Pierre Lafitte datebook, 1963

[Leslie Sharp]

44 minutes ago, Ed Berger said:

@Greg Doudna writes:

Interestingly, we can establish some circumstantial evidence that Pierre Lafitte did, at the very least, swim in some of the same circles as Roselli. One of the sections in CiD discusses Lafitte's business entanglements—this time entailing a securities fraud involving Canadian Javelin, a very suspicious Newfoundland-based company (as an aside, I had conducted an in-depth study of Javelin a full year prior to reading CiD, so frankly I was caught very off guard by its appearance in the book). Below I've attached two newspaper clippings, the first from the Bangor Daily News, dated March 10 1962, and the second from the Times Argus, same date. Both mention Lafitte in conjunction with the affairs of one Ralph Loomis, a holder of Canadian Javelin stock. 

This FBI document shows that Canadian Javelin's chief, John C. Doyle (an insider of the Teamsters Pension Fund shenanigans, a whole other host of misdeeds) established something of a sister company to Javelin, called the Jubilee Iron Corporation. Javelin and Jubilee even shared the same New York City offices. 

The FBI recounts that one of the holders of Jubilee stock was John Roselli, who had purchased through L.J. Forget & Company Ltd. after he had been "vouched for" by George Pallay, a resident at the infamous Desert Inn. Pallay, the document notes, was a close friend of Javelin/Jubilee chief John Doyle, indicating a relationship between each of these parties prior to the purchase of Jubilee stock. Another  FBI document states that Pallay had known Roselli for many years. 

There are, of course, problems here. Lafitte being involved in scheme around Canadian Javelin stock doesn't necessarily mean that he knew Javelin's John Doyle (though any involvement with Javelin is in my mind very suspect, since Javelin's entire existence is born out from the legacy of figures from the World Commerce Corp in Newfoundland). Another is the fact that Lafitte gets in trouble over Javelin and related things in 1962; Roselli buys into Jubilee in 1965—a not insignificant lapse of time. But by the same token, we have the FBI reporting on the one hand that Doyle was very close to Pallay, and that Pallay in turn had known Roselli for years. 

One thing that stands out in my mind as a way to tighten this web is to try and verify something stated in CiD: that Lafitte brought Harold Meltzer into the fold for his schemes with funny stock activities. 

 

Ed, I'm impressed you understood the Javelin angle to this investigation.

Like you, Hank and I looked under the rocks, chased characters that danced between the raindrops (John Wilson- Hudson was a favorite), kicked tires no one was willing to - or perhaps better said, bee hives.

Hank was contacted by a woman who knew the Lafitte children having spent summers at a resort together.  When Hank asked about the Loomis case, she immediately recognized the m.o. Lafitte had defrauded her own father in an exotic flower scheme. She later provided me with a caricature of Lafitte that I'm unable to post on EF due to the size of the file.  I've attempted to get some guidance from our hosts, so hopefully I can add more visuals soon.  One in particular may be of interest: Thomas Grattan Proctor, featured in Coup, in a full blown Heil Hitler salute.


Not to switch gears, but in the event Greg Doudna remains interested in this thread, I want to call attention to the appearance of 'Rothermel' in the Lafitte records.  @Greg Doudna, did you discuss Paul Rothermel at length when you interviewed John Curington? 



 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Leslie Sharp]

7 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

 

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Leslie Sharp]

Greg, I will answer your queries one by one, beginning with the last:

p.s. on page 576 of Coup in Dallas, the Nov 20 entry is transcribed as "Lanny-Filiol ... call Storey ... DeM ... Frank B...."

However the photograph of the Nov 20, 1963 entry has only the first three of those four names. The fourth, "Frank B", is non-existent in the photograph, and instead (where "Frank B" would be) there is something different: "Rifle into building..."

Is that a typo, or is that a relic of an earlier composition draft by the author(s), prior to the writing of that entry in the datebook, inadvertantly surviving into the published book? 
 

 

Greg, good sleuthing, and Iwon't make excuses, but suffice to say: Hank's unexpected (and personally destabilizing) death, complications with access to the datebook in the early months, Covid, and life, impacted bringing a perfectly edited version of our M/s across the finish line under pressure of the last available pub date.

Frank B here does not appear in the November 20, and yes, a relic of the pre-final edit of the M/s.  

I am looking at the original text as I type.  November 20 reads:
Lamy - Filiol at

hotel (names)

Call Storey - Duvall

DeM.—

Rifle into building —

yes/ok/DPD —

(DUUM) 

(I'm anxious to get with David J. to determine whether the last word or acronym, or string of letters is DUUM. If so, I believe I have an interpretation.)

Reference to Brandstetter appears in the October 21 entry:
 

Frank B. here - others

Jack - 1/day - MC

Edited July 28, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Greg Doudna]

12 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

Not to switch gears, but in the event Greg Doudna remains interested in this thread, I want to call attention to the appearance of 'Rothermel' in the Lafitte records.  @Greg Doudna, did you discuss Paul Rothermel at length when you interviewed John Curington? 

Yes I did a little outside of my taped interview of Curington, in which Rothermel did not come up. Curington did not volunteer anything re Rothermel beyond what is generally known. He did not speak ill of him, but he just did not say much. I wish I had more but sorry I do not. By the time I talked to Curington Rothermel was of course dead (from a fall from a roof according to Joan Mellen in Our Man in Haiti). 

Rothermel in a confidential FBI interview sort of trashes Curington: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9963#relPageId=117 

Here is the only obituary I could find of a Paul M. Rothermel, same name, same city of address (Richardson, Texas) as the FBI interview of HL Hunt's assistant Paul M. Rothermel ... same ex-FBI history ... but no mention in the obituary of having worked for H L Hunt. https://obits.dallasnews.com/us/obituaries/dallasmorningnews/name/paul-rothermel-obituary?id=51426158.

[David Josephs]

1 hour ago, Leslie Sharp said:

(DUUM) 

(I'm anxious to get with David J. to determine whether the last word or acronym, or string of letters is DUUM. If so, I believe I have an interpretation.)

Leslie...  Can you look again and see maybe it actually says DruM, as in where the rifle would be hidden until needed to be planted?  Oil "DRUMS" were used as garbage cans among other things.

Nothing for D.U.U.M. comes to mind.  But we're at the right place to elicit some help...

[Leslie Sharp]

34 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Leslie...  Can you look again and see maybe it actually says DruM, as in where the rifle would be hidden until needed to be planted?  Oil "DRUMS" were used as garbage cans among other things.

Nothing for D.U.U.M. comes to mind.  But we're at the right place to elicit some help...

Latin for deux.  2.

[Leslie Sharp]

2 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Yes I did a little outside of my taped interview of Curington, in which Rothermel did not come up. Curington did not volunteer anything re Rothermel beyond what is generally known. He did not speak ill of him, but he just did not say much. I wish I had more but sorry I do not. By the time I talked to Curington Rothermel was of course dead (from a fall from a roof according to Joan Mellen in Our Man in Haiti). 

Rothermel in a confidential FBI interview sort of trashes Curington: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9963#relPageId=117 

Here is the only obituary I could find of a Paul M. Rothermel, same name, same city of address (Richardson, Texas) as the FBI interview of HL Hunt's assistant Paul M. Rothermel ... same ex-FBI history ... but no mention in the obituary of having worked for H L Hunt. https://obits.dallasnews.com/us/obituaries/dallasmorningnews/name/paul-rothermel-obituary?id=51426158.

I've realized that what isn't in an obit is often important; case in point FBI SA Bard Odum. His obituary makes no mention of the K assassination or his role in the investigation — the crime of a career. The late Raymond Gallagher wrote a great monograph on Odum titled the Ubiquitous Bard.  He was "everywhere" in the first 48 hours and the subsequent investigation yet was never called before the WC.  

I was also going to ask whether you asked Ruth Paine about "Hart", or have you seen the photo of Odum with Marina holding the baby with translator standing by?

But I digress ...

The Lafitte ledger sheet reads: 
... Rothermel says no on gas ——— guns but T says ok....

This led us to consider that H. L. and/or Bunker Hunt were privy to if not involved in something that Lafitte played a direct role in as well. Rothermel was the acting rep. for the Hunts.  If the "kill teams" referenced in the datebook are Bunker and his daddy's private militia AVG, then the Lafitte ledger sheet makes sense ... and yet may not be specific to the Lancelot Project.

I'm sure you're aware that Paul Rothermel and Hunt were locked in a legal battle related to wiretapping during the silver debacle; and yet, apparently Rothermel never talked out of school.  Falling from a roof, a-la Win Scott is interesting, regardless.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[David Josephs]

14 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

Latin for deux.  2.

duum (Sundanese)

Verb

duum

1. to divide
2. to split

[Leslie Sharp]

2 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

duum (Sundanese)

Verb

duum

1. to divide
2. to split

Latin for French word deux:  2.

and coincidently the same number of rifles brought into the building by Warren Caster on November 20.

Incidentally, Caster lived out his years in ABQ; as did DAP's brother.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Leslie Sharp]

5 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Book: Charles Hamilton, Great Forgers and Famous Fakes (1996)

"... Well-executed forgeries and fakes have fooled dealers and collectors for more than a century. This thoroughly documented book, containing hundreds of examples that show how to identify the best that the most skillful forgers have produced, will provide the expert and the amateur with tools for self-protection. Great Forgers and Famous Fakes is also a chronicle of the careers of America's most adroit and colorful manuscript forgers, telling who they were and how they swindled their victims. The fascinating stories of forgers and their works include: -the poet who forged hundreds of Robert Frost manuscripts -the multimillionaire industrialist and founder of RCA who got his start as a forger-and years later got fooled by his own fake -the American Nazi who forged John Howard Payne's "Home, Sweet Home" -a round-dozen forgers of Abe Lincoln's handwriting..." (https://www.amazon.com/Great-Forgers-Famous-Fakes-Manuscript/dp/0944435408 )

About the author:

"Charles Hamilton, world's foremost handwriting expert, forensic document examiner, and literary historian made full use of his more than half a century in the manuscript field to detail the secrets of forgers and famous fakes using over 400 illustrations. Hamilton, the author of eighteen books, passed away in 1996. His recent books are William Shakespeare & John Fletcher, Cardenio or The Second Maiden's Tragedy, The Hitler Diaries; and In Search of Shakespeare."

One of the Amazon reviews...:

"With lots of righteous anger, Charles Hamilton, an earlier incarnation of America's Most Wanted Bill Walsh, tears through an ever-growing list of forgers who dare dump their wares on an unsuspecting, greedy public and stupid scholars. Hamilton's list of rogue forgers is really just small time criminals, some of who are pretty good at copying someone's handwriting and style. Some of the forgers are incredibly lazy, and mostly depend on 'the art of the con' to see them through. Since his caseload is pre-1980, there is no discussion of modern forgeries, with obvious advanced sophistication. The almost certain downfall of all the forgers is that they work alone, and suffer 'pride of authorship,' so they cannot look at their work with a critical eye, and avoid short-comings and missteps. Hamilton died in 1996, and I understand that he was more flamboyant in reality, than he appears in this scholarly/technical work. A good read, but, I'm sorry, Charlie, but I found myself rooting for the forgers."

Another article: "The Forged Texts of the Middle Ages: why Europe's holy men turned to counterfeiting" (2021)

"The desire to deceive – and be deceived – is universal, and the forging of documents as old as writing itself. In ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia, local priests – the experts in literacy – forged inscriptions in the names of earlier pharaohs and kings, claiming rights of preferential treatment. And scarcely a society can be found since in which such skulduggery was not practised in some form or another. But few regions in world history can rival medieval Europe for the sheer scale of forging. As modern scholars have established, over half of the surviving texts in the names of the Merovingian rulers of early medieval France and Germany (c481–752) are fakes; a third of those in the names of the Lombard rulers of northern Italy (568–774) are suspect; and similar figures hold true of the nearly 2,000 documents of pre-Conquest England. The vast majority of these texts were forged in the Middle Ages, in most cases between the 10th and 13th centuries. Those responsible were not a small cadre of recalcitrant rogues, but leading figures within the church – men such as Bishop Thietmar of Merseburg and Gilbert Foliot, abbot of Gloucester and later bishop of Hereford. . . . (https://www.historyextra.com/period/medieval/the-forged-texts-of-the-middle-ages-why-europes-holy-men-turned-to-counterfeiting/ )

I think even you will admit that yours is an embarrassingly unscientific argument, and possibly an unconscious projection of an early experience during your own education or career? You seem obsessed with conmen; growing up in Texas there was no greater religious conmen than the radio evangelists Herbert and Garner T. Armstrong. 

I've been reticent to provide an essay on East Texas which addresses the socio-political-religious ethos and how that spirit fueled the assassination of John Kennedy.  Specifically, and briefly, it can be argued that the heart of the Texas branch of the Military - Industrial Complex was East Texas = Lone Star Steel, Le Tourneau Mfg., Delta Drilling, and the munitions plant at Daingerfield.  Big Sandy was/is a pivot point in the geographic setting.  Armstrong found it fertile soil for his satellite college, and you apparently were drawn there for some reason. I can also walk you through the possible implications of Armstrong's friendship with King Leopold in context of Jack Crichton and the Katanga Freedom Fighters if you're interested. Crichton joined the Hunt Foundation the summer of 1963. Crichton of deGoyler Macnaughton (whose employee Declan Ford was posted in Madrid for the life of the project)  and Empire Trust, along with Al Meadows of the Howard Corp. (RNB Callas), Joe Zeppa of Delta Drilling (who was with GHWB and Al Ulmer the morning of the assassination) joined SS Otto Skorzeny in Madrid to pursue an "oil scheme" with the blessing of Spanish fascist dictator Franco.  

Of particular interest to us, you've defended Ruth Paine without considering the possibility she played a conscious role in helping maneuver Oswald via Marina into place as indicated in Lafitte's record; you've interviewed Curington but haven't pursued Paul Rothermel; in the process I contend you've missed  several key moments involving the Hunts; to my knowledge, you've not written about Bard Odum, likely caretaker for LHO when de M left town; I don't think you've pursued Everett Glover who actually served as conduit between Ruth and LHO - Glover appearing twice in Lafitte's records. 

So, linking examples of fraud stories over the decades is not an argument; it's a deflection.

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Leslie Sharp]

@Greg Doudna Have you crossed paths with Aginsky and/or Thorne?

[Benjamin Cole]

and coincidently the same number of rifles brought into the building by Warren Caster on November 20.--LS

And this means....what? 

Please explain this and provide context. 

[Michael Crane]

Good thread.

I'm going to go back to the beginning and read everything.

[Leslie Sharp]

5 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

and coincidently the same number of rifles brought into the building by Warren Caster on November 20.--LS

And this means....what? 

Please explain this and provide context. 

A detective you're not. 

[David Josephs]

9 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

and coincidently the same number of rifles brought into the building by Warren Caster on November 20.--LS

And this means....what? 

Please explain this and provide context. 

Really Ben?

You honestly cannot Google "WARREN CASTER" and look the darn thing up yourself?

Take you 5 minutes and then you do some reading.  You can probably search right here on the site and get your answers.

Why is it so hard for members to simply look it up for themselves instead of hoping someone spoon feeds it to them so they can then argue about it as if they knew what they were saying to begin with.

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/pdf/WH7_Caster.pdf
https://digitalcollections-baylor.quartexcollections.com/Documents/Detail/dallas-texas-witnesses/704948
https://gregwagnersite.files.wordpress.com/2019/06/rst-fbi-112463.pdf
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57694#relPageId=57&search="warren_caster"

 

Sorry - forgot the spoon

Edited July 28, 2023 by David Josephs