Was Tippit at Lancaster and 8TH?

[Bill Brown]

7 hours ago, Steve Roe said:

Bill, of course this mega-silly. Growing up and Dallas, I can confirm Lancaster was pronounced phonetically "Lank-ur-ster". That's what my relatives called it, and friends of the family. We were often in the area on the street of Lancaster in the early 1960's in Oak Cliff. Similar to this, Dallas residents often referred to Zang Blvd as "Zang's". 

And as usual, they never think this through. 

 

Steve, apparently there's a conspiracy at every turn; including the one at Lankster & 8th.

 

[Ron Bulman]

On 8/19/2023 at 7:27 AM, Michael Kalin said:

I can't make out either Lansing or Corinth in the 12:44 Angell message, but at 12:45 he clearly refers to Corinth:

"We're going north on Industrial from Corinth."

This appears in CE1974 and the Kimbrough/Shearer transcript (#387) available at Bill Drenas' website.
http://www.billdrenas.com/articles/dpd01-00.pdf

The Kimbrough/Shearer transcript also contains a preceding message from Angell, #364: "Corinth and Eighth."

It's not likely Angell was at Lansing & Eighth at 12:44.

Agreed.  I've seen no evidence he was involved in Oak Cliff other than going from there to the TSBD before Tippit was shot.  Assuming Tippit was at Lancaster & 8th at 12:54, and his enunciation was that of a not well educated east Texas hick, the timing is still tight.

South on Lancaster to Jefferson, west on it a block past the Texas Theater to Top Ten Records at Bishop St.  Left on it to park considering he went in to make a not reported out of the car phone call and wouldn't leave his cruiser with the cherry on top out on busy Jefferson for observation.  Before or after making the call, turning around on Bishop to race across it to the next street, Sunset, running the stop sign to take a right on it.

Next turning up one block north on 10th, 5 blocks west of where he would be killed.  Racing past, cutting off and running back to look in Williams rear floorboard, then taking off without saying a word, "a few minutes after 1:00".  At some point turning back around and heading east on 10th.  Cruising slowly crossing Patton, to meet his destiny about 1:06/1:07 per Helen Markam, the only actual witness.  That's a lot of activity for 12-13 minutes.

It does seem what Tippit's dad told Dr. McBride about another officer telling Marie they were hunting Oswald could well be true.

[Michael Kalin]

12 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Next turning up one block north on 10th, 5 blocks west of where he would be killed.  Racing past, cutting off and running back to look in Williams rear floorboard, then taking off without saying a word, "a few minutes after 1:00".  At some point turning back around and heading east on 10th.  Cruising slowly crossing Patton, to meet his destiny about 1:06/1:07 per Helen Markam, the only actual witness.  That's a lot of activity for 12-13 minutes.

 

I think you mean Andrews, not Williams. In Nightmare (p. 452) McBride describes Greg Lowrey's version of this incident, which precedes the Top Ten phone call. This is plausible. Lowrey was the source of information about the encounter. It may make the difference of a minute or two, enough to accommodate the tight succession of events.

[Ron Bulman]

Yes, it was Andrews.  I thought he had said a few minutes after 1:00.  Not true.  Lowery says before Top Ten, another researcher thinks afterwards, Joseph agrees with Lowery.

So Tippit goes down Lancaster to Jefferson, then back up to 10th to chase down Andrews, then down to the Top Ten on Jefferson.  Then back across it to Sunset taking a right, running the stop sign.  On up to 10'th, east to his destiny at Patton.

Or, Tippit goes west on 8th at 12:54 to Beckley, five blocks south of 1026, then south to Patton, the most direct route to it.  Then west, to chase down Andrews six blocks west of where he would be shot.  Then south across Jefferson to the Top Ten Record Shop to get out (again) to make a phone call.  Then back across Jefferson to Sunset running the stop sign and somewhere up to 10th and east to his destiny at Patton.

[Kevin Balch]

On 8/16/2023 at 9:24 PM, Ron Bulman said:

To go from the Gloco station at the Houston viaduct a block East to Lancaster then down it reporting in at 12:54 as he gets to 8th.  On down to Jefferson?  Then stopping at Top Ten to use the phone.  North on Bishop across Jefferson to Sunset, right on it.  Then stopping Andrews heading West on 10th 5 blocks East of where he would die a 1:06.  It doesn't make sense to me time wise.  Adding in him going by and asking Olsen if he'd seen Oswald pass by or looking in that area stretches the possibilities even more.

Does anyone know what time Cecil McWatters bus cleared the post-assassination traffic jam and made it to Gloco and on to Jefferson & Marsalis? It had to be at least 15 minutes behind schedule.

[Michael Kalin]

On 4/16/2024 at 4:01 PM, Kevin Balch said:

Does anyone know what time Cecil McWatters bus cleared the post-assassination traffic jam and made it to Gloco and on to Jefferson & Marsalis? It had to be at least 15 minutes behind schedule.

McWatters' bus was scheduled to arrive at Jefferson & Marsalis at 12:50PM (CE378), but did not arrive before C.T. Walker's 1:34PM radio message directing DPD to the library at that location. For details see William Weston's "Missing Radio Transmissions."

Presumably the entire c.45 minute delay can be attributed to downtown congestion.

[Kevin Balch]

11 hours ago, Michael Kalin said:

McWatters' bus was scheduled to arrive at Jefferson & Marsalis at 12:50PM (CE378), but did not arrive before C.T. Walker's 1:34PM radio message directing DPD to the library at that location. For details see William Weston's "Missing Radio Transmissions."

Presumably the entire c.45 minute delay can be attributed to downtown congestion.

Thanks! I actually found it in Weston’s earlier article “Marsalis Bus 1213”.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=48686#relPageId=3

 

I have my doubts about the “Car #10 Where are You?” sequence. I can believe he was at Gloco because there were 5 witnesses and the sighting was revealed only a 2 years after the assassination. But the Top 10 story wasn’t revealed until the early 1980s and the James Andrews story along with the woman who Tippit supposedly backed into were years later and second hand or anonymous. You would think the Top 10 story would be neighborhood lore.

”Car Number 10 Where are You” is like string theory. It was an interesting concept that showed promise but has not produced any testable experiments and yiekded no useful results.

Tippit did not appear to be a go-getter and I can’t see how he could have been involved in something that would require real-time communication, like some kind of radio, not asking to use a phone.

I think people are trying to fit a curve to bad data.

[Michael Kalin]

On 4/19/2024 at 11:12 PM, Kevin Balch said:

I have my doubts about the “Car #10 Where are You?” sequence.

The Top Ten incident meshes well with Mentzell's activity at the same time. Date of disclosure is simply one factor out of many to evaluate. Also, Tippit's psychology is not well understood despite endless speculation usually commencing with his DPD evaluation. Neither the rorschach test nor the act of holding cards by the edges was a reliable indicator of anything other than the tester's prejudices.

For more on Top Ten and related activity see page 4 of Jim Hargrove's "DPD Dispatcher Alterations and Tippit Murder" thread and Donald Willis' "Whaley was right: Neches and Beckley do intersect" thread.