USAF COL. Prouty, Operation BLOODSTONE, SS-Obersturmbannführer Skorzeny, & the murder of President Kennedy...

[Jeff Carter]

27 minutes ago, Robert Montenegro said:

 

That's a big negative on your part, and a fair amount of deflective semantics.

I suggest you go back and read "Understanding Special Operations and their impact on the Vietnam War Era: 1989 Interview with L. Fletcher Prouty Colonel USAF (Retired)" by David T. Ratcliffe.

 

The following is COL. Prouty talking about some of the missions he was involved with as a member of Air Transport Command, United States Army Air Corps:

 

QUOTE —

 

"...The interesting thing about that was, once we got into the air, I realized that some of my passengers were not these American pilots. They were men from the Balkans. In fact, we were talking, and then later on I learned they were people who had been selected by the OSS in the Balkans for special evacuation before the Soviet armies arrived. Because they were Nazi intelligence officers, and (for some reason) our own OSS wanted to get them out of there. This puzzled us a little bit, but we weren't in the political business so we didn't ask too many questions. But I've done a lot of thinking since then, especially since the publication of this book Blowback and others, that shows we exfiltrated thousands of ex-Nazis out of Germany for various reasons after WWII..."

 

— END QUOTE.

 

And that was just one mission COL. Prouty was involved with in 1944, ferrying Nazi intelligence agents out of Turkey, the Balkans, and Ukraine.

 

Like I said, COL. Prouty was front-and-center to those Nazi émigré espionage networks.

 

Once again, I am not attacking COL. Prouty, but reality needs to set in—the man was not innocent of protecting, training, arming and utilizing fascist war criminals... 

 

You are confused.

Prouty was assigned a mission to arrange aircraft and participate in flying them to a location in Syria where they would meet with a contingent of Allied POWs released from Roumania, who would then be flown to safety. Intermingled with the POWs were men who, it gradually became apparent, were German military personnel who were also being relocated. Prouty did not know of these men before the mission. He did not draw up the mission. He arranged a fleet of aircraft under orders and had them flown to the location he was instructed.  How that becomes being “front and centre” to Nazi emigre networks I have no idea.

The Nazis were an OSS project. Prouty was working for the Air Transport Command.

[James DiEugenio]

Prouty actually talked about this mission back in the mid nineties at a conference in Washington.

Whew,  some limited hangout.

HIs ideas about the JFK case are that of a high level cabal, the term he used. He has described this as being between the CIA, the JCS, and big business leaders outside the government. And there is plenty of evidence for that idea.

And please do not use that hatchet job by TIm Wray and the ARRB against him.  That has already been exposed.

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/fletcher-prouty-vs-the-arrb

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Robert Montenegro]

57 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said:

You are confused.

Prouty was assigned a mission to arrange aircraft and participate in flying them to a location in Syria where they would meet with a contingent of Allied POWs released from Roumania, who would then be flown to safety. Intermingled with the POWs were men who, it gradually became apparent, were German military personnel who were also being relocated. Prouty did not know of these men before the mission. He did not draw up the mission. He arranged a fleet of aircraft under orders and had them flown to the location he was instructed.  How that becomes being “front and centre” to Nazi emigre networks I have no idea.

The Nazis were an OSS project. Prouty was working for the Air Transport Command.

 

You know what, yeah, you got me.

Damn, of course, COL. Prouty was working for US Army Air Corps, Air Transport Command at the end of World War II.

Dang, why didn't I read that properly?!

Shoot.

I guess I'll go cook a baloney sandwich.

Wait a tick, Mr. Carter, put that baloney sandwich on hold!

Who was COL. Prouty's immediate superior officer? 

Oh, yeah, COL. Prouty's immediate superior officer from 1943 to 1945 was United States Army Air Corps Maj. Gen. Robert James Smith, commander of the United States Army Air Corps, African Division, Air Transport Command!

Maj. Gen. R.J. Smith was general traffic manager, American Airways, executive vice president, Braniff Airways Inc.,  president, Pioneer Airlines, and director, Continental Air Lines Inc., I wonder if any of those companies leased aircraft to CIA narco-trafficking proprietary airlines Civil Air Transport AKA Air America (hint, hint, they all did).

Plus, Maj. Gen. R.J. Smith was director First National Bank of Dallas and director & chairman, Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, I wonder if any of those banking entities had anything to do with the machinations surrounding the murder of President Kennedy (hint, hint, they both did).

Plus, Maj. Gen. R.J. Smith was member, Advisory Committee, Export-Import Bank of Washington, I wonder if that banking institution had anything to do with laundering tons of narco-dollars from CIA fronts (hint, hint, it sure did)

Plus, Maj. Gen. R.J. Smith was  director of Dallas Chamber of Commerce & director of Dallas Council On World Affairs, I wonder if he served with a rogues gallery of suspects in the Kennedy assassination (hint, hint, he sure did).

Maj. Gen. R.J. Smith was also a commander of Operation PAPERCLIP, I wonder if he served with a rogues gallery of Nazi war criminals and technicians (hint, hint, he sure did).

But I guess your right, Mr. Carter, COL. Prouty only worked for and was lifelong friends with United States Army Air Corps Maj. Gen. Robert James Smith, commander of the United States Army Air Corps, African Division, Air Transport Command.

You got me...

[Robert Montenegro]

15 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Prouty actually talked about this mission back in the mid nineties at a conference in Washington.

Whew,  some limited hangout.

 

I have read those transcripts and they are almost verbatim the slivers of information COL. Prouty fed to David T. Ratcliffe.

Whew, some saving of face there, Mr. DiEugenio.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Robert Montenegro

[James DiEugenio]

Oh no, now we get a word salad right out of something like the Torbitt Document.

Prouty's record is there for all to see at Len Osanic's web site.

I used much of it for my article on Epstein.  

Its very strange to me when people on this forum side with the likes of Epstein.  

 

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Robert Montenegro]

29 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Oh no, now we get a word salad right out of something like the Torbitt Document.

Prouty's record is there for all to see at Len Osanic's web site.

I used much of it for my article on Epstein.  

Its very strange to me when people on this forum side with the likes of Epstein.  

 

 

 

The Torbitt Document is a pile of junk.

 

Where do you get off comparing all of the direct source quotes that I use from COL. Prouty to describe his service record (which is not complete on Len Osanic's site, or else it would have the information I posted here), to the junk that Edward Jay Epstein put out?!

Edward Epstein was a literal shill for CIA Counterintelligence Chief James Jesus Angleton!

 

Well, here it is folks, for all the world to see, the brilliant James DiEugenio, breaking with Education Forum rules, standards of etiquette, & all semblance of civilized decorum, by comparing me to a CIA Counterintelligence mouth-piece like Epstein.

Your true colors are on display to-day, Mr. DiEugenio.

I think what you meant to say about my post here to-day is:

 

 

I guess you can say, when it comes to the Nazis and their relationship with golden-calf COL. Prouty, Mr. DiEugenio did NOT-SEE anything...

Edited July 16, 2023 by Robert Montenegro

[Robert Montenegro]

27 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Oh no, now we get a word salad right out of something like the Torbitt Document.

Prouty's record is there for all to see at Len Osanic's web site.

I used much of it for my article on Epstein.  

Its very strange to me when people on this forum side with the likes of Epstein.  

 

I just want to post that again, the hitherto formally-unflappable, James DiEugenio, comparing my work to the steaming pile of dog excrement that is the Torbitt Document & Edward Jay Epstein, a literal shill for CIA Counterintelligence Chief James Jesus Angleton.

 

To quote James Donald from the closing scene of "The Bridge on the River Kwai":

 

MADNESS!

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Robert Montenegro

[James DiEugenio]

Robert:

Anyone of any objectivity can see what I meant by the Torbitt Document.

When you have to go through as many sideways and oblique associations as you did above, then to me, that is so strained it has little or no meaning. Except it reveals your almost inexplicable desperation to smear Prouty.

Oliver Stone's attackers, like the late Robert Sam Anson and Epstein,  also used this angle to get to Oliver.  And people on this forum, like Mike Griffith, have joined in that angle of attack. Tim Wray of the ARRB did the same.

I have never found that to be of any material use to either appraising the movie JFK,  or shedding light on either the Kennedy assassination or Prouty's ideas about it. Or Fletcher's contributions to the film. 

I have addressed those issues in the article i posted above and in an article I did on Epstein.

Personally Robert, I have always liked you, and I think you do some good work. Because of that, how you ever got on this Prouty angle is kind of puzzling to me.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Paul Brancato]

Perceptive reasoning Robert. I understood the concept of a limited hangout, but had not really considered the long range effect of those such as Prouty bequeathed on us. Limited hangouts can be very useful also to their targets, in this case the leftward intellectuals, as long as they are recognized for what they are and analyzed, rather than swallowing them whole. 
 

[Jeff Carter]

52 minutes ago, Robert Montenegro said:

 

You know what, yeah, you got me.

Damn, of course, COL. Prouty was working for US Army Air Corps, Air Transport Command at the end of World War II.

Dang, why didn't I read that properly?!

Shoot.

I guess I'll go cook a baloney sandwich.

Wait a tick, Mr. Carter, put that baloney sandwich on hold!

Who was COL. Prouty's immediate superior officer? 

Oh, yeah, COL. Prouty's immediate superior officer from 1943 to 1945 was United States Army Air Corps Maj. Gen. Robert James Smith, commander of the United States Army Air Corps, African Division, Air Transport Command!

Maj. Gen. R.J. Smith was general traffic manager, American Airways, executive vice president, Braniff Airways Inc.,  president, Pioneer Airlines, and director, Continental Air Lines Inc., I wonder if any of those companies leased aircraft to CIA narco-trafficking proprietary airlines Civil Air Transport AKA Air America (hint, hint, they all did).

Plus, Maj. Gen. R.J. Smith was director First National Bank of Dallas and director & chairman, Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, I wonder if any of those banking entities had anything to do with the machinations surrounding the murder of President Kennedy (hint, hint, they both did).

Plus, Maj. Gen. R.J. Smith was member, Advisory Committee, Export-Import Bank of Washington, I wonder if that banking institution had anything to do with laundering tons of narco-dollars from CIA fronts (hint, hint, it sure did)

Plus, Maj. Gen. R.J. Smith was  director of Dallas Chamber of Commerce & director of Dallas Council On World Affairs, I wonder if he served with a rogues gallery of suspects in the Kennedy assassination (hint, hint, he sure did).

Maj. Gen. R.J. Smith was also a commander of Operation PAPERCLIP, I wonder if he served with a rogues gallery of Nazi war criminals and technicians (hint, hint, he sure did).

But I guess your right, Mr. Carter, COL. Prouty only worked for and was lifelong friends with United States Army Air Corps Maj. Gen. Robert James Smith, commander of the United States Army Air Corps, African Division, Air Transport Command.

You got me...

You are referring to CR Smith (Cyrus Rowlett Smith).

Other than the war effort, Smith had a lifelong career with American Airlines and was a major figure in the development of passenger airline travel and considered “one of the most influential persons in aviation history.” Prouty described him as “an absolutely magnificent person.”

Your repeated reference to an "RJ Smith" does not inspire confidence in wherever you are going with this.

[James DiEugenio]

A cabal of the CIA, the JCS and the Wall Street tycoons is a limited hangout?

JFK was getting out of Vietnam is a limited hangout?

The Secret Service failed to call in support when it was available, that is a limited hangout?

Please Paul.

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Robert Montenegro]

24 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Robert:

Anyone of any objectivity can see what I meant by the Torbitt Document.

When you have to go through as many sideways and oblique associations as you did above, then to me, that is so strained it has little or no meaning. Except it reveals your almost inexplicable desperation to smear Prouty.

Oliver Stone's attackers, like the late Robert Sam Anson and Epstein,  also used this angle to get to Oliver.  And people on this forum, like Mike Griffith, have joined in that angle of attack. Tim Wray of the ARRB did the same.

I have never found that to be of any material use to either appraising the movie JFK,  or shedding light on either the Kennedy assassination or Prouty's ideas about it. Or his contributions to the film. 

I have addressed those issues in the article i posted above.

Personally Robert, I have always liked you and I think you do some good work. Because of that, how you ever got on this Prouty angle is kind of puzzling to me.

 

 

 

My dear Mr. DiEugenio, I am not trying to smear COL. Prouty.

I consider him a brave man, who blew the whistle on many state-crimes committed by the intelligence services of the Western orbit during the Cold War, and I consider him a patriot in his own, sad, repentive way.

However, the specter he remained silent about until the final years of his life, fascist war criminals within the ranks of organizations that he oversaw as Chief of Special Operations, Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the far-right platforms he utilized to address that specter, that has to be addressed in a civil fashion.

And that is what I am doing.

You are a hero of mine, since I first learned of the JFK assassination narrative flaws when I was a junior in high school.

But COL. Prouty's covert action support networks were transplanted directly from Nazi war criminals and ranking functionaries of the Holocaust.

That is what I am addressing on this post. 

This isn't an attack on COL. Prouty, it is a direct accounting.

    

Edited July 16, 2023 by Robert Montenegro

[Robert Montenegro]

9 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said:

You are referring to CR Smith (Cyrus Rowlett Smith).

Other than the war effort, Smith had a lifelong career with American Airlines and was a major figure in the development of passenger airline travel and considered “one of the most influential persons in aviation history.” Prouty described him as “an absolutely magnificent person.”

Your repeated reference to an "RJ Smith" does not inspire confidence in wherever you are going with this.

 

Maj. Gen. Cyrus Rowlett "C.R." Smith was the deputy commander of the United States Army Air Corps, Air Transport Command.

Maj. Gen. Robert James "J.R." Smith was commander of the United States Army Air Corps, African Division, Air Transport Command.

R.J. Smith served under C.R. Smith.

Two different people.

No cigar.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Robert Montenegro

[Robert Montenegro]

38 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

A cabal of the CIA, the JCS and the Wall Street tycoons is a limited hangout?

JFK was getting out of Vietnam is a limited hangout?

The Secret Service failed to call in support when it was available, that is a limited hangout?

Please Paul.

Mr. Brancato was directly referencing my theorem, Mr. DiEugenio, not smearing COL. Prouty.

No need to go on the attack.

And yes, COL. Prouty did effectively turn the world on to the fact that President Kennedy was reversing course on the covert wars in Indochina and the CIA puppet régime in Vietnam (a covert war COL. Prouty was arming all the way back to 1955).

But I stress that COL. Prouty's narrative surrounding the United States Secret Service was an outright lie.

That, as I stated before in this post, was proven to be a false narrative pushed by COL. Prouty, confirmed by interviews conducted by Dan Hardway in his United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations interviews and Lt. Col. Timothy Wray in his Assassination Records Review Board interviews.

The real crime is that the USSS agents in the motorcade were sleep deprived and hungover from drinking all night at a nightclub called "The Cellar" and then used that as an excuse for their inaction in the motorcade.

The only USSS agent that did his job that day was Clinton J. Hill, and he was a late add-on to the motorcade protection, assigned to protect the First Lady, Jacqueline Kennedy.

The USSS agents public intoxication and inaction is the real crime.

Not that some phantom request for military support was denied, as COL. Prouty claims.

Plus, that narrative is a silly canard, because if the military was involved in murdering President Kennedy (which fascist elements of it were, right up to members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff), how would the addition of military security be effective?!

No, the fact of the matter is, no matter how many security teams could have been assigned to the motorcade, they would have been rendered neutral some way.  

Kind of like SS-Obersturmbannführer Otto Skorzeny's literal job description was in the closing hours of WWII—commander of the Nazi German Military Section D, or Militarrisches Amt-D, which was the Nazi intelligence section tasked with infiltration operations against United States military intelligence.

Herr Skorzeny did his job well.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Robert Montenegro

[Paul Brancato]

Jim - and others - why is it when researchers like Robert point directly to documents detailing someone’s (Prouty and others) duties and job titles inside the military hierarchy as they intersect with the well known and documented incorporation of Nazis and Eastern European fascists into our intelligence apparatus, you suddenly put up blinders? 
it is clear - I’m shocked you don’t all see this - that Prouty both told the truth and withheld the truth. That is a limited hangout. 
Jim - you have won my respect, Robert’s, and probably most others here. Jim - you and Stone have certainly used him as a source. You think highly of him. So let’s get down to nuts and bolts, something Leslie is trying to do on another thread, and which we rarely do here. No generalities, specifics. We know Oswald didn’t do it. But who did? Who is Prouty’s vaunted Secret Team? Anyone? William? What Robert and Leslie, to their credit, are trying to do is focus us in on who did it. What was the chain of command? Who shot the guns? How’d they get into and out of Dallas? Did Prouty name names? Did he claim that Lansdale ran the Dallas operation? Which oil men, which industrialists, were meeting and colluding? WHAT DID PROUTY ACTUALLY CONCLUDE? Maybe I missed something ….