Gerry Down Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 19 minutes ago, David Josephs said: Stories told by Russians without sources.... this was something just sent to Gunn.. not generated by the ARRB... There is a difference... The Russians are the source. Why would they falsely self incriminate themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Cohen Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 On 2/2/2023 at 5:31 PM, David Josephs said: Seems I found it in a google search.. and it was probably from an auction site... OK, so? How does this in any way indicate the photo in question is actually of Lee Oswald? It certainly does zero to advance the absolutely absurd theory that there were multiple Lees and multiple Marguerites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bristow Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 14 hours ago, David Josephs said: I agree Chris, which is why I did it 2 ways on page 1... first aligned to the right ear, and below that aligned to the left eye, the 2 color one... the left eye overlay is almost impossible to differentiate front from back Oswald... but look at the rest of the overlay... mouth, nose and eyes do not align at all, and the size/shape of the head is different (and the body skeleton's are different as to how their shoulders fall...) Just for added backup, go to CE1961 and 1962... 1961 is where Oswald was throughout his military service, 1962 is ALLEN FELDE telling a much different story and why ELY found so many conflicts in his Military bio... And then the FBI goes out and finds the wrong FELDE (below) They go find ROBERT ALLEN FELDE when the man's name was ALLEN R FELDE... the NOTE in the report even admits they have the wrong FELDE... Good ole FBI . When they do finally find FELDE in JUNE 1964, we get CE1962 above. Here is a comp based on the photos from the second overlay. I rotated one of them a single degree. The photo download on the left turned out to be seriously distorted. Compared to the second copy on the far right it is obviously shrunken in the vertical but the pupillary distances match. It is also slightly magnified in the central area. The image on the right is very good match for Oswald's mug shot. Everything is nearly a perfect match except the lips. I think that difference could be Oswald raising his lower lip, possibly due to stress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 4, 2023 Author Share Posted February 4, 2023 Chris, This is a photo of the same man... there is no LEE OSWALD Marine induction photo, only Harvey's. Try the same thing with the 1959 passport image... THAT is Lee... And if you can't believe your own eyes that these two men are simply not the same so be it... I'm not here to convince anyone of anything... just post the info and y'all can come to your own conclusions... I refuse to argue with anyone else about the overwhelming amount of evidence which illustrates the existence of 2 different people. It's as if y'all refuse to acknowledge what the CIA was trying to do... the only info we were getting from Russia was thru the Gehlen/Dulles National Socialist spy network we "adopted" after the war... and elsewhere in the world where they had bugs and taps going on Russia entities. Read "Wilderness of Mirrors"... story of Angleton and William Harvey... The CIA didn't just decide to take 1954 - 1963 off, they were killing people all around the world... leaders of countries FFS. Important to put oneself into a 1963 Cold War mindset.. not easy to do but necessary to understand what was going on here. https://www.abebooks.com/Wilderness-Mirrors-Intrigue-Deception-Secrets-Destroyed/30947081664/bd?ref_=ps_nb_ggl_US_Shopp_Textbook&cm_mmc=ggl-_-US_Shopp_Textbook-_-product_id=COM9781585748242USED-_-keyword=&gclid=Cj0KCQiAofieBhDXARIsAHTTldqC-tCDYc-5BAdZw8pAfgKT5xNIrreG-tvAB-crsqkIUB3PZ0fPcB0aAj7nEALw_wcB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bristow Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 5 hours ago, David Josephs said: Chris, This is a photo of the same man... there is no LEE OSWALD Marine induction photo, only Harvey's. Try the same thing with the 1959 passport image... THAT is Lee... And if you can't believe your own eyes that these two men are simply not the same so be it... I'm not here to convince anyone of anything... just post the info and y'all can come to your own conclusions... I refuse to argue with anyone else about the overwhelming amount of evidence which illustrates the existence of 2 different people. It's as if y'all refuse to acknowledge what the CIA was trying to do... the only info we were getting from Russia was thru the Gehlen/Dulles National Socialist spy network we "adopted" after the war... and elsewhere in the world where they had bugs and taps going on Russia entities. Read "Wilderness of Mirrors"... story of Angleton and William Harvey... The CIA didn't just decide to take 1954 - 1963 off, they were killing people all around the world... leaders of countries FFS. Important to put oneself into a 1963 Cold War mindset.. not easy to do but necessary to understand what was going on here. https://www.abebooks.com/Wilderness-Mirrors-Intrigue-Deception-Secrets-Destroyed/30947081664/bd?ref_=ps_nb_ggl_US_Shopp_Textbook&cm_mmc=ggl-_-US_Shopp_Textbook-_-product_id=COM9781585748242USED-_-keyword=&gclid=Cj0KCQiAofieBhDXARIsAHTTldqC-tCDYc-5BAdZw8pAfgKT5xNIrreG-tvAB-crsqkIUB3PZ0fPcB0aAj7nEALw_wcB If I mixed up Harvey and Lee it was not an expression of my opinion, just a mistake. I really don't have an opinion on the issue of whether there was a Harvey and a Lee. I like to examine each issues separately and if I do come to a conclusion it is only about that particular set of photos In examining those two sets of photos I cannot find any mismatching measurements. There are about 20 photos of Oswald out there and I've measured all of them. In the few photos where he's facing directly toward the camera you can measure a very subtle difference in his pupillary distance. His right eye sits 1 mm farther out from the bridge of his nose than his left eye does. Assuming he has a pupillary distance of approximately 67 mm, his monocular pupillary distance would be 34 mm in the right and 33 mm in the left. Oswald's mugshots and Marine photos are the ones where he's generally facing straightforward. Those are all consistent with that 1 mm difference. If Oswald had a twin that twin may have the same small difference. I will measure some photos of twins online and see if that holds true. if true it would support the idea that the two people are twins. Measuring a 1 mm difference in the pupillary distance is common practice when making eyeglasses. Sometimes doctors will add a pupillary distance to their prescription and they will even split a millimeter in half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 4, 2023 Author Share Posted February 4, 2023 So you simply dismiss the rest of the analysis... sloping shoulders, different size heads, aircraft mechanic doing air traffic controller work at a U-2 base and Jenner/Rankin needing to seriously change the information found out by ELY... We don't exit in a vacuum... Evidence relates to each other like a spider's web.. The 20 year old 5'10" 165lb Lee dies a 24 year old 5'8" 135lb man... ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Cohen Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 1 hour ago, David Josephs said: So you simply dismiss the rest of the analysis... sloping shoulders, different size heads, aircraft mechanic doing air traffic controller work at a U-2 base and Jenner/Rankin needing to seriously change the information found out by ELY... We don't exit in a vacuum... Evidence relates to each other like a spider's web.. And as usual your "evidence" adds up to a whole lot of nothing, much like the Harvey and Lee theory itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 20 hours ago, Chris Bristow said: Chris, How do you know the photo on the left is distorted? (BTW, the one on the right looks like a drawing to me.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 3 hours ago, David Josephs said: The 20 year old 5'10" 165lb Lee dies a 24 year old 5'8" 135lb man... ok David, You and I both know that there's a ton of evidence supporting the H&L theory. Photo comparison is a tougher sell because there aren't a lot of clear, front-view photographs of adult LEE to compare to HARVEY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bristow Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: Chris, How do you know the photo on the left is distorted? (BTW, the one on the right looks like a drawing to me.) The two versions of the photo online are what we see in my comparison. with the pupillary distances matched you can see the left image is much smaller as their chins levels show. So one of them is definitely distorted. The version on the right matches whoever is in the mugshot extremely well. So if you stretch the image on the left in the vertical only it becomes the same as the image on the right which is an almost perfect match to the mug shot. The fact that stretching the image causes the ear size and chin angles and the nose all to line up so well leads to my assumption that the left image is the distorted one. Edited February 5, 2023 by Chris Bristow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 2 hours ago, Chris Bristow said: The fact that stretching the image causes the ear size and chin angles and the nose all to line up so well leads to my assumption that the left image is the distorted one. Thanks Chris. I'm pretty sure that the one on the left is a drawing. I'm also pretty sure that the one on the left and one on the right are from the same source. They are almost identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 5, 2023 Author Share Posted February 5, 2023 29 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: Thanks Chris. I'm pretty sure that the one on the left is a drawing. I'm also pretty sure that the one on the left and one on the right are from the same source. They are almost identical. Maybe I didn't express myself adequately... both the Marine photo and the center photo are of HARVEY OSWALD... we do not have Lee's induction photo... they should match. I asked Chris to use the last known photo of Lee Oswald, the 1959 passport photo and do the comparison... When you place Lee over Harvey's face you get this. these are 2 different people. match the head size and the ears wont match.. line the eyes up and the rest of the face is as off as this image anchored on his right ear... I see I'm a few pixels off to the left but that doesn't change the facial features not matching, or the sloping shoulders of Lee matching the straighter physique of Harvey... Here's the photo he's trying to use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bristow Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 1 hour ago, David Josephs said: Maybe I didn't express myself adequately... both the Marine photo and the center photo are of HARVEY OSWALD... we do not have Lee's induction photo... they should match. I asked Chris to use the last known photo of Lee Oswald, the 1959 passport photo and do the comparison... When you place Lee over Harvey's face you get this. these are 2 different people. match the head size and the ears wont match.. line the eyes up and the rest of the face is as off as this image anchored on his right ear... I see I'm a few pixels off to the left but that doesn't change the facial features not matching, or the sloping shoulders of Lee matching the straighter physique of Harvey... Here's the photo he's trying to use In my first post I felt matching the ears in the passport comp would give a false result by shifting eyes/nose/mouth unrealistically. You responded: "I agree Chris, which is why I did it 2 ways on page 1... first aligned to the right ear, and below that aligned to the left eye, the 2 color one... the left eye overlay is almost impossible to differentiate front from back Oswald... but look at the rest of the overlay...mouth, nose and eyes do not align at all, and the size/shape of the head is different (and the body skeleton's are different as to how their shoulders fall...)" I thought you were agreeing at least partially and pointing to your second example which eliminated any ear questions by matching the left eye. That 2nd overlay titled " Harvey superimposed over Lee" is the famous 1/22 mugshot and the Marine induction photo.That is why my last comparison used them. The induction photo having that scratch on the film across the nose and the beat up mugshot face made them easy to identify. I will do a comp of the passport and other photo. If both eyes can be fully matched then you can be assured that the rotation and sizing are near perfect. Head turn or tilting up/down will still distort the comparison but I don't think there is any way around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Bojczuk Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Jonathan Cohen writes: Quote And as usual your [David Josephs'] "evidence" adds up to a whole lot of nothing, much like the Harvey and Lee theory itself. I particularly enjoyed David's unintentionally hilarious remark about "sloping shoulders, different size heads". He found photographs of Oswald taken at different times, from different angles, while Oswald was standing in different poses and wearing different clothes. Then he drew lines to show that Oswald's shoulders were sloping at different angles in some of those photos. Hey presto! That means the photos were of two different people! [Slaps forehead.] Even funnier is David's evidence for "different size heads". Look at the photo of Oswald in front of a size chart, in which the horizontal lines are one inch apart. The distance between the top of Oswald's head and the bottom of his chin is 13 inches. This proves that his head is 13 inches tall! But in other photos, Oswald's head, like most people's heads, is noticeably less than 13 inches tall. Therefore the photo of Oswald with a 13-inch head must show a second Oswald! [Slaps forehead again.] This is the sort of laughably flimsy evidence that no-one apart from the true believer would take seriously. But it's good enough for David. Is it any wonder that some people equate critics of the lone-nut idea with those who believe in alien abduction stories or that the moon landings didn't happen? Incidentally, that old 'Harvey and Lee' staple, the notion that Oswald had a 13-inch head, has a perfectly plausible explanation: https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1412-the-13-inch-head-explained-for-sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 14 minutes ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said: I particularly enjoyed David's unintentionally hilarious remark about "sloping shoulders, different size heads". He found photographs of Oswald taken at different times, from different angles, while Oswald was standing in different poses and wearing different clothes. Then he drew lines to show that Oswald's shoulders were sloping at different angles in some of those photos. Hey presto! That means the photos were of two different people! [Slaps forehead.] Even funnier is David's evidence for "different size heads". Look at the photo of Oswald in front of a size chart, in which the horizontal lines are one inch apart. The distance between the top of Oswald's head and the bottom of his chin is 13 inches. This proves that his head is 13 inches tall! But in other photos, Oswald's head, like most people's heads, is noticeably less than 13 inches tall. Therefore the photo of Oswald with a 13-inch head must show a second Oswald! [Slaps forehead again.] This is the sort of laughably flimsy evidence that no-one apart from the true believer would take seriously. But it's good enough for David. Is it any wonder that some people equate critics of the lone-nut idea with those who believe in alien abduction stories or that the moon landings didn't happen? Incidentally, that old 'Harvey and Lee' staple, the notion that Oswald had a 13-inch head, has a perfectly plausible explanation: https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1412-the-13-inch-head-explained-for-sandy Jeremy, Mocking a forum member's work violates forum rules. Kindly remove those remarks from your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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