Why would Oswald deny the Hidell signature?

[Steve Thomas]

In his FBI Report concerning Oswald's second interview on the 23rd, James Bookhout wrote:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=946#relPageId=647&tab=page

“With regard to Selective Service Card in the possession of Oswald bearing photograph of Oswald and the name of Alek James Hidell, Oswald admitted that he carried this Selective Service card, but declined to state that he wrote the signature of Alek J. Hidell appearing on same. He further declined to state the purpose of carrying same or any use he has made of same.”

 

James Bookhout. Warren Report. Appendix XI. Reports Relating to the Interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald at the Dallas Police Department

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=946#relPageId=647&tab=page

 

Mr. BOOKHOUT - One specific question was with regard to the selective service card in the possession of Oswald bearing a photograph of Oswald and the name Alek James Hidell. Oswald admitted he carried this selective service card, but declined to state that he wrote the signature of Alek J. Hidell appearing on same. Further declined to state the purpose of carrying same, and---or any use he made of same.

 

WC testimony of James Bookhout:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/bookhout.htm

 

Mr. STERN - What sort of question would he refuse to answer? Was there any pattern to his refusing?
Mr. BOOKHOUT - Well, now, I am not certain whether this would apply then to this particular interview, the first interview or not, in answering this, but I recall specifically one of the interviews asking him about the Selective Service card which he had in the name of Hidell, and he admitted that he was carrying the card, but that he would not admit that he wrote the signature of Hidell on the card, and at that point stated that he refused to discuss the matter further. I think generally you might say anytime that you asked a question that would be pertinent to the investigation, that would be the type of question he would refuse to discuss.

 

Thomas Kelley. Appendix XI of Warren Report. Page 627.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=946#relPageId=651&tab=page

“At this time, Captain Fritz showed a Selective Service card that was taken out of his wallet which bore the name of “Alex Hidell. Oswald refused to discuss this after being asked for an explanation of it, both by Fritz and by James Bookhout, the FBI Agent.”

 

The interrogation on Sunday the 24^th. Harry Holmes WC testimony:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/holmes1.htm

 

'Then Captain Fritz interrupted and said, "Well, what about this card we got out of your billfold? This draft registration card, he called it, where it showed A. J. Hidell."
"Well, that is the only time that I recall he kind of flared up and he said, "Now, I have told you all I am going to tell you about that card in my billfold." He said, "You have the card yourself, and you know as much about it as I do." And he showed a little anger. Really the only time that he flared up. “

 

Fritz's Interrogation Notes:

https://www.jfk-info.com/notes4.htm

Page 4

 

2^nd Interview November 23^rd 10:35 – 11:34

Present Were:

T.J. Kelly

Robert Nash

Grant??

B.O. and myself

Boyd + Hall

B.O. asks about Heidel selective service card – admits having- would not admit signature – wouldn't say why he had it.

 

What I am trying to figure out, is why Oswald didn't denounce the Hidell ID in as strong a terms as he denounced the photos of him with a rifle.
He didn't say, "The card's a fraud and I'll be able to prove it at a later time."

Supposedly, Oswald:

1) Admitted the card was in his possession;
2) Denied that the signature was his; and,
3) Refused to discuss it further

 

Is Oswald trying to tell us something?

Was he covering for someone?

 

Steve Thomas

[Michael Crane]

Could be because it seems to be an alias that spooks use.Double agent Richard Case Nagell used the name also?

[Gerry Down]

Oswald was trying to pretend Hidell was his friend. 

[Paul Cummings]

Still no attorney present. pfft.

[Charles Blackmon]

1 hour ago, Michael Crane said:

Could be because it seems to be an alias that spooks use.Double agent Richard Case Nagell used the name also?

Really? You have a source or is this unfounded? Seems big news if true. 

[Steve Thomas]

The name is not important.

The card is not important.

It's the signature that's the problem.

What was it about the signature that would cause Oswald to deny that it was his?

Steve Thomas

[Jonathan Cohen]

Because Marina wrote it and he was trying to protect her ?

[Michael Crane]

12 minutes ago, Charles Blackmon said:

Really? You have a source or is this unfounded? Seems big news if true. 

Seems that I might have made a boo boo.Nagell was caught with military ID in Lee Harvey Oswald's name.

 

*But there is something to do with spooks using double consonants in last names I seem to recall.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Michael Crane

[Gerry Down]

58 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

The name is not important.

The card is not important.

It's the signature that's the problem.

What was it about the signature that would cause Oswald to deny that it was his?

Steve Thomas

The signature would lead back to Oswald himself. 

Edited June 5, 2023 by Gerry Down

[Michael Griffith]

2 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

The name is not important.

The card is not important.

It's the signature that's the problem.

What was it about the signature that would cause Oswald to deny that it was his?

Steve Thomas

One possible explanation is that he knew he did not sign the card. It would have been telling to see the signature on the other Hidell ID card, the one that was found in the Oswald wallet that was found at the Tippit scene, but the DPD made that evidence disappear. 

[Steve Thomas]

2 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Because Marina wrote it and he was trying to protect her ?

Jonathan,

I personally believe that to be the case.

The Hidell signature on the Selective Service card ties Oswald to the rifle purchase.

The HSCA commissioned a team of people to analyze the handwriting of Oswald. They submitted 63 samples from 50 documents items to handwriting experts JOSEPH P. MC NALLY and DAVID J. PURTELL and CHARLES C. SCOTT.

HSCA VOLUME VIII HANDWRITING ANALYSIS OF LEE HARVEY OSWALD p. 223

March, 1979

http://jfkassassination.net/parnell/hscahand.htm

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=961#relPageId=227&tab=page

What is not included in this batch however, is the Selective Service card in the name of Hidell.

What was not done was to compare the signatures on the Hidell Selective Service card with the signature on the rifle's postal money order.

Why?

Compare the signatures of the Hidell Selective Service Card on CE 796 (Which is a photograph of CE 795)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=708&tab=page

with the Hidell Signature on the Hidell Postal Service Money Order on CE 788.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=703&tab=page

Steve Thomas

 

[Gerry Down]

The two signatures look the same to me. I think Oswald wrote both of them.

[Sandy Larsen]

5 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

 

The top "Hidell" flows naturally, while the second one doesn't. I think that the writer of the second signature was someone else and that this person copied the first signature.

The "H" in particular gives it away.

[Gerry Down]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

The top "Hidell" flows naturally, while the second one doesn't. I think that the writer of the second signature was someone else and that this person copied the first signature.

The "H" in particular gives it away.

The vertical space available might be smaller in the second image, forcing the writer to write more slowly.

[Steve Thomas]

1. Oswald admitted he had the Alek James Hidell Selective Service card, bur either “denied” or “declined to admit” that the signature was his.

2. Marina admitted to signing the name “Hidell” to “two or three things” with the name “Hidell” that were not pamphlets.

Warren Commission testimony of Marina Oswald June 11, 1964.

Warren Commission Hearings, Volume V pp. 401-402

https://www.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol5/page401.php

 

Mr. Dulles. Did you ever sign any more such cards with the name "Hidell"?

Mrs. Oswald. Only this one.

Mr. Dulles. And you never signed the name "Hidell" on any other paper at any time?

Mrs. Oswald. Only once.

 

Mr. Dulles. Did you ever sign the name Hidell at any subsequent time to any document?

Mr. Mckenzie. If you recall signing it. Do you recall signing his name to any other document?

Mrs. Oswald. I only remember this one occasion.

 

Mr. Dulles. Did you make some practice runs of writing this name before you actually put it on the card?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes; because it was difficult for me to write English properly.

Mr. Dulles. So you mean you wrote it several times on another sheet of paper and then put it on this card?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Representative Ford. Was there anybody else present at the time of this incident?

Mrs. Oswald. No; only Lee.

Representative Ford. Did he have you sign only one card?

Mrs. Oswald. This was the only time when I--when Lee asked me to do this and I did it. I might have signed two or--- cards and not just one but there weren't a great many.

Representative Ford. Did the other cards have someone else's name besides Lee Harvey Oswald on it?

Mrs. Oswald. No; only Lee Oswald.

Representative Ford. But you think you might have signed more than one such card?

Mrs. Oswald. Maybe two, three. This is just 1 day when I was signing this. It just happened on one occasion.

 

Marina's 1969 testimony at the Clay Shaw trial:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/marinash.htm

 

Q: Did you sign anything for him down here?

A: Yes, sir.

Q: What did you sign?

A: Some kind of paper about something, but I don't remember what it was.

Q: Would you recall --

A: The name Hidell.

Q: Hidell?

A: Yes.

Q: You signed the name, Hidell?

A: Yes, sir.

Q: And what was your purpose of doing that?

A: He asked me to do it and I refused, and then he forced me to do it.

Q: What do you mean, forced you?

A: He threatened me if I wouldn't do it he use, you know -- how shall I say?

Q: Physical threats?

A: Physical threats, yes, sir.

 

CE 2726 p. 105 (26H105)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=141&tab=page

 

is a June 17, 1964 letter from Hoover to J. Lee Rankin concerning Marina's signature on the A.J. Hidell signature on the Fair Play for Cuba Committee membership card.
The FBI determined that Marina signed the FPCC membership card in the name of A.J. Hidell. Hoover says that Exhibits 404A, 408A, 409A and 420 are being returned to you. These are samples of Marina's handwriting.

These handwriting examples can be found in Volume XVII of the Hearings and Exhibits here:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134

They were introduced during Ruth Paine's WC testimony in Volume II.

 

From Marina's HSCA Deposition:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/jfkinfo4/jfk12/marinade.htm

 

Q. Did he ask you to put your name on any of the leaflets ?
A. Well, he asked me to put my name on something but I didn't think it was those leaflets.

Q. What name did they have on the pamphlets? Did Lee have his name on the pamphlets?
A. I do not recall that the pamphlets have any name on them. I re- member that Lee used to sign his name different than his real name on some things but which things they were I do not recall right now.

 

Steve Thomas