RFK Jr. Says He's Not Anti-Vaccine; Record Shows Otherwise

[Mark Knight]

RFK Jr. says he’s not anti-vaccine. His record shows the opposite. It’s one of many inconsistencies | AP News

[W. Niederhut]

Well, honestly, these reports raise a lot of serious questions for me about RFK, Jr.'s personality.

Why would he now deny being an anti-vaxxer?

Does he have a habit of not telling the truth?

I wondered about this issue when I first read about Kennedy family members-- including RFK, Jr.'s own sister-- criticizing his anti-vaccine propaganda during the pandemic.

Obviously, they know him better than we do. 

Why would they bash their own brother and cousin?

And why are his key staffers mainly associated with his anti-vaccine organization?

Is he getting any sound advice from informed people?

He has also exhibited poor judgment, IMO, by declining to criticize Trump's blatant criminal conduct, (during and after his Presidency.)

[John Cotter]

I’ve previously posted the video below of RFK Jr debating both a doctor and a town hall moderator on his vaccine stance. Nobody has been able to identify any flaw in his position:

https://twitter.com/DireReport/status/1674248850180288518

Also, vaccine scientist and RFK Jr critic Professor Peter Hotez has been offered 2.6 million dollars to debate RFK Jr on the Joe Rogan show, but he has declined the offer. One of the excuses Hotez made is that “in science we do not do debates”. So much for vaccine “science”.

https://rumble.com/v2vcqo6-2.6-million-isnt-enough-for-hotez-v-rfk-jr-ep.2.html

[W. Niederhut]

31 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

I’ve previously posted the video below of RFK Jr debating both a doctor and a town hall moderator on his vaccine stance. Nobody has been able to identify any flaw in his position:

https://twitter.com/DireReport/status/1674248850180288518

Also, vaccine scientist and RFK Jr critic Professor Peter Hotez has been offered 2.6 million dollars to debate RFK Jr on the Joe Rogan show, but he has declined the offer. One of the excuses Hotez made is that “in science we do not do debates”. So much for vaccine “science”.

https://rumble.com/v2vcqo6-2.6-million-isnt-enough-for-hotez-v-rfk-jr-ep.2.html

John,

    Dr. Hotez is quite correct.  Studying and discerning scientific facts isn't talk radio or politics.  It isn't about rhetoric and public grandstanding.

    It's about scientific data and its proper statistical analysis.

    What background education has RFK, Jr. had in science and medicine that qualifies him to disagree with educated medical experts?

[John Cotter]

11 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

John,

    Dr. Hotez is quite correct.  Studying and discerning scientific facts isn't talk radio or politics.  It isn't about rhetoric and public grandstanding.

    It's about scientific data and its proper statistical analysis.

    What background education has RFK, Jr. had in science and medicine that qualifies him to disagree with educated medical experts?

You’re confusing science with dogma.

Speaking of which, you’ve ignored the video I posted of RFK Jr debunking the official covid dogma spouted by a doctor and a town hall moderator.

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, John Cotter said:

You’re confusing science with dogma.

Speaking of which, you’ve ignored the video I posted of RFK Jr debunking the official covid dogma spouted by a doctor and a town hall moderator.

John,

    I prefer to get my medical opinions from sources like the New England Journal of Medicine.   I once had the privilege of dining with Dr. Arnold Relman, the late Editor-in-Chief of NEJM.  Dr. Relman advised the medical students at the table to eschew owning stocks in pharmaceutical companies.  I took his advice.

    Remind me again, if you will.  What educational background does RFK, Jr. have in biology, medicine, and statistical analysis that qualifies him to disagree with highly trained, reputable experts in virology, immunology, and epidemiology?

    From what I have heard, his college roommate at Harvard wrote RFK, Jr.'s senior (political) thesis.

Edited August 2, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[Kirk Gallaway]

15 hours ago, John Cotter said:

You’re confusing science with dogma.

Speaking of which, you’ve ignored the video I posted of RFK Jr debunking the official covid dogma spouted by a doctor and a town hall moderator.

 

Medical dogma John??? Like we should all put out our faith now in Cotter dogma? 

Wow! great video clips! I can see John spends hours scouring Youtube  looking for  the straight skinny fluff American msm interviews with RK. How many times are you going to show that clip with Ellen Vargas and RK, John? Unlike you, I actually do look at these clips if they're not too long.

 

And the second clip with what looks to be a cross between  Colonel Tom Parker and Colonel Sanders railing on 'bout the oppressive 'guvment plot behahnd the covid vaccines!

 

In that clip , they actually brag about abusive, misogynist  Andrew Tate being "one of the boys" contributing money toward a a vaccine debate between Hotez and  legacy admission RK, who now has the privileged luxury in old age to act out his bucket list doctor fantasy as a 3 year old, to become our national immunologist!

I would say listen to this below, and see how well RK comports himself with these 2 libertarian guys who at least exhibit common sense.

 

Re Cotter: The last time a guy bragged so much about his superior immune system like Cotter. He ended up Pm'ing  me with dick pix!

I mention that because I want to head that thought  off at the pass!

 

Call me old school but I think  pumped up comedians like Rogan give his profession a bad name. But John mentions or shows clips of him so much. I can only imagine John's fantasy is  being crushed like a tooth pick in Rogan's big manly American Exceptional arms!

 

 

 

heh heh

 

 

[John Cotter]

On 8/2/2023 at 4:43 PM, Kirk Gallaway said:

 

Medical dogma John??? Like we should all put out our faith now in Cotter dogma? 

Wow! great video clips! I can see John spends hours scouring Youtube  looking for  the straight skinny fluff American msm interviews with RK. How many times are you going to show that clip with Ellen Vargas and RK, John? Unlike you, I actually do look at these clips if they're not too long.

 

And the second clip with what looks to be a cross between  Colonel Tom Parker and Colonel Sanders railing on 'bout the oppressive 'guvment plot behahnd the covid vaccines!

 

In that clip , they actually brag about abusive, misogynist  Andrew Tate being "one of the boys" contributing money toward a a vaccine debate between Hotez and  legacy admission RK, who now has the privileged luxury in old age to act out his bucket list doctor fantasy as a 3 year old, to become our national immunologist!

I would say listen to this below, and see how well RK comports himself with these 2 libertarian guys who at least exhibit common sense.

 

Re Cotter: The last time a guy bragged so much about his superior immune system like Cotter. He ended up Pm'ing  me with dick pix!

I mention that because I want to head that thought  off at the pass!

 

Call me old school but I think  pumped up comedians like Rogan give his profession a bad name. But John mentions or shows clips of him so much. I can only imagine John's fantasy is  being crushed like a tooth pick in Rogan's big manly American Exceptional arms!

 

 

 

heh heh

 

 

Thanks again, Kirk, for that further instalment of first-rate gibberish. It gave me lots of laughs.

Indeed, I would go so far as to say that you’ve invented a new genre of internet discourse which should be called the pish gallop after the (a) Gish gallop, (b) the Irish saying that I mentioned previously, “as scattered as a hare’s piss” (‘chomh scaipthe le mún giorrai‘) since the hare reputedly urinates on the run and (c) the word “pish” as defined in the Cambridge Dictionary (‘used to express disagreement or to say that something is nonsense’).

And by the way, you needn’t worry about my dick. It’s in fine fettle, thanks very much.

[John Cotter]

On 8/2/2023 at 1:46 AM, W. Niederhut said:

John,

    I prefer to get my medical opinions from sources like the New England Journal of Medicine.   I once had the privilege of dining with Dr. Arnold Relman, the late Editor-in-Chief of NEJM.  Dr. Relman advised the medical students at the table to eschew owning stocks in pharmaceutical companies.  I took his advice.

    Remind me again, if you will.  What educational background does RFK, Jr. have in biology, medicine, and statistical analysis that qualifies him to disagree with highly trained, reputable experts in virology, immunology, and epidemiology?

    From what I have heard, his college roommate at Harvard wrote RFK, Jr.'s senior (political) thesis.

Your relentless obsession with irrelevance is typical of what the Ethical Skeptic described in his article “How to Argue Like a Child” (see link below).

In this case, your response is irrelevant to the post by me to which you pretend to rebut. For example, your name-dropping is a pathetic attempt to lend some kind of authority to your spurious arguments.

As for the New England Journal of Medicine, the following extract from Ben Goldacre’s widely acclaimed 2012 book Bad Pharma makes clear that the NEJM is nothing like the oracle of scientific objectivity that you make it out to be:

“Overall, the pharmaceutical industry spends around half a billion dollars a year advertising in academic journals. The biggest – NEJM, JAMA – take $10 or $20 million each, and there is a few million each for the next rank down. Strikingly, while many channels are run by professional bodies, their income from advertising is still far larger than anything they get from membership fees.” (p 309)

The following quote from a Wikipedia article on Marcia Angell, described therein as “American physician, author, and the first woman to serve as editor-in-chief of the New England Journal of Medicine.” is even more damning.

Quote:

In her 2009 article "Drug Companies & Doctors: A Story of Corruption", published in The New York Review of Books magazine, Angell wrote :

...Similar conflicts of interest and biases exist in virtually every field of medicine, particularly those that rely heavily on drugs or devices. It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine.

End quote.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcia_Angell

This is echoed in the following passage from the aforementioned book by Ben Goldacre:

“Drugs are tested by the people who manufacture them, in poorly designed trials, on hopelessly small numbers of weird, unrepresentative patients, and analysed using techniques which are flawed by design, in such a way that they exaggerate the benefits of treatments. Unsurprisingly, these trials tend to produce results that favour the manufacturer. When trials throw up results that companies don't like, they are perfectly entitled to hide them from doctors and patients, so we only ever see a distorted picture of any drug's true effects. Regulators see most of the trial data, but only from early on in a drug's life, and even then they don't give this data to doctors or patients, or even to other parts of government. This distorted evidence is then communicated and applied in a distorted fashion. In their forty years of practice after leaving medical school, doctors hear about what works through ad hoc oral traditions, from sales reps, colleagues or journals. But those colleagues can be in the pay of drug companies – often undisclosed – and the journals are too. And so are the patient groups. And finally, academic papers, which everyone thinks of as objective, are often covertly planned and written by people who work directly for the companies, without disclosure.” (p xi)

In view of the pervasive corruption in the medical establishment thus described, it’s incumbent on politicians and citizens to examine health related issues for themselves and make up their own minds about which medical experts and sources to believe.

Hence, your point about RFK’s formal qualifications is irrelevant to the question of the validity of his arguments. And needless to say, your dirty little allegation that he cheated a university exam is likewise irrelevant.

By your “logic” only people with relevant qualifications should consider and debate health matters. And by that logic, you shouldn’t be here debating me and politicians shouldn’t be debating and making decisions on public health measures.

What pish.

https://theethicalskeptic.com/2019/11/10/how-to-argue-like-a-child/

[W. Niederhut]

John,

    Much of what you quoted here is complete garbage-- including Goldacre's claim about allegedly small patient sample sizes in FDA drug trials.

    (Incidentally, Obama's FDA Director was a classmate of mine at Harvard-- an exemplary physician, like her father, whom I had an opportunity to meet back in the day.  He was President of the Institute of Medicine.)

    The statistical power of any controlled medical treatment study is a direct function of n.  That's Statistics 101 stuff.

     I don't want to hurt your feelings but, to be honest, I don't want to waste anymore of my time trying to converse with you about medical evidence and the scientific method.  If you want to post some peer-reviewed data from reputable scientific journals, I'll take a look.

     Thousands of unvaccinated people, like you, died of COVID because they "did their own research" on YouTube and the internet.

     And, unfortunately, RFK, Jr. was a major propagator of anti-vax disinformation during that deadly world crisis.

Edited August 3, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[John Cotter]

47 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

John,

    Much of what you quoted here is complete garbage-- including Goldacre's claim about allegedly small patient sample sizes in FDA drug trials.

    (Incidentally, Obama's FDA Director was a classmate of mine at Harvard-- an exemplary physician, like her father, whom I had an opportunity to meet back in the day.  He was President of the Institute of Medicine.)

    The statistical power of any controlled medical treatment study is a direct function of n.  That's Statistics 101 stuff.

     I don't want to hurt your feelings but, to be honest, I don't want to waste anymore of my time trying to converse with you about medical evidence and the scientific method.  If you want to post some peer-reviewed data from reputable scientific journals, I'll take a look.

     Thousands of unvaccinated people, like you, died of COVID because they "did their own research" on YouTube and the internet.

     And, unfortunately, RFK, Jr. was a major propagator of anti-vax disinformation during that deadly world crisis.

More irrelevant pish from William. 

It never ends.

[Kirk Gallaway]

6 hours ago, John Cotter said:

Thanks again, Kirk, for that further instalment of first-rate gibberish. It gave me lots of laughs.

Ok, I try to put in some laughs just to let you know I can do this with love.

But your fluffy presentation interview that you've used now 3 times between Ellen Vargas and RK. is really superficial.

And the list of donors to the Rk/ Hotez debate on Joe Rogan includes a pimp misogynist.

Did you check out my recommended clip in the Reason interview with RK? The difference between the Vargas interview is night and day.

Even if you're an RK worshipper, he spends so much time rambling, back pedaling and off on diversions.

I know something about holding an audience, and he takes way too long.  But more importantly, he  provides no sense of closure.

Is it any surprise that his campaign has stalled?.

It doesn't look good. Unfortunately this topic has dominated his campaign. But it is important, and he has only himself to blame.

[Leslie Sharp]

' . . . Other top Kennedy supporters [in addition to Timothy Mellon, son of OSS Paul Mellon] include Patrick Byrne, the former chief executive of Overstock.com, and venture capitalist Chamath Palihapitiya, as well as a large contribution from a group funded by Silicon Valley investor David Sacks. 
https://www.ft.com/content/bafd0e2b-901a-4c47-b721-5c563532028a

 

The Oval Office meeting took place Dec. 18, about six weeks after the 2020 presidential election lost by former President Trump; outside advisers including former Trump attorney Sidney Powell, former national security adviser Michael Flynn and former Overstock CEO Patrick Byrne gathered for a discussion with White House attorneys. 

They discussed a plan to have the military seize voting machines in the key states that Trump lost, appoint Powell as a special counsel to investigate purported voter fraud and have Trump declare martial law as part of the effort to overturn the election results. 

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4085087-special-counsel-digging-into-oval-office-meeting-in-final-days-of-trump-presidency-report/

 

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Kirk Gallaway]

42 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

' . . . Other top Kennedy supporters [in addition to Timothy Mellon, son of OSS Paul Mellon] include Patrick Byrne, the former chief executive of Overstock.com, and venture capitalist Chamath Palihapitiya, as well as a large contribution from a group funded by Silicon Valley investor David Sacks. 
https://www.ft.com/content/bafd0e2b-901a-4c47-b721-5c563532028a

 

The Oval Office meeting took place Dec. 18, about six weeks after the 2020 presidential election lost by former President Trump; outside advisers including former Trump attorney Sidney Powell, former national security adviser Michael Flynn and former Overstock CEO Patrick Byrne gathered for a discussion with White House attorneys. 

They discussed a plan to have the military seize voting machines in the key states that Trump lost, appoint Powell as a special counsel to investigate purported voter fraud and have Trump declare martial law as part of the effort to overturn the election results. 

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4085087-special-counsel-digging-into-oval-office-meeting-in-final-days-of-trump-presidency-report/

 

 

Great find, Leslie!  Wish i could read it but I don't want to subscribe.

Patrick Byrne, with Michael Flynn ans Sydney Powell were part of the plan to seize the voting machines in the key states and to have Trump declare martial law.  Then later to put pressure on Pence to declare a delay one week so they, in a coordinated attack  could try to influence those key state legislators.

If they are contributors  to RK's campaign. I wonder why he hasn't been asked about them yet? It would be interesting to see how many people here would still insist that RK is being picked  on by the "Deep State"! 

Watch how cagey Byrne is in this episode of Frontline before he is exposed as the kingpin! @26:45 through 35:00!

 

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

Yup here it is! Byrne has contributed $100,000 to Rk's campaign.  It was released yesterday in the NY times! I know who Kate Kelly is.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/02/us/politics/rfk-jr-donors.html