Note to Sandy

[Roger Odisio]

Sandy,

 

Yesterday you threatened to move one of Ben's posts to the political forum because you thought it was just a pretext for Ben to offer his "political musings".  I disagreed,  a couple of other folks did too, and that thread is still there.

 

Then today you moved the thread on Russiagate and the Durham report, without notice or discussion, to the political forum.  You haven't responded to any of the points I made yesterday, which also apply to your actions today.

 

A discussion of this is clearly necessary.

 

A separate "political" forum is clearly intended to include discussions of politics unrelated to the JFKA.  Problem is, the JFKA murder was a quintessential political murder, described as such by some writers on the topic.  It changed the result of the 1960 election and the whole trajectory of politics since, as I said yesterday.   

 

Bobby Jr is taking up where his father left off in '68. Not only about the JFKA itself, but the whole perpetual war mongering institution that has taken hold since the murder.  To see the magnitude of the change you need only reread JFK's '63 speech at AU laying out his clear vision for peace, and compare it to the political culture today.

 

By stoking fear and loathing of Russia, Russiagate has been a productive tool for the war mongers that populate both political parties and  that Kennedy wanted so much to blunt.  The Durham Report helps expose the connivance of political and security state leaders in furthering this atmosphere.  It will surely be of use to Jr as he battles those forces in his campaign.

 

Discussion of the JFKA cannot be confined to the murder itself, but must explore the aftermath, if it is to have any importance to life today.  The JFKA is not just a puzzle to be solved.  What is to be done with what we find out?  Nor can it be separated from politics, however you want to define that term.

 

Please reconsider what you have been doing.  This forum needs to be place that allows a full discussion of the JFKA and its ramifications.

 

  

[John Cotter]

2 hours ago, Roger Odisio said:

Sandy,

 

Yesterday you threatened to move one of Ben's posts to the political forum because you thought it was just a pretext for Ben to offer his "political musings".  I disagreed,  a couple of other folks did too, and that thread is still there.

 

Then today you moved the thread on Russiagate and the Durham report, without notice or discussion, to the political forum.  You haven't responded to any of the points I made yesterday, which also apply to your actions today.

 

A discussion of this is clearly necessary.

 

A separate "political" forum is clearly intended to include discussions of politics unrelated to the JFKA.  Problem is, the JFKA murder was a quintessential political murder, described as such by some writers on the topic.  It changed the result of the 1960 election and the whole trajectory of politics since, as I said yesterday.   

 

Bobby Jr is taking up where his father left off in '68. Not only about the JFKA itself, but the whole perpetual war mongering institution that has taken hold since the murder.  To see the magnitude of the change you need only reread JFK's '63 speech at AU laying out his clear vision for peace, and compare it to the political culture today.

 

By stoking fear and loathing of Russia, Russiagate has been a productive tool for the war mongers that populate both political parties and  that Kennedy wanted so much to blunt.  The Durham Report helps expose the connivance of political and security state leaders in furthering this atmosphere.  It will surely be of use to Jr as he battles those forces in his campaign.

 

Discussion of the JFKA cannot be confined to the murder itself, but must explore the aftermath, if it is to have any importance to life today.  The JFKA is not just a puzzle to be solved.  What is to be done with what we find out?  Nor can it be separated from politics, however you want to define that term.

 

Please reconsider what you have been doing.  This forum needs to be place that allows a full discussion of the JFKA and its ramifications.

 

  

Amen to all that.

I would add that it was a big mistake to banish the “56 years” thread to the oubliette. I said it at the time, I’ve said it repeatedly, and what has happened since has borne this out.

The 56 years thread served the useful purpose of providing a catch-all sub-forum where some of the more general political ramifications of the JFKA could be discussed. In the absence of that thread, there’s been a proliferation of overlapping threads about the Ukraine shambles, contemporary US politics and so on which has pushed threads about specific aspects of the JFKA out of sight.

There seems to have been an element of scapegoating about banishing the 56 years thread – as there was about the banning of Matthew Koch – in that members of a particular political persuasion were no longer dominating the thread as they had been previously.

As they say, “a good scapegoat is almost as good as a solution”. The binning of the 56 years thread and the banning of Matthew Koch might have seemed a good way of burying, temporarily at least, of what was for some an inconvenient reality.

But reality has a habit of not going away. Hence, its constant resurfacing under various headings in the absence of the 56 years thread, which had been created for the very purpose of accommodating it.

It’s not too late to reinstate the 56 years thread. Its absence has made a dog’s dinner of the forum.

Edited May 18, 2023 by John Cotter

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, John Cotter said:

Amen to all that.

I would add that it was a big mistake to banish the “56 years” thread to the oubliette. I said it at the time, I’ve said it repeatedly, and what has happened since has borne this out.

The 56 years thread served the useful purpose of providing a catch-all sub-forum where some of the more general political ramifications of the JFKA could be discussed. In the absence of that thread, there’s been a proliferation of overlapping threads about the Ukraine shambles, contemporary US politics and so on which has pushed threads about specific aspects of the JFKA out of sight.

There seems to have been an element of scapegoating about banishing the 56 years thread – as there was about the banning of Matthew Koch – in that members of a particular political persuasion were no longer dominating the thread as they had been previously.

As they say, “a good scapegoat is almost as good as a solution”. The binning of the 56 years thread and the banning of Matthew Koch might have seemed a good way of burying, temporarily at least, of what was for some an inconvenient reality.

But reality has a habit of not going away. Hence, its constant resurfacing under various headings in the absence of the 56 years thread, which had been created for the very purpose of accommodating it.

It’s not too late to reinstate the 56 years thread. Its absence has made a dog’s dinner of the forum.

John,

     Sandy is right on with this appropriate re-classification of certain forum threads.

     It's true that the 56 Years thread began as a sub-forum for informed discussions about the general ramifications of the JFK assassination-- hence the title, "56 Years."

     Unfortunately, it devolved into a repository for multiple daily MAGA spam posts by two forum members, in particular, which included lengthy diatribes denying the facts about Trump's Russia-gate scandal, and claiming that Trump's J6 coup attempt was a Deep State "patriot purge."

     Now we're seeing a resurgence of similar MAGA spam-- e.g., praising the Durham investigation nothing burger-- in the guise of multiple, redundant threads with "RFK, Jr." in the titles.

     It's somewhat ironic, considering that Bill Barr-- the mastermind of the Durham "investigation" propaganda op-- began his career as a CIA lawyer, before "Mr. George Bush of the CIA" promoted Barr to AG for the purpose of pardoning his Iran-Contra cronies.

     It's also ironic that Mr. Odisio would be morally indignant about the re-classification of MAGA spam, while simultaneously yukking it up with the ROKC forum critics of our Education Forum MAGA spam.

Edited May 18, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[Benjamin Cole]

Sandy is going to do what he is going to do. 

The EF-JFKA should be intensely interested in the RFK Jr Presidential bid---he is likely the only candidate who will open up the records---and in President Biden's illegal and contemptible suppression of the JFK Records. 

Russiagate? For me, Russiagate the game plan that will (and has) been used against any non-establishment candidate, political figure or  movement. 

There are platoons of earnest journalists---almost all of whom dislike Trump---but who have called Russiagate a hoax.  

Late in life I am coming to realize that all government "investigations" are essentially kangaroo courts---ponder the Warren Commission-FBI investigation of LHO. Innuendo or worse becomes "evidence," the narrative is controlled, the media becomes complicit, there is no defense counsel. 

Keep your eyes open for M$M-government treatment of RFK Jr.

First they will ignore him, and that may work. 

Then they will try to destroy him.

If that doesn't work, I don't want to think what will happen next...

 

[W. Niederhut]

Geez, Ben...   Thus far your "platoon" of journalistic claims that Russia-gate is a "hoax" have been thoroughly debunked by the facts.

And you have still not answered a single question I have asked you about the facts relating to the Trump campaign's 2016 Kremlin contacts, and Russian interference in our 2016 U.S. election on Trump's behalf.

Here's another "Russia-gate" question for you and the MAGA brain trust.

What was in the document that Reality Winner leaked to the Intercept, and why did she leak it?  Any clue?

[Benjamin Cole]

13 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Geez, Ben...   Thus far your "platoon" of journalistic claims that Russia-gate is a "hoax" have been thoroughly debunked by the facts.

And you have still not answered a single question I have asked you about the facts relating to the Trump campaign's 2016 Kremlin contacts, and Russian interference in our 2016 U.S. election on Trump's behalf.

Here's another "Russia-gate" question for you and the MAGA brain trust.

What was in the document that Reality Winner leaked to the Intercept, and why did she leak it?  Any clue?

We are worlds apart, and that is fine, in our perception of the R-word-gate Hoax. Forums are for varying viewpoints. You should be more respectful of people who have different conclusions than you. 

I did respond on Kilimnik-Manafort, but that thread had been banished. 

There was interference in the 2016 elections, but you may have the wrong capital city in mind. 

But more important: Keep eyes peeled for R-word-gating of RFK Jr., the lone candidate who will open up the JFK Records.

[Jonathan Cohen]

1 minute ago, Benjamin Cole said:

... RFK Jr., the lone candidate who will open up the JFK Records.

Do you really believe there are people who would vote for him simply because he says he "will open up the JFK records" ? Setting that aside for a moment, what qualifies him to be the President of the United States? And please don't say his lineage ... 

[Sandy Larsen]

Quarreling among forum members began spiraling out of control a couple months ago. In response the admin team enacted three things, and so far they are working quite well.

Here is how new policies can meet the concerns of the OPs, Roger Odisio and John Cotter:

1. Discussing today's politics will not help in solving the JFK assassination. They are off-topic for the JFK assassination forum. But we do have the Political Discussions board for those who want to discuss them.
2. Those who want to post to the 56 Year thread are welcome to post to its replacement, the Water Cooler threads.

As for Matthew Koch, his suspension had nothing to do with his political views. It had everything to do with his being involved in most the quarreling that had overtaken the forum at the time.

 

[John Cotter]

19 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Do you really believe there are people who would vote for him simply because he says he "will open up the JFK records" ? Setting that aside for a moment, what qualifies him to be the President of the United States? And please don't say his lineage ... 

Benjamin didn't say people would vote for RFK Jr simply because he would open up the JFK records - though maybe some people would.

There is a lot more to RFK Jr than his Kennedy surname. He has shown himself to be a man of principle, courage and substance, which is more than can be said of any recent US presidents or presidential candidates.

However, even if he was only equal in those respects to those comparators, the fact that he has already openly challenged the US government's complicity in the JFKA should be enough for anyone who is interested in it to support RFK Jr's candidacy. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by John Cotter

[Benjamin Cole]

57 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Do you really believe there are people who would vote for him simply because he says he "will open up the JFK records" ? Setting that aside for a moment, what qualifies him to be the President of the United States? And please don't say his lineage ... 

Well, I may be a minority of one, and I will vote for RFK Jr. as a single-issue candidate. He will open up the JFK Records. 

RFK Jr. may or may not be "qualified" to be President...but as I regard the current politico-economic system as corrupt...maybe a savvy outsider is needed, regardless of qualifications. 

Even if RFK Jr is a bust as president, at least we will get the records opened up. 

And really...would RFK Jr. be any worse or better than Trump or Biden? I think he would be better, although making predictions is difficult, especially about the future. 

 

 

[John Cotter]

51 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Quarreling among forum members began spiraling out of control a couple months ago. In response the admin team enacted three things, and so far they are working quite well.

Here is how new policies can meet the concerns of the OPs, Roger Odisio and John Cotter:

1. Discussing today's politics will not help in solving the JFK assassination. They are off-topic for the JFK assassination forum. But we do have the Political Discussions board for those who want to discuss them.
2. Those who want to post to the 56 Year thread are welcome to post to its replacement, the Water Cooler threads.

As for Matthew Koch, his suspension had nothing to do with his political views. It had everything to do with his being involved in most the quarreling that had overtaken the forum at the time.

 

Sandy,

This is supposed to be a debating forum not an opinionating echo chamber.

Since most people talk self-serving gibberish most of the time (Sturgeon’s law), untested opinions are less than worthless.

Hence, the Irish Gaelic proverbs “Mairg do-ní deimhin da bharúil” (Woe to him who deems his opinion a certainty) and “Is ionann barúil is bréag” (An opinion is the same as a lie.).

Grown-ups should be able to debate topics in a rational, respectful manner. Segregating members in the “water cooler” manner is treating them as children, idiots or baboons.

Edited May 19, 2023 by John Cotter

[Benjamin Cole]

49 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Quarreling among forum members began spiraling out of control a couple months ago. In response the admin team enacted three things, and so far they are working quite well.

Here is how new policies can meet the concerns of the OPs, Roger Odisio and John Cotter:

1. Discussing today's politics will not help in solving the JFK assassination. They are off-topic for the JFK assassination forum. But we do have the Political Discussions board for those who want to discuss them.
2. Those who want to post to the 56 Year thread are welcome to post to its replacement, the Water Cooler threads.

As for Matthew Koch, his suspension had nothing to do with his political views. It had everything to do with his being involved in most the quarreling that had overtaken the forum at the time.

 

"Discussing today's politics will not help in solving the JFK assassination." ---SL 

I respectfully disagree, if the topic if RFK Jr.'s candidacy.

I contend RFK Jr. will open up the JFK Records, and there is a reasonable expectation that opening the records will shed light on the JFKA. 

Commenting on how the M$M-intel state is sabotaging RFK Jr. seems like a worthy topic. 

Just IMHO....

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, John Cotter said:

Grown-ups should be able to debate topics in a rational, respectful manner. Segregating members in the “water cooler” manner is treating them as children, idiots or baboons.

 

Forum members were calling each other names, John. Moderation couldn't keep pace. Segregating the political discussions dramatically reduced the name calling.

How would you have solved the problem?

 

[Matthew Koch]

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Quarreling among forum members began spiraling out of control a couple months ago. In response the admin team enacted three things, and so far they are working quite well.

Here is how new policies can meet the concerns of the OPs, Roger Odisio and John Cotter:

1. Discussing today's politics will not help in solving the JFK assassination. They are off-topic for the JFK assassination forum. But we do have the Political Discussions board for those who want to discuss them.
2. Those who want to post to the 56 Year thread are welcome to post to its replacement, the Water Cooler threads.

As for Matthew Koch, his suspension had nothing to do with his political views. It had everything to do with his being involved in most the quarreling that had overtaken the forum at the time.

 

Actually,

It had to do with me criticizing the Mods and and a reason was Trumped up (pun intended) which was that I was "Stalking People". I was suspended without prior warning after I mentioned that the Mods let the 56 yr thread get out of hand and the reason they were shutting it down finally was because alot of people were criticizing them over it. Finally when I said that to Mark I was suspended and my comment was deleted and the 56yr thread was closed. And just like in my recent 48 suspension came after I criticized the mods again and my comment was deleted again and so was Chris's causing him to go from wavering on quitting to quitting (My comment was saying that I forgot that the mods are biased against conservatives and  a link to Chris Barnard's The Mods Are Biased Against Conservatives and Centrists... Which FYI Sandy moved to a place where it wouldn't be easily be seen and changed the title 1984 style prior to Chris changing it to it's final title.) 

 

To say that I was involved in most of the quarreling is inaccurate because Lance was involved in most of the quarreling until he called me a insulted my character so I did a key word search on the his name and the available facts he told us on Duck Duck Go and found an article about him being investigated for corruption and I brought that up and it must have had truth to it because he basically quit the forum over it. Now if there was moderation back towards people to the right of the mods.. I wouldn't have felt compelled to even the scales with Ole Lance.. but with Leslie, Niederhut, Matt Allison, Kurt, Paul, etc. Accusations of being Russian Agents, Racists, Facists, QAnon believers, Terrorists are tolerated by the mods by playing the game "Golly Gee Wiz, you didn't call a mod so that's why it's still there." When the slightest infection the other way is always responded to either making the person delete the comment or it being deleted or moved to a section where it goes to die. It goes one way as seeing how long the 56yr thread went on while it broke many forum rules such as being on topic and when it finally got on topic Trump Insurrection Tucker Carlson showed that it was a manufactured Deep Politics Event with Federal Provocateurs and inaccurate reporting that there was NOT an actual attempt to overthrow the Government. When that got exposed certain members decided that they were going to accuse Tucker Carlson and other forum members of being fascist White supremists. The Mods should have stepped in reminded people to not break rules but they didn't and so it turned into what it turned into and it wasn't just me doing as there is a record for people to see. Before me terrible stuff was tolerated by Mods towards Ben so it's not recent. I was just willing to stand up to it and attempt to balance the scales. 

There is a deep political bias amongst moderators. Forum users are divided into 3 camps: 

1) Those who condone the political bias or are not aware of it (Majority Democrats and Progressives)

2) Those who clearly see the bias, and are usually non-US voters(internationalists). There are a few republicans. These types are discriminated against and censored. 

3) Those who just don't want any politics here as it's ruining the forum. 

Any other explanation is inaccurate. There is a massive double standard which has been proved time and time again forexample the water cooler's being labeled Main Stream Facts vs Alternative Facts (MAGA). 

 

 

So, In conclusion I would like to do what Chris recently did and delete my profile 💯

Edited May 19, 2023 by Matthew Koch

[Sandy Larsen]

I want to inform members that, so far I haven't moved any threads over to the Political Discussions board. This is what I've done, and I've done it to three threads: I saw that a thread had started out fine, but morphed into a political thread that had little to do with the given topic name. So what I did was split it into two, left the original in place, and moved the political one to the Political Discussions board. And I gave the political one a new, appropriate name.

So I haven't moved any thread whose content has remained on topic.