Dear Moderator

[John Cotter]

21 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

       Well, not surprisingly, John Cotter has continued to dodge my question this week, while posting more Cotter-esque gibberish, including his shocking claim that Ireland is a "vassal state of the US empire"-- obviously, another hapless victim of US "full spectrum dominance," like Japan and Western Europe in the post WWII era.

      So, I take it that our forum's two Putin-adoring pen pals, John Cotter and Paul Rigby, would prefer to avoid living in "brutal US terror states" like South Korea or West Germany -- opting to live, instead, in Putin-aligned proletarian paradises like North Korea and Belarus.

      De gustibus non est disputandum... 🙄

 

South Korea-- A brutal American terror state

       

North Korea-- Beyond the Pale of American Full Spectrum Dominance

 

 

 

 

William,

Despite my answering your question, you falsely accuse me of dodging it – while in the same post implying that I had answered it!

You seem very confused.

Has your career in the authoritarian pseudo-science of mainstream psychiatry impaired your capacity to engage rationally with someone who disagrees with you and your capacity for self-reflection?

The infamous Rosenhan experiment and Thomas Szasz’s classic critique of institutional psychiatry, The Manufacture of Madness, come to mind.

There is another question which seems apposite. Have you ever lived and worked in a country other than the USA for a significant period of time?

Edited June 17, 2023 by John Cotter

[Mark Knight]

I've been away from the EF for a couple of weeks to try to not lose my objectivity.

For those who have advanced the idea that Ukraine joining NATO is "provocative" toward Russia, I ask:

On what occasion has NATO been an OFFENSIVE military operation in Europe, before Russia invaded Ukraine? It's a simple question, and the answer should likewise be simple. Just name a country that NATO has invaded.

 

 

[John Cotter]

39 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

I've been away from the EF for a couple of weeks to try to not lose my objectivity.

For those who have advanced the idea that Ukraine joining NATO is "provocative" toward Russia, I ask:

On what occasion has NATO been an OFFENSIVE military operation in Europe, before Russia invaded Ukraine? It's a simple question, and the answer should likewise be simple. Just name a country that NATO has invaded.

 

 

Mark,

Since your post seems to refer to me, among others, I hereby respond.

Firstly, insofar as your post immediately succeeds my refuting William Niederhut’s baseless accusation that I had dodged a (fallacious) question he had asked me, I hope you’re not insinuating that William’s accusation has any credibility.

Indeed, the confused nature of your post could be interpreted as you opportunistically rushing in to that effect.

When I say your post is confused, I refer to the fact that, among other things, your third paragraph doesn’t follow logically from your second paragraph. Whereas your second paragraph accurately describes the “poking the bear” argument that I and others have presented, your third paragraph is as scattered as a hare’s urine.

Could you please try to recast your third paragraph so that (a) it follows logically from your second paragraph and (b) we have a clear idea of precisely what question you are asking?

I would add that since the “poking the bear” argument is self-explanatory, your third paragraph seems redundant.

Edited June 17, 2023 by John Cotter

[Mark Knight]

Mr. Cotter, 

Nothing in my previous post is directed toward you in any way.

I was addressing an "elephant in the room" situation. If NATO has never previously attacked another nation's sovereignty, then upon what grounds would Russia feel threatened by any expansion of NATO, particularly at that nation's request?

I'm sorry to disappoint you if you're seeking a reason to take personal offense at my post. You were among the furthest people from my mind when I posted.

So I ask again: When has NATO taken the military offensive in a neighboring non-member nation without invitation by that nation? It truly is a simple question, and the answer should be just as simple.

[James DiEugenio]

Why are you ignoring the bombing of Libya Mark?

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Why are you ignoring the bombing of Libya Mark?

Mark clearly said “neighboring.””

I’m surprised the Putin Fanboy Club can’t answer the question!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

[John Cotter]

2 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

Mr. Cotter, 

Nothing in my previous post is directed toward you in any way.

I was addressing an "elephant in the room" situation. If NATO has never previously attacked another nation's sovereignty, then upon what grounds would Russia feel threatened by any expansion of NATO, particularly at that nation's request?

I'm sorry to disappoint you if you're seeking a reason to take personal offense at my post. You were among the furthest people from my mind when I posted.

So I ask again: When has NATO taken the military offensive in a neighboring non-member nation without invitation by that nation? It truly is a simple question, and the answer should be just as simple.

Mark,

Regarding your third paragraph, it's a common mistake (putting it benignly) to interpret my pointing out an opponent’s error (especially an ad hominem) as my taking personal offence, when what I’m really doing is trying to keep the debate honest and rational.

The insinuation thereby made that I’m some kind of a “snowflake” is of course an ad hominem which distracts from the real issue, which is the illogicality or inaccuracy I’ve pointed out.

As for your question(s), you haven’t clarified the matter at all, since you’ve asked two different, albeit somewhat related, questions in your second and fourth paragraphs respectively.

However, by way of responding to what you seem to be driving at, here is what I said in a post a few days ago on this thread:

I would just say that the claim that eastern European countries willingly joining NATO legitimizes NATO’s eastward expansion is disingenuous, because NATO is an instrument of the US foreign policy of global domination.

Therefore, by definition, the actions of these countries in joining NATO are not neutral or innocent vis-à-vis Russia – they clearly constitute an existential threat.

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/29209-dear-moderator/?do=findComment&comment=503984

I hope this helps.

Edited June 17, 2023 by John Cotter

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, John Cotter said:

I would just say that the claim that eastern European countries willingly joining NATO legitimizes NATO’s eastward expansion is disingenuous, because NATO is an instrument of the US foreign policy of global domination.

Therefore, by definition, the actions of these countries in joining NATO are not neutral or innocent vis-à-vis Russia – they clearly constitute an existential threat.

 But Russia posing an existential threat to its erstwhile allies is fine and dandy to Russo-fascists.

[John Cotter]

7 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

 But Russia posing an existential threat to its erstwhile allies is fine and dandy to Russo-fascists.

You don't seem aware of Professor John Mearsheimer's talks on this subject. I highly recommend them.

[Kirk Gallaway]

I'm currently in Hanoi and have been in Vietnam for the last month. I started out in Ho Chi Minh City, which about everybody who lives there calls Saigon. It's is a bustling, vibrant city of more than 8 million. More vibrant than any city I've visited on my travels here including Bangkok. I have a lot I can say about Vietnam.

But early one morning I was walking in Ho Chin Minh City and I came upon Ho Chi Minh square not surprisingly with a big statue in the center of it. I noticed a group were gathered in front.  I knew Ho Chi Minh was born around that time of year and I looked it up on my phone, and sure enough, it was Ho Chi Minh's birthday!

I wanted to take a picture of the opera house which was a short distance away. I did and about 5 minutes later I came back by the square and the memorial was wrapping up. I got close but there were police there who asked me politely to take film from a distance. I don't know why they were there, really. There were no other people there except the celebrants. I've got a short film but I'm showing just a couple of still shots.

They first thought of filling a football stadium with celebrants but decided against it. A joke.

The attitude from people from Saigon is that it doesn't matter what the government says. They are just going to power on economically, and probably at this point, keep their mouth shut, because all they really want, is a better life, just like the Ukrainians.

It's a little similar to the Ukrainians but of course, they're not engaged in a brutal war to defend themselves. Capitalism is going quite well for the Vietnamese. Cranes everywhere in Saigon, Da Nang and even Hanoi.

 

Ok for those who always seem to know what's ultimately best for everyone else. We all know Capitalism and it's  income inequality is facing a serious crisis now.

But if given the choice that many previous Soviet bloc countries were facing between joining the West and joining Russia. What fool wouldn't know which to pick?

 

I understand the arguments for not getting involved in the Ukraine War the first place, which as I said was Biden's first position, to provide asylum to Zelensky. It prolongs the  War. War's never good. And all the money we're spending that could be spent on human beings in our country.

 

Jim, John, Paul though I'm not exactly sure I put Greg in the same category. I'm  reminded what my Dad, who was a pretty intelligent guy said to me  during one of our hot political discussions during the Vietnam War days. "Well if you think the Soviet Union is so good. Why don't you just go to Russia!"  heh heh

But even then, I didn't need any lecture. I knew the Soviet Union wasn't that good. And I think any people with any sort of reasoning and real life experience knows the current answer to that question.

What fool country if given the choice, (or it's past experience) would pick Russia?

But are whole generations just pawns in the game?

 

Michael G. weren't you having a discussion with Jim about the oppressiveness of the current regime in Vietnam?

Eddie's bar in downtown Saigon.

 

But just to ensure you still can't sleep at night because of  the brutal regime. There is still cause for alarm. A Russian restaurant!

 

Do both these images tell you there might be some freedom going on? (Actually  I think the restaurant statement might be a little tongue in cheek. Many Russians are fleeing Putin's war down there and their behavior is causing some concern in the 4 SE Asian countries I've  visited. Though many I found were in their 40's, above draft age?)

Despite the fears expressed about the new BRIC government's resistance to the U.S. the everyday people never like a big country invading their neighbor.

Some of our Brit friends who number amongst the most avid and varied conspiracy hobbyists here, might take comfort on the political statement of my boatman in Hoi An!

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Kirk Gallaway

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, John Cotter said:

You don't seem aware of Professor John Mearsheimer's talks on this subject. I highly recommend them.

By all means argue the points.  

And explain how America’s losses in many countries 1959-2021 constitutes world domination.

[W. Niederhut]

John,

     I'm responding to your latest post and questions in red (below.)

John Cotter wrote:

William,

Despite my answering your question, you falsely accuse me of dodging it – while in the same post implying that I had answered it!

You seem very confused.

I must have missed your answer, John.  Did you opt for life in North Korea or South Korea?

Has your career in the authoritarian pseudo-science of mainstream psychiatry impaired your capacity to engage rationally with someone who disagrees with you and your capacity for self-reflection?

The infamous Rosenhan experiment and Thomas Szasz’s classic critique of institutional psychiatry, The Manufacture of Madness, come to mind.

"Authoritarian pseudo-science?"   Thomas Szasz?  Surely, you jest.

Your "knowledge" of the clinical science of psychiatry is, apparently, sophomoric, in the worst sense of the word. 

It is based on evidence-free "theorizing" about "madness."

Thomas Szasz's mythology is only taken seriously by people who have never encountered or studied the actual phenomenology of psychiatric disorders-- schizophrenia, manic depression, delusional disorders, severe OCD, etc.

Have you spent any time with severely mentally ill patients on psychiatric wards, John?

There's nothing "mythical" about their psychoses.

There is another question which seems apposite. Have you ever lived and worked in a country other than the USA for a significant period of time?

Not sure what is relevant about your question, but I'll respond.  What the hell?

I've traveled fairly widely in the world-- especially in my younger years. 

Never lived abroad (as opposed to traveling), other than the summer of 1973, when I lived with a Mexican family and studied Spanish in Saltillo, Mexico.  And I have spent time in Mexico almost every winter for most of the past 30 years.  In fact, I always wanted to retire in Mexico, before the drug cartels took over Quintana Roo.

I once hiked to the top of the main pyramid at Chichen Itza, 30 years ago, before it was closed to the public.

I once met Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew at the Phanar in Istanbul.  

I have traveled in the U.K., Spain, France, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Russia, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Estonia, and, especially, Slovenia (where my mother's parents were born.)

I once rowed out to the island chapel on Lake Bled.  (see photo below)

I once attended a Ceilidh in Dunvegan on the Isle of Skye. 

As for your island of Hibernia, I've been to the James Joyce castle in Sandy Cove and Trinity College in Dublin.  I even stayed at the "Boarding House" in Dublin that was the site of James Joyce's story, The Boarding House, in Dubliners.

Below:  Lake Bled, Slovenia

[W. Niederhut]

Addendum:   Oops... I just posted my travelogue response (above) for John Cotter, before seeing Kirk's interesting commentary about his current trip to Vietnam.

My bad, Kirk.  Great post, and thanks for sharing.

[John Cotter]

I'm stepping back from this "debate" for now at least because I'm spending too much of my precious time rebutting nonsense.

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, John Cotter said:

I'm stepping back from this "debate" for now at least because I'm spending too much of my precious time rebutting nonsense.

Hysterical to the end.