Greg Doudna Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 "The Oswald rifle scope installation at the Irving Sport Shop of Monday, November 11, 1963" https://www.scrollery.com/?p=1485 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Down Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Looking forward to digging in to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) Greg, I hope you don't mind a question or two.... most importantly - Do you have a readable version of the ticket? Holmes claimed they had found the Postal Mail Order stub and THAT was how they found the rifle... but there is no stub so there is no evidence, just Holmes' word. They wrote the name "Oswld" on a bus manifest to "prove" he had taken a certain bus in Mexico except the clerks there admitted adding it to the manifest after the fact... again, useless, forged evidence for the purpose of incriminating Oswald.... How do we show he has a rifle after the fact - a day after he is killed, and 3 days after the JFK assassination when all weekend he is reading about our little Oswald... The job ticket was handwritten in pencil and authenticated by Dial Ryder as his handwriting. The ticket had no date but was a writeup of a $6.00 total charge for two itemized subcharges: $4.50 for drill-and-tapping of a rifle scope installation plus $1.50 for boresighting. The kind of rifle or scope was not stated. The customer’s name was “Oswald”, no further information. The stub at the bottom of the numbered job ticket had not been torn off and given to the customer as a claim for later pickup. There was no contact information for the customer such as a phone number. Ryder told Horton he had done the job of that ticket, and that ticket was the only record of that job. He told Horton what he remembered of the customer and the rifle (taken up below). --- Against this, the Warren Commission’s final Report rejected the evidence of the Oswald job ticket, the testimony of Dial Ryder that that was a real customer job which he had personally done, and the Furniture Mart witnesses who placed Oswald as looking for a gunsmith and referred to the Sport Shop that day. The Warren Commission insinuated in its final report that Dial Ryder fabricated the job ticket, for which there is no evidence or reasonability. Yes there is Greg... the ticket retained the claim portion, never given to the customer... the "evidence or reasonability" is due in part to this fact... as well as the fact there was no other record when we both know most businesses keep some sort of internal record of sales beyond a claim ticket... and if they didn't keep any other record of sales, the fact the ticket was net separated so the customer can then claim his property... and Ms. BERRY, on the very next pager of reports, says she doesn't remember anything like Dial's story from that day. A number of people created stories which allowed them to gain a little fame ... some more than others (Judy Vary Baker comes to mind) and if Oswald was sticking around and the man pockets the cash, as you hypothesize, why write a claim check at all? btw - I'm still reading but do you or do you not have this ticket stub to show? I still have not come across a link to an image... Mr. RYDER. Well, actually, all it had on it was drill and tapping; it said drill and tap and a price of $4.50 On the one hand the story was accurate that Oswald had a rifle sighted at that shop. After all the contrary evidence you write in part 2, how do you come to that conclusion? Again, my friend... you are aware the FBI created evidence after the fact related to the rifle and getting it into Oswald's possession? Had you not considered this was part of that bogus evidence? The Warren Commission erred in rejecting Lee and Marina at the Furniture Mart and Irving Sport Shop. It happened, on Nov 11, 1963. I see you did not consider that possibility in the least. FBI agent DOLAN lies about the microfilm from Sat night/Sun morning at Klein's - which is the basis for all the evidence from Klein's. Did you offer the TAG in part 1? Have you seen this tag yourself? I ask because I have and I have a copy of it. But if you have a better version where you can see what Dial claims he wrote on it more clearly... please post it. If not, I will post what I have and you can decide for yourself what you think it says... I enjoyed your essay yet knowing what I know about the FBI and that rifle it is much more likely the ticket was created after the fact... how I know? We will never see any other claim tickets from Irving; was this a book, numbered in order as there is no date on my copy? Were they just randomly numbered and pulled from a drawer? So this man who barely drives puts his family in the car and speeds off as soon as Ruth leaves, not knowing when she'll return, but is willing to wait for the work to be done with this other scope he did not buy... and despite there being evidence of multiple sightings of Ozzie and family all thru south Texas (Alice in Wonderland) when we know he was elsewhere, you can conclude without a doubt this was our Oswald and Family... on the 11th. Below this image please find an excerpt from Oswald in Aliceland... you can probably find the pdf with a search. I believe you need to consider these other sightings and the activities of the FBI in Nov 1963 before you reach the conclusion you do about a man and his family who had been impersonated repeatedly in the months prior to the assassination... From "Oswald in Aliceland" Perhaps the most well-known sighting involving an Oswald family occurred at the Furniture Mart in Irving on November 6 or 7. Edith Whitworth and her friend, Gertrude Hunter, claim that Oswald, Marina, and two girls matching the ages of Rachel and June came in to inquire about a plunger for Oswald's rifle, apparently because of a sign above the door which said *Gun Shop.* When Whitworth commented on the two little girls, this *Oswald* said that he would have rather had a boy. He also said that the infant had been born on October 20. After he asked to see some bedroom furniture, Whitworth showed the family a set. But the wife maintained an inexplicable silence the entire time she was in the store. After the assassination, the women concluded that her silence was because she was not able to speak English. This *Oswald* drove his family away from the store in a 1956 or 1957 two-tone Ford, blue and white. (34 -- Researcher Carol Hewett claims she has identified a third vehicle owned by the Paines which matches this description and apparently is preparing an article for Probe.) The Warren Commission, of course, attempted to resolve the Furniture Mart sighting by arranging for a face-to-face meeting of Whitworth and Hunter with Marina and her children in Dallas on July 24, 1964. But even at the face-to-face meeting, Whitworth and Hunter stubbornly continued to insist that Marina and her two children had been in the store with her late husband in early November, while Marina continued to insist that she had never been in the furniture mart and had never seen the two women before in her life. (35) At least in this case, since Whitworth and Hunter specifically remembered that the children were girls and remembered discussing that fact with this particular Oswald, the FBI apparently was forced to set aside its usual maddening lack of specificity with respect to the sex of the children when preparing its memoranda on the furniture mart incident. A second false sighting in Irving involved a grocer named Leonard Hutchinson, who claimed that a *Harvey Oswald* tried to cash a two-party check for $189 in his store on November 8 when the real Oswald could not have been there. Harvey apparently had been in Hutchinson's store several times before, including one time when he was accompanied by a young woman who spoke to him in a foreign language. (36) Other Oswalds in Early October Just to heap a few extra layers of confusion on top of all of this, consider now that there appears to be an inordinate number of other Oswald sightings during this early October period upon which we have been focusing. To wit: • An apparent Oswald lookalike checks into the South Cliff Motel in Dallas on a Friday in early October, which certainly could have been the 4th. This Oswald drove up in a white 1955 or 1956 car, and ended up staying through Saturday night. (37) • Back in New Orleans at the Hotel LaSalle, several hotel employees apparently realized on the evening of the assassination that Oswald looked familiar. The manager is then said to have pulled a registration card dated for a Lee Harvey Oswald, dated October 3, 1963, which indicated a charge of $5 for a period of only two or three hours that day. (38) • Yet another report indicates that an Oswald may have stayed at the Sands Motel in Laredo on October 3. (39) • Somewhere around October 1, someone using the last name of Oswald turns up at the Hollywood Bar in El Paso, apparently in the company of a Mexican girl from Juarez and another unidentified man. This Oswald approaches another bar patron named Ross Johns, offers to sell him drugs, and tells him he has plenty of contacts in Mexico who can get Johns anything he wants. (40) • In late September or early October, a man who looked like Oswald and may have been using the name, *Lee Oswald,* approached personnel advisor Evelyn Sheppard at the Continental Oil Company in Houston seeking an employment interview. He told Sheppard that he had just returned from Mexico * where he had gone with a friend * and that they had been unsuccessful in their efforts to get directly from Mexico to Cuba. (41) • On October 4 at Ruby's Carousel Club, Attorney Caroll Jarnagin overhears a conversation between Jack Ruby and a man he later identified as Oswald. Oswald was telling Ruby he was going by the name *O. H. Lee*. Jarnagin said Ruby and Oswald were discussing a plot to kill Governor Connally and potential future plans to eliminate Bobby Kennedy. (42) • On October 4, a man named J. G. Hardin whose car has broken down catches a ride from Richland, TX to Dallas with a man he later believes was Oswald in a beat-up 1953 Ford. (43) • Sometime during early October, Mrs. Lovell Penn heard shooting on her property outside of Dallas. After chasing away three men, one of whom she later said could have been Oswald, she found a 6.5 mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle shell where they had been target shooting. (44) • A "Lee Oswald" shows up at gunrunner Robert Ray McKeown's home in Bay Cliff, Texas sometime in late September or early October wanting to buy high-powered rifles with scopes, according to both McKeown and his friend, Sam Neill. (45) (37) Garrison Letter dated November 17, 1967 re motel operator Earl Edwards. (38) FBI 89-69-167. (39) FBI 89-67-115. (40) FBI 62-109060-1640 (41) FBI 105-1291-298 (42) Crossfire, pp. 409-410. (43) FBI 62-109060-1373 and 62-109060-624. (44) Crossfire, p. 545 (45) Ibid., p. 396; The Man Who Knew Too Much, Dick Russell, Carroll and Graf, 1992, p. 431-32 Edited February 7, 2023 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Zartman Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 36 minutes ago, David Josephs said: Leonard Hutchinson, who claimed that a *Harvey Oswald* tried to cash a two-party check for $189 in his store on November 8 when the real Oswald could not have been there. I'm sure that it's just a funny coincidence that Oswald apparently had a total of $183.87 in cash on the morning of November 22. I wonder if they found $5.13 at the Tippit scene? 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, Denny Zartman said: I'm sure that it's just a funny coincidence that Oswald apparently had a total of $183.87 in cash on the morning of November 22. I wonder if they found $5.13 at the Tippit scene? 🤔 Hi Denny, The evidence (inventory sheets) only shows $13.87... the claimed $170 in a wallet in Irving was not part of the evidence... Neither is the arrest wallet, or the Tippit wallet... All we have in evidence is a red wallet and Brown wallet "with Marine group photo" - both from Irving... What happened to the wallet Bentley supposedly pulls from him in the car back to the station? The three photos are of Oswald as a Marine, Marina and June... CE1986 Wonder why D71 is not listed in the FBI's inventory of evidence broken down by # and starting letter (A, B, C, D) Wallet is B1 while that ID is D71... . Sorry, this is the biggest image of this I have Caption for this wallet and the below contents says they are from a wallet found at Oswald's home... You will not find mention of that arrest wallet anywhere.. How come? . This The Marine group photo - never mentioned as part of the wallet contents. LEE OSWALD cards with correct dates and names... No HIDELL. Yet another wallet found at "Oswald's home"... they don't get more specific than that sadly. All of these images are from the Dallas DPD/JFK archives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Well, here is the REPAIR TAG ticket I have in any case... if Greg can post something more legible, like where it says what Ryder claims it says.. that would be great... this is what the FBI calls "Evidence". Hmmm... now were else does his name and little else appears on FBI-related evidence that even gets disavowed by the FBI itself...? Again, if anyone can post Evidence which cannot be so easily shown for the "batpoo" it really is, and how the FBI so willingly accepts it until it is shortly proven fake or phony and they make no excuse for accepting it in the first place yet summarily drop it as evidence at all.... please do. WCR: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Doudna Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Gerry Down said: Looking forward to digging in to this. Thanks Gerry. I have a cameo appearance of you as well as Jean Paul Ceulemans and Lance Payette in a section of the paper near the end, credited for a recent discussion suggesting possible use of the word "plunger" with reference to a scope installation, which I thought was an advance in making better sense of that detail of the Furniture Mart episode. Edited February 7, 2023 by Greg Doudna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Doudna Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, David Josephs said: Greg, I hope you don't mind a question or two.... most importantly - Do you have a readable version of the ticket? No unfortunately I don't. 15 hours ago, David Josephs said: I hope you don't mind a question or two.... most importantly - Do you have a readable version of the ticket? Holmes claimed they had found the Postal Mail Order stub and THAT was how they found the rifle... but there is no stub so there is no evidence, just Holmes' word. They wrote the name "Oswld" on a bus manifest to "prove" he had taken a certain bus in Mexico except the clerks there admitted adding it to the manifest after the fact... again, useless, forged evidence for the purpose of incriminating Oswald.... How do we show he has a rifle after the fact - a day after he is killed, and 3 days after the JFK assassination when all weekend he is reading about our little Oswald... There's more to it than that David. Marina said he had the rifle. Photos of him with the rifle. Marguerite saw Marina with a photo of Oswald with a rifle and encouraged hiding and Marina's destruction of that photo on Sat Nov 23. Paperwork at Klein's, Jeanne DeMohrenschildt. 15 hours ago, David Josephs said: After all the contrary evidence you write in part 2, how do you come to that conclusion? Again, my friend... you are aware the FBI created evidence after the fact related to the rifle and getting it into Oswald's possession? Had you not considered this was part of that bogus evidence? I doubt the Klein's paperwork or the Oswald mail order or the PO money order was fabricated by the FBI. 15 hours ago, David Josephs said: I enjoyed your essay yet knowing what I know about the FBI and that rifle it is much more likely the ticket was created after the fact... how I know? We will never see any other claim tickets from Irving; was this a book, numbered in order as there is no date on my copy? Were they just randomly numbered and pulled from a drawer? The way owner Greener explained it, although the tags were numbered the numbering was meaningless for establishing date or anything because they were tossed loose in one container then one would be pulled out at random by the person at the counter at writeup. Edited February 8, 2023 by Greg Doudna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Zartman Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 8 hours ago, David Josephs said: Yet another wallet found at "Oswald's home"... they don't get more specific than that sadly. Ol' "Four Wallets" Oswald. Why would anyone suspect Oswald was ever being impersonated? He was just your everyday average guy with four wallets. I didn't know the Irving wallet was the only one surviving in evidence. Of course they don't want to have to explain more than one wallet, much less four. It's amazing to me that anyone can take even a casual look at stuff like this and not think something suspicious was going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Cohen Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 33 minutes ago, Denny Zartman said: It's amazing to me that anyone can take even a casual look at stuff like this and not think something suspicious was going on. I trust you recognize that there's a pretty big difference between "something suspicious" going on and believing in the absolutely ridiculous theory that there were each two different Lee and Marguerite Oswalds running amok all over the United States for more than a decade ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Down Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 4 hours ago, Greg Doudna said: Thanks Gerry. I have a cameo appearance of you as well as Jean Paul Ceulemans and Lance Payette in a section of the paper near the end, credited for a recent discussion suggesting possible use of the word "plunger" with reference to a scope installation, which I thought was an advance in making better sense of that detail of the Furniture Mart episode. Thanks for the mention 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 13 hours ago, Greg Doudna said: I doubt the Klein's paperwork or the Oswald mail order or the PO money order was fabricated by the FBI. Why's that Greg... Love to see the research and your paper on the rifle and Klein's situation... I've written a few on the subject and did presentations in Dallas and SF on the topic... but hey, if you have info I didn't, love to see it. And I posted the Repair Tag above... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 12 hours ago, Denny Zartman said: Ol' "Four Wallets" Oswald. Why would anyone suspect Oswald was ever being impersonated? He was just your everyday average guy with four wallets. I didn't know the Irving wallet was the only one surviving in evidence. Of course they don't want to have to explain more than one wallet, much less four. It's amazing to me that anyone can take even a casual look at stuff like this and not think something suspicious was going on. I think there are actually 5 now... the 2 in evidence, arrest wallet, Tippit wallet, and the studded wallet in the photo I posted... Been working with Armstrong on when exactly the HIDELL IDs are entered into evidence and how... The D71 ID listing on the FBI inventory and is missing from their Wallet inventory as of the 23rd, but listed in BOOKOUT's report of the 25th with only 1 of the IDs listed on Clements' FBI report of the 23rd (CE1990-91). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Zartman Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 You really know your stuff @David Josephs, thanks for all your hard work and for sharing it here with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 13 hours ago, Greg Doudna said: Photos of him with the rifle. You are kidding, right? Now you're going to start telling us the backyard photos are genuine? Seems the forest has obstructed your view of the trees... Marina is such a reliable witness too... She was asked how the camera worked... she testifies this is the first time ever working a camera and she held it to her face to take photos... and remembers little else.. The way the camera worked she'd need to hold it at her chest, look down, hold it absolutely still and hit the shutter... Below, is what she would have seen... and these details escape her.. as does her taking more than 1 photo... "But I must have". 3 times to produce 2 negatives of which 1 is lost at the DPD. Are you truly willing to accept anything the FBI throws up on the wall hoping it sticks, as authentic evidence? How can you defend them here of all places? So, you'll start defending the Silly Bullet Theory soon.... and next you'll tell us there were no shots from the front. Do it up Greg... show us all how wrong we are these past 40 years for showing the DPD/FBI/CIA evidence for what it was. We have Harry Holmes' story, and the "finding" of the Money order in Virginia, and this report as well... How many different stories can there be for finding one Money Order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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