they were different men... Airplane mechanics do not suddenly become air traffic controllers on a CIA controlled base where the U2 was kept. btw - we also have the comparison of his marine dental records and the exhumation teeth which simply do not match at all... these are the top teeth, the marine records, the exhumation record and the bottom teeth.. Teeth 1, 16, 17 and 32 (wisdom teeth) were gone on LEE in the marines... they were there in 1981... Tooth #30 appears to be some sort of dental work... Sandy Larsen did a great write up here you can find... and below you can see how there also Lee's mother and the woman how was with Harvey.. Lee's mother never wore glasses and never was a nurse... The Marge with Harvey was a very strange bird indeed.... FWIW Hi Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Down Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 12 hours ago, David Josephs said: Hope it was not "Passport to Assassination".... not a lot of truth offered in that book Here is the source: SOURCE: Page 6 of this PDF: https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10336-10032.pdf Plus its here too at 25 minutes in on the documentary: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 4, 2023 Author Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) Stories told by Russians without sources.... this was something just sent to Gunn.. not generated by the ARRB... There is a difference... And the comments tell the whole story... please go away btw - Me and Lee is by Judy Baker... close but no cigar @billkeon880 4 years ago For those conspiracy buffs doubting this documentary please read Oswald’s Tale by Norman Mailer and Me and Lee by Pricilla Johnson as well as Bugliosi’s book. All independently corroborate each other. Edited February 4, 2023 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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