The Clean Cut Throat Wound

[Charles Blackmon]

9 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

 No one bothered to tell them that the photography panel had concluded he was hit before going behind the sign.

This was brought up in an earlier post. What evidence is there that JFK was hit before disappearing behind the sign? Approximately which Z-frame?

[Pat Speer]

9 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

It's just my own theory of what I think happened. It's not really the type of thing you can "cite" for.

I think Oswald shot JFK while wearing only his white T-shirt. (And there are a few witnesses who said the 6th-Floor sniper had on "light colored" clothing, which would be helpful to the "T-shirt" theory.)

I think Oswald then used his brown shirt as a fingerprint-wiping rag as he raced to the northwest corner of the sixth floor after the shooting (although, yes, he missed the prints on the trigger guard). And that, IMO, is how the fresh fibers from his brown shirt got wedged under the butt plate of the rifle.

Oswald then dumped the rifle amongst the book stacks near the northwest stairwell, and as he went down the stairs, he hurriedly put his brown shirt on, but leaving it untucked and unbuttoned as he entered the second-floor lunchroom.

Hence, Officer Marrion Baker testified in this manner concerning the brown item of clothing he saw Oswald wearing when they were together in the lunchroom on November 22nd:

"I assume it was a jacket, it was hanging out." -- Marrion L. Baker [3 H 257]

 

Oh my. The fingerprint-wiping rag bit is just nonsense. You've seen the trigger guard prints. No one wiped the damn rifle, David. If you're gonna have a pet theory---which we all do--you should at least fine tune it to remove the nonsense.

The rifle was not wiped down. Period. 

[Pat Speer]

2 hours ago, Charles Blackmon said:

Well there you go! Somebody with power and authority was directing the autopsy. The three doctors did what they were ordered including not making an attempt to explore a bullet path from the back wound to the throat. The single bullet theory remains nothing more than conjecture.

As stated, Charles, there was nothing to dissect. While it's reported they were told not to dissect the neck, there would be no reason to dissect the back wound. To the doctors, it appeared to be a surface wound, like getting poked with a pencil. 

[Pat Speer]

2 hours ago, Charles Blackmon said:

This was brought up in an earlier post. What evidence is there that JFK was hit before disappearing behind the sign? Approximately which Z-frame?

The Panel's report was published in Volume 6 of the HSCA's 12 volumes. It reads, in part:

(61) The Zapruder film was studied with care at each of the Panel's conferences..At the final conference, which took place in July 1978, the film was closely scrutinized by 20 photographic scientists who were either members of the Panel or contractors responsible for much of the committee's laboratory work (i.e. photographic enhancement, restoration, etc.).

(64) By a vote of 12 to 5, the Panel determined that President Kennedy first showed a reaction to some severe external stimulus by Zapruder frame 207, as he is seen going behind a sign that obstructed Zapruder's view.

(65) By a vote of 11 to 3, the Panel determined that Governor Connally first showed a reaction to some severe external stimulus by Zapruder frame 224, virtually immediately after he is seen emerging from behind the sign that obstructed Zapruder's view.

(70) At approximately Zapruder frame 200 , Kennedy's movements suddenly freeze; his right hand abruptly stops in the midst of a waving motion and his head moves rapidly from right to his left in the direction of his wife. Based on these movements, it appears that by the time the President goes behind the sign at frame 207 he is evidencing some kind of reaction to a severe external stimulus.

 

 

 

[Charles Blackmon]

52 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

The Panel's report was published in Volume 6 of the HSCA's 12 volumes. It reads, in part:

(61) The Zapruder film was studied with care at each of the Panel's conferences..At the final conference, which took place in July 1978, the film was closely scrutinized by 20 photographic scientists who were either members of the Panel or contractors responsible for much of the committee's laboratory work (i.e. photographic enhancement, restoration, etc.).

(64) By a vote of 12 to 5, the Panel determined that President Kennedy first showed a reaction to some severe external stimulus by Zapruder frame 207, as he is seen going behind a sign that obstructed Zapruder's view.

(65) By a vote of 11 to 3, the Panel determined that Governor Connally first showed a reaction to some severe external stimulus by Zapruder frame 224, virtually immediately after he is seen emerging from behind the sign that obstructed Zapruder's view.

(70) At approximately Zapruder frame 200 , Kennedy's movements suddenly freeze; his right hand abruptly stops in the midst of a waving motion and his head moves rapidly from right to his left in the direction of his wife. Based on these movements, it appears that by the time the President goes behind the sign at frame 207 he is evidencing some kind of reaction to a severe external stimulus.

 

 

And yet the HSCA wrote that their acceptance of the SBT is contingent on the shot hitting Kennedy while he was obscured behind the sign?? Something does not add up.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Charles Blackmon

[Michael Crane]

3 hours ago, Charles Blackmon said:

Well there you go! Somebody with power and authority was directing the autopsy. The three doctors did what they were ordered including not making an attempt to explore a bullet path from the back wound to the throat. The single bullet theory remains nothing more than conjecture.

Here we go again.It's astounding that a bullet on a downward trajectory hitting JFK about 6 inches down from his neck & did not transit,can suddenly rise a few inches & exit the throat.

That was one remarkable bullet that could do tricks like go up,then down,then right and then left.

That sumbitch out performed Siegfried & Roy,David Blaine,Chriss Angel & Houdini all put together.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Michael Crane

[Pat Speer]

3 minutes ago, Charles Blackmon said:

And yet the HSCA wrote that their acceptance of the SBT is contingent on the shot hitting Kennedy while he was obscured behind the sign?? Something does not add up.

The HSCA didn't say that. The medical panel said that, and Baden repeated that numerous times. 

Blakey was determined to use science to solve the case. When his experts were at odds with each other he found a way around it. In this case he had Vincent Guinn claiming the bullet fragments in Connally's wrist matched the magic bullet. And he had the pathology panel claiming the SBT made sense provided JFK was leaning forward. And he had a photographic panel claim JFK was hit before going behind the sign. And, to top it off, he had an acoustics panel say a shot rang out at 190. So voila! the SBT occurred at 190, even though the pathology panel had rejected this.

So how did he get around this? NASA. They hired a NASA trajectory analyst to bs everybody. They'd moved the EOP entrance up to the cowlick, and this made no sense if the bullet really exited the front of the head, given the forward tilt of JFK in Z-312. And they needed JFK to be leaning forward at Z-190.

So they blew a big cloud of noxious smoke and claimed JFK was leaning forward at 190, got shot in the back, and then sat up in the car before getting shot in the head---the EXACT opposite of what everyone knows to be true. (FWIW, this is something I uncovered 15 years or so ago--it shocked me that no one had noticed it earlier.)

[Paul Cummings]

14 minutes ago, Michael Crane said:

Here we go again.It's astounding that a bullet on a downward trajectory hitting JFK about 6 inches down from his neck & did not transit,can suddenly rise a few inches & exit the throat.

That was one remarkable bullet that could do tricks like go up,then down,then right and then left.

That sumbitch out performed Siegfried & Roy,David Blaine,Chriss Angel & Houdini all put together.

So my madeup theory of the first shot deflecting off the cement, richocheting off Tague and hitting JFK in the throat. I call it the Richochet Bullet Theory. It never happened nor did the SBT.

[Tom Gram]

11 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Yes, Tom, I agree with you about LNers not really being in agreement with the HSCA when it comes to some of the details associated with the SBT. I'm certainly not in agreement with the HSCA on multiple things. Such as:

1.) The HSCA's Z190 timing for the SBT, which is totally Ludicrous. (Especially when taking into account the very low position of JFK's arms almost two full seconds later, at Z224.)

2.) The HSCA's "leaning forward" status of JFK during the SBT timeframe --- Ludicrous (and provably wrong, per the Zapruder Film).

3.) The HSCA's determination that JFK's back wound was actually anatomically LOWER on Kennedy's body than the throat wound --- Wrong (and I would say provably wrong, as I discuss here).

But....

When all was said and done....and after ALL of the evidence was examined by the HSCA (including the medical evidence)....the House Select Committee did still conclude that Bullet CE399 did, indeed, go through the bodies of both President Kennedy and Governor Connally.

So the HSCA definitely got the final conclusion correct, but they certainly arrived at that conclusion in some very strange ways.

 

As I’m sure you know, the HSCA photographic panel used JFK’s head snap to the left and his right arm/shoulder awkwardly freezing and shifting forward as evidence he was hit around Z190. I’m not convinced they were correct, but there is some credible corroborating evidence for a Z190 shot. 

JFK’s positioning and facial expression when he comes out from behind the sign can reasonably be interpreted as him being already hit, but it’s not exactly clear. There’s also a hell of a lot more eye and ear witness support for a Z190 hit as the first shot than there is for a Z160 miss, and the Z-film jiggle analysis corroborates those witnesses. Pat goes into considerable depth on this issue in chapters 5-9 of his website. 

I’m somewhat sympathetic to both positions, because the Z-film as a stand-alone piece of evidence does appear to support a Z160 miss, a Z224 simultaneous hit on JFK and JBC, and obviously the head shot at Z313. However, I have to agree with Pat that the vast, vast majority of the witness statements suggest a much different shooting scenario, with a first shot hit and the last two shots bunched together. 

 

[Michael Crane]

4 hours ago, Paul Cummings said:

So my madeup theory of the first shot deflecting off the cement, richocheting off Tague and hitting JFK in the throat. I call it the Richochet Bullet Theory. It never happened nor did the SBT.

You can also refer to it as the weight gaining theory.

There was more weight in bullet fragments contained in Governor Connally's wrist than what was lost from Commission number 399.

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Michael Crane

[Gerry Down]

6 hours ago, Charles Blackmon said:

Well there you go! Somebody with power and authority was directing the autopsy. The three doctors did what they were ordered including not making an attempt to explore a bullet path from the back wound to the throat. The single bullet theory remains nothing more than conjecture.

Burkley was just acting on the orders of RFK. Their whole goal was to make sure the public didn't find out about JFKs addisons disease. 

A cover up, yes.

But a cover up that had nothing to do with trying to hide a second shooter etc.

[Michael Crane]

Gerry Down would you please pick up the white courtesy phone.

 

[Charles Blackmon]

1 hour ago, Gerry Down said:

 

But a cover up that had nothing to do with trying to hide a second shooter etc.

Inside sources on this bombshell conclusion?

[Michael Crane]

1 hour ago, Gerry Down said:

But a cover up that had nothing to do with trying to hide a second shooter etc.

Gerald Ford got his hand caught in the cookie jar.

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Edited March 2, 2023 by Michael Crane

[David Von Pein]

6 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

The rifle was not wiped down. Period. 

So you say. But I disagree.