The Clean Cut Throat Wound

[Benjamin Cole]

https://www.military.com/video/guns/pistols/cias-secret-heart-attack-gun/2555371072001

"A CIA secret weapon used for assassination shoots a small poison dart to cause a heart attack, as explained in Congressional testimony in the video. The dart from this secret CIA weapon can penetrate clothing and leave nothing but a tiny red dot on the skin. On penetration of the deadly dart, the individual targeted for assassination may feel as if bitten by a mosquito, or they may not feel anything at all. The poisonous dart completely disintegrates upon entering the target. The lethal poison then rapidly enters the bloodstream causing a heart attack. Once the damage is done, the poison denatures quickly, so that an autopsy is very unlikely to detect that the heart attack resulted from anything other than natural causes. Sounds like the perfect James Bond weapon, doesn't it? Yet this is all verifiable in Congressional testimony. "

A mosquito bite? A "tiny red dot"? 

CV--do you have hard evidence there were larger darts that would bullet-holes in victims? 

So far, the evidence available indicates a poison dart was not used against JFK, or if it was, it was supplemented with ordinary (and effective) rifles. 

Can you research this further?

How would the tiny frozen dart penetrate the limo windshield to hit JFK in the throat? 

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

CV--

Other than description (linked to above) that the frozen darts would leave a small, nearly undetectable wound....do you have supplementary descriptions?

Why don’t you read the links provided?

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Such as, "some of the poisoned frozen darts left wounds the size of bullets?" 

Neither Senseney nor Colby described the rounds as “frozen.”  I think that was a colloquial turn of phrase on the part of the writer.

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

As you speculating there were frozen darts in 1963 that left bullet-hole sized holes, and not very small punctures, in JFK? 

I’m not speculating anything.  The historical record is there for those open to reading it. If you’re not open to reading those links why are you here?

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Give that a dart's purpose was to inject a minute amount of poison...

Not necessarily!  Some darts induced paralysis— the idea was to silence guard dogs.  JFK may have been hit with two paralytics specifically designed for the job.

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

 

were all such darts rather small? Do you know? 

Have you any diagrams or drawings of the purported darts? 

Do you have any descriptions of the wounds to a body produced by the darts...other than the one I provided, which was that the darts produced a very small wound? 

Review the record.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

Larry Hancock’s 

Nexus, pg 36:

<quote on, emphasis in the original>

Confirmation of the MKNAOMI project was revealed in 1977, when Carter administration Defense Secretary Brown requested an internal review of CIA projects which had involved the Department of Defense. The Department of Defense's legal counsel conducted the investigation and among other things reported back that MKNAOMI had begun in the early 1950's and was "intended to stockpile severely incapacitating and lethal materials and to develop gadgetry for dissemination of these materials."

A June 29, 1975 CIA memorandum has also been located which documents the SOD/CIA relationship and confirms that no written records were kept; management was by verbal instruction and "human continuity." The memo refers to "swarms of project requests" and cites examples of suicide pills, chemicals to anesthetize occupants to facilitate building entries, "L-pills" and aphrodisiacs for operational use. The memo notes "some requests for support approved by the CIA had apparently involved assassination."
<quote off>

Edited June 1, 2023 by Cliff Varnell

[Benjamin Cole]

11 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Larry Hancock’s 

Nexus, pg 36:

<quote on, emphasis in the original>

Confirmation of the MKNAOMI project was revealed in 1977, when Carter administration Defense Secretary Brown requested an internal review of CIA projects which had involved the Department of Defense. The Department of Defense's legal counsel conducted the investigation and among other things reported back that MKNAOMI had begun in the early 1950's and was "intended to stockpile severely incapacitating and lethal materials and to develop gadgetry for dissemination of these materials."

A June 29, 1975 CIA memorandum has also been located which documents the SOD/CIA relationship and confirms that no written records were kept; management was by verbal instruction and "human continuity." The memo refers to "swarms of project requests" and cites examples of suicide pills, chemicals to anesthetize occupants to facilitate building entries, "L-pills" and aphrodisiacs for operational use. The memo notes "some requests for support approved by the CIA had apparently involved assassination."
<quote off>

I read the two links, searching for darts. 

The CIA emphasis appeared to be on darts so small that a human victim would not even know he was struck. Makes sense, since the maximum range was only 100 yards. 

There appears to be a mismatch with what is known about the size and wounds left by the CIA poison darts on humans, and the wounds on JFK's body. 

You have not provided any evidence to links suggesting CIA poison darts left bullet-sized wounds on a human. 

 

[Cliff Varnell]

The FBI knew what offensive capabilities had been developed at Ft. Detrick, but they were officially briefed only on foreign use of MKNAOMI-style technology.

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/vol1/pdf/ChurchV1_6_Senseney.pdf

<quote on, emphasis added>

Senseney: And the only thing that I can say is, I just have to suppose that, having been told to maintain the sort of show and tell display of hardware that we had on sort of stockpile for them, these were not items that could be used. They were display items like you would see in a museum, and they used those to show to the agents as well as to the FBI, to acquaint them with possible ways that other people could attack our own people. (pg 163)

Baker: ...There are about 60 agencies of Government that do either intelligence or law enforcement work.

Senseney: I am sure most all of those knew of what we were doing; yes...

...The FBI never used anything. They were only shown so they could be aware of what might be brought into the country.

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I read the two links, searching for darts. 

The CIA emphasis appeared to be on darts so small that a human victim would not even know he was struck.

You assume that there was always an operational interest in the human victim not knowing if they were hit.

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

 

Makes sense, since the maximum range was only 100 yards. 

The small entrance wound in the throat is consistent with a dart, So is the light damage in the neck — hairline fracture, broken blood vessels, an air pocket.

Totally consistent with a dart.

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

There appears to be a mismatch with what is known about the size and wounds left by the CIA poison darts on humans, and the wounds on JFK's body. 

A shallow wound in soft tissue with no bullet recovered is consistent with blood soluble technology.

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

You have not provided any evidence to links suggesting CIA poison darts left bullet-sized wounds on a human. 

 

The throat damage and the back wound are far from “bullet sized wounds.”

[Benjamin Cole]

2 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

You assume that there was always an operational interest in the human victim not knowing if they were hit.

The small entrance wound in the throat is consistent with a dart, So is the light damage in the neck — hairline fracture, broken blood vessels, an air pocket.

Totally consistent with a dart.

A shallow wound in soft tissue with no bullet recovered is consistent with blood soluble technology.

The throat damage and the back wound are far from “bullet sized wounds.”

Do you have any estimate at all at the speed of the poison darts as they travelled through the air? 

The JFK back wound was a bullet-sized wound, and even had an abrasion collar, no? Is that even disputed? 

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Do you have any estimate at all at the speed of the poison darts as they travelled through the air? 

The JFK back wound was a bullet-sized wound, and even had an abrasion collar, no? Is that even disputed? 

No shallow wound in soft tissue is consistent with a standard bullet.  The abrasion collar you’re referring to is in the Fox 5 autopsy “photo”.

A lower margin abrasion collar consistent with a shot from below.

[Benjamin Cole]

6 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

No shallow wound in soft tissue is consistent with a standard bullet.  The abrasion collar you’re referring to is in the Fox 5 autopsy “photo”.

A lower margin abrasion collar consistent with a shot from below.

But the diameter of JFK's back wound was larger than a "tiny red dot." Average-sized diameter for a common bullet. 

And what is the speed of a CIA-designed poison dart? 

Some say the CIA lifted the poisoned dart technology from the KGB. 

Do you think it is possible Cubans or Russians shot JFK with poisoned darts? Why not? 

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

But the diameter of JFK's back wound was larger than a "tiny red dot."

Why do you assume every application of the blood soluble technology involved a tiny red dot?

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Average-sized diameter for a common bullet. 

A common bullet won’t leave a shallow wound in soft tissue, then disappear.

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

And what is the speed of a CIA-designed poison dart? 

Some say the CIA lifted the poisoned dart technology from the KGB. 

Some would be full of it.

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Do you think it is possible Cubans or Russians shot JFK with poisoned darts? Why not? 

The FBI was prepped to insist on such.

 

[Benjamin Cole]

21 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Why do you assume every application of the blood soluble technology involved a tiny red dot?

A common bullet won’t leave a shallow wound in soft tissue, then disappear.

Some would be full of it.

The FBI was prepped to insist on such.

 

Is there any evidence to exclude Boris Badinov and Natasha as suspects, using poisoned darts, in the death of JFK? 

What evidence do you have the FBI was prepped to imply Russians shot JFK with a poisoned dart? 

What is the speed poisoned dart as it passes through the air. Does it slow down after 50 meters? If you don't know, that is fine. 

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Is there any evidence to exclude Boris Badinov and Natasha as suspects, using poisoned darts, in the death of JFK? 

Was Rocky in on it?

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

What evidence do you have the FBI was prepped to imply Russians shot JFK with a poisoned dart? 

The FBI was officially briefed on blood soluble weapons “to acquaint them with possible ways that other people could attack our own people.”

Edited June 1, 2023 by Cliff Varnell

[Benjamin Cole]

28 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Was Rocky in on it?

The FBI was officially briefed on blood soluble weapons “to acquaint them with possible ways that other people could attack our own people.”

What is the speed of a poisoned dart? Do you have even a guess? 

If the poisoned dart had no physical shell, how did the dart maintain integrity as it was initially propelled, and then went through the air?

Did a shell fall off in flight? 

Could such a dart, just some sort of frozen or semi-soft mass, be fired only at slow speeds?

 

 

[Cliff Varnell]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

What is the speed of a poisoned dart? Do you have even a guess? 

MKNAOMI didn’t leave a paper trail.

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

If the poisoned dart had no physical shell, how did the dart maintain integrity as it was initially propelled, and then went through the air?

In Senseney’s testimony he said the round was coated.

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Did a shell fall off in flight? 

Could such a dart, just some sort of frozen or semi-soft mass, be fired only at slow speeds?

As I posted in my first response to you, weapons were built according to specific needs — as well as the “dog” gun that was used frequently.  Since there is no paper trail, only a reference to “swarms of projects”, we can’t know all the applications of the technology.

All we can know is that standard rounds don’t leave shallow wounds in soft tissue — blood soluble rounds did.

[Benjamin Cole]

19 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

MKNAOMI didn’t leave a paper trail.

In Senseney’s testimony he said the round was coated.

As I posted in my first response to you, weapons were built according to specific needs — as well as the “dog” gun that was used frequently.  Since there is no paper trail, only a reference to “swarms of projects”, we can’t know all the applications of the technology.

All we can know is that standard rounds don’t leave shallow wounds in soft tissue — blood soluble rounds did.

Where in the literature is there a reference to the CIA dart gun leaving a shallow bullet-hole like wound?

We see references to tiny red dots, but nothing of a type of dart that leaves a two-inch deep hole in a human body, large enough to stick a finger into.  

You keep asserting that a "blood soluble" round leaves a two-inch deep hole (or so) does...but is there any evidence of that? 

If your answer is, "well, no a paper trails"....

Such a dart-round must have been fired at 75 yards or so, minimum. And yet the speed of such as shot is unknown...but likely very slow, compared to a 30.06. That means there would be quite a bit of drop in the shot. 

A very and fragile light projectile, that could not withstand much propulsive power, and without structural integrity to leave anything to be found...fired at a moving target...into a wind....

You think that is what happened? And then this light projectile dart disintegrated in JFK's body but left a permanent two-inch deep hole in his back (after passing through a coat and shirt), a hole large enough to stick a finger into? 

Seems to me a few laws of physics might be challenged here.