Fred's Flim-Flam Written by Matt Douthit at Kennedys & King with an Afterword by James DiEugenio- powerful!

[Pat Speer]

56 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Replaying my earlier comment and request from yesterday (maybe Pat didn't see it)....

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Please post something verifying that John Connally ever said such a thing about the first shot that was fired. Because I never once heard him say (or even vaguely imply) any such thing.

Connally always said he heard the impact of Kennedy getting hit with the head shot, yes. But shot #1? I don't think so.

I think you're mixing up your "heard the impact" shots, Pat.

 

You're right, in that he never said he heard the impact of the shot. But from the very first he said he knew Kennedy was hit by the shot. While I was incorrect in assuming he meant by this that he heard something, we have strong reason to believe he heard a sound or saw a movement from Kennedy to indicate Kennedy had been hit, before he himself was hit. 

(11-27-63 televised interview with Martin Agronsky, transcript printed in the 11-28-63 New York Times.) ”we had just turned the corner, we heard a shot; I turned to my left—I was sitting in the jump seat. I turned to my left to look in the back seat—the President had slumped. He had said nothing. Almost simultaneously, as I turned, I was hit and I knew I had been hit badly. I knew the President had been hit and I said, “My God, they are going to kill us all.”

 (12-13-63 FBI report on a 12-11 interview, CD188, p. 3-5) “Governor Connally stated “First sense or realization of anything unusual I became conscious of a shot or what sounded like a gunshot. I knew it came from my right rear. I instinctively turned to my right to look back and as I did so I sensed more than I saw that President Kennedy was hit."

As you can see, moreover, Connally insisted that these were his impressions--his conclusions--and not those of his wife. It was only years later, after people such as yourself couldn't get around the fact Connally felt certain he was not hit by the first shot, that they started claiming the first shot missed, and that everyone who said JFK was hit by the first shot or reacted to the first shot must have been delusional. 

To believe Connally and still have their beloved SBT they had to throw the statements of dozens of others in the trash. And all to perpetuate a hoax no one should have fallen for in the first place. 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Pat Speer

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

You're right, in that he [John Connally] never said he heard the impact of the shot. But from the very first he said he knew Kennedy was hit by the shot. While I was incorrect in assuming he meant by this that he heard something, we have strong reason to believe he heard a sound or saw a movement from Kennedy to indicate Kennedy had been hit, before he himself was hit. 

Thank you for forthrightly clearing that up, Pat. I appreciate it.

But, despite what Governor Connally "sensed" (but didn't SEE, remember), the Single-Bullet Theory is most certainly not the "hoax" that Pat Speer believes it to be.

The following statement is one I make with all sincerity...

When ALL the evidence is considered (including the large number of "SBT"-like things that exist surrounding the wounding of President Kennedy and Governor Connally), it would truly be a miracle if the SBT were NOT true.

Edited February 15, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Matthew Koch]

My favorite part of Nellie Connally's book was when she said this: 

(Next to the x) 

[Matthew Koch]

7 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

The Zapruder film shows Connally and JFK are hit at the same time.

But cos Connally has his back to JFK, Connally didn't realize that the first shot he heard actually missed JFK.

Give this documentary a watch, Dr Robert Shaw at 19:15 goes into the "delayed reaction" and cites the Governor and his Wife's testimony to support his belief that there was no delayed reaction. 

 

[Gerry Down]

34 minutes ago, Matthew Koch said:

Give this documentary a watch, Dr Robert Shaw at 19:15 goes into the "delayed reaction" and cites the Governor and his Wife's testimony to support his belief that there was no delayed reaction. 

 

Thanks.

The idea of a delayed reaction is pure nonsense. JFK and Connally were both shot at z224.

Nellie Connally is a poor witness. John said he said "no no no" and "they're going to kill us all" after he had been shot. Nellie says her husband was shot in between her husband saying "no no no" and "they're going to kill us all". 

It's all there on Pat Speers website where he lists out all of Nellies testimony over the years.

Why John never took her aside and said "Nellie, I was shot before I said no no no, not after" i'll never know and maybe backs up DVPs assertion that John just went along with his wife.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Gerry Down

[Gerry Down]

2 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

You're right, in that he never said he heard the impact of the shot. But from the very first he said he knew Kennedy was hit by the shot. While I was incorrect in assuming he meant by this that he heard something, we have strong reason to believe he heard a sound or saw a movement from Kennedy to indicate Kennedy had been hit, before he himself was hit. 

(11-27-63 televised interview with Martin Agronsky, transcript printed in the 11-28-63 New York Times.) ”we had just turned the corner, we heard a shot; I turned to my left—I was sitting in the jump seat. I turned to my left to look in the back seat—the President had slumped. He had said nothing. Almost simultaneously, as I turned, I was hit and I knew I had been hit badly. I knew the President had been hit and I said, “My God, they are going to kill us all.”

 (12-13-63 FBI report on a 12-11 interview, CD188, p. 3-5) “Governor Connally stated “First sense or realization of anything unusual I became conscious of a shot or what sounded like a gunshot. I knew it came from my right rear. I instinctively turned to my right to look back and as I did so I sensed more than I saw that President Kennedy was hit."

As you can see, moreover, Connally insisted that these were his impressions--his conclusions--and not those of his wife. It was only years later, after people such as yourself couldn't get around the fact Connally felt certain he was not hit by the first shot, that they started claiming the first shot missed, and that everyone who said JFK was hit by the first shot or reacted to the first shot must have been delusional. 

To believe Connally and still have their beloved SBT they had to throw the statements of dozens of others in the trash. And all to perpetuate a hoax no one should have fallen for in the first place. 

 

Glen Bennett seems to back up Connallys account. Check out the thread I did on him.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Gerry Down

[David Von Pein]

[Matthew Koch]

12 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

Thanks.

The idea of a delayed reaction is pure nonsense. JFK and Connally were both shot at z224.

Nellie Connally is a poor witness. John said he said "no no no" and "they're going to kill us all" after he had been shot. Nellie says her husband was shot in between her husband saying "no no no" and "they're going to kill us all". 

It's all there on Pat Speers website where he lists out all of Nellies testimony over the years.

Why John never took her aside and said "Nellie, I was shot before I said no no no, not after" i'll never know and maybe backs up DVPs assertion that John just went along with his wife.

The idea that they were both shot at Z224 is nonsense because JFK is already reacting. Not to mention all the 50+problems with the Magic bullet.. Jerry I recommend watching the full documentary I linked because it destroys the Magic bullet to the point that Nelly's Testimony isn't needed. I know how thinkers like you and Pat Speer like to project your own opinions onto witnesses and discount them when they don't say what you want them to. Pat also give Creedence to the fact that a fire work could of gone off on the grassy knoll but a team of Professial Scientists that later made a device to find Snipers for the military were wrong when they used the same science of the shot from he grassy knoll. Your belief that Connally could have shaped the FBI report shows me that you need to read more books and less websites that are the length of a book... 

[Gerry Down]

2 minutes ago, Matthew Koch said:

Your belief that Connally could have shaped the FBI report shows me that you need to read more books and less websites that are the length of a book... 

I just think the FBI interviewed him and used his account for the basis of their early report.

[Gerry Down]

 

18 minutes ago, Matthew Koch said:

The idea that they were both shot at Z224 is nonsense because JFK is already reacting. 

What frame do you think JFK started to react?

[Charles Blackmon]

This is Z225. JFK is reacting; Connally is not.

[Gerry Down]

3 minutes ago, Charles Blackmon said:

This is Z225. JFK is reacting; Connally is not.

Connallys lapel is reacting.

😛

[David Von Pein]

7 minutes ago, Charles Blackmon said:

This is Z225. JFK is reacting; Connally is not.

A still image of Z225 is worthless for trying to prove anything. You need to watch some of the frames in motion. And when you do that for Z224-225, it's fairly easy to determine that Connally most certainly IS reacting (shoulders are flinching, mouth is opening, and a grimace is forming on the Governor's face)....

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Charles Blackmon]

3 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

Connallys lapel is reacting.

😛

Pretty obvious Kennedy was struck while behind the sign.

[Gerry Down]

4 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

A still image of Z225 is worthless for trying to prove anything. You need to watch some of the frames in motion. And when you do that for Z224-225, it's fairly easy to determine that Connally most certainly IS reacting (shoulders are flinching, mouth is opening, and a grimace is forming on the Governor's face)....

 

Look at Connallys mouth. His mouth opens just as quickly as JFKs does.