Was Tippit at Lancaster and 8TH?

[James DiEugenio]

Dear Jim. 

 

I’m from the UK. Been following your stuff for a while and have been looking at the Tippit issue. 

There are basic error with DPD/WC transcripts of the 22 November radio traffic. 

There is now a version up of the tape from University of Virginia. I’m working through it. 

However, one immediate significant point. Tippit’s call at 12:54 that has been transcribed as “Lancaster and 8th” isn’t. It’s actually a very clear “Lansing and 8th”, then ‘be at large’. 

I’ve commented as Bosscat here my link at 37:30 goes right to it to.  

https://youtu.be/k1-CXd9qdIQ

Tippit’s English is saying “Lan-sin”. Rhymes with “Dancin’”. 

A Texan dropping a “g” is similar to some regional UK-English. He’s definitely not saying Lancaster. Southern American English is very ‘rhotic’ (emphasis on “r”s) it does not drop ‘r’. Queen’s UK-english is clipped and drops ‘r’ and Lancaster would be “Lancasta”. Tippit doesn’t say Lan-caster or Lancasta or anything like it. I don’t see how a Texan transcribing this could get it wrong by accident. 

Lansing Avenue is a short north to south minor road. It starts at E6th and only exists as a road to E9th, it then intersects as an alley with E10th two blocks east of E10th Patton, and without getting to Jefferson peters out into the east-west alley system. 

Lancaster in contrast is a long north south main road. The wrong Lancaster 8th transcript has people linking him coming from Gloco at Zang and ‘tearing’ down Lancaster speculating he was looking for Oswald on the Marsalis bus. However being at Lansing and 8th doesn’t fit that north-south movement. 

Lansing and 8th would either be a) an East<>West traverse b) an odd route to 10th c) a destination near one of the corners. 

I’d go for a destination. To note the name of the intersection of a minor road would require being stopped. He answers the call quickly enough to imply he’s stopped there. If he was driving along 8th I think he would say 8th and Lansing. 

If he was somewhere else and lying I don’t think he’d pick an obscure place to lie about. Unlike when he says “Bonnie View/Keist.”

Unless it’s a trigger phrase for someone else on the radio to pick up on. 

 

It could perhaps fit with Olsen’s odd job for the day tending a house on 8th. That would suggest a rendevous has occurred before the final rendevous at 1:07pm. 

[Charles Blackmon]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

 

 

It could perhaps fit with Olsen’s odd job for the day tending a house on 8th. That would suggest a rendevous has occurred before the final rendevous at 1:07pm. 

Is Olsen a female friend of Tippit?

[Ron Bulman]

56 minutes ago, Charles Blackmon said:

Is Olsen a female friend of Tippit?

I may be confused here but I think Olsen was another cop with a leg in a cast (?) guarding a private residence that afternoon (more to this story, if I'm right).

[Larry Hancock]

Harry Olsen was far from just another cop, he was close enough to Jack Ruby to have purportedly badly sprained his ankle "ice skating" with Ruby (on a date, with partners, unclear?) shortly before the assassination. That took him off duty but left him capable of doing guard duty at what was an abandoned estate that day - yet apparently walking several blocks to his girl friends house after hearing about the attack on the president.  Virtually everything about his activities on November 22 is questionable and he is actually one of the key figures pointing towards Ruby's possible use in bringing in DPD officers - including one motorcycle officer in the motorcade - into roles as unwitting accessories.  

I spend considerable detail on Olsen, his movements and his extremely suspicious behavior in Tipping Point...

 

[Ron Bulman]

 

31 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

Harry Olsen was far from just another cop, he was close enough to Jack Ruby to have purportedly badly sprained his ankle "ice skating" with Ruby (on a date, with partners, unclear?) shortly before the assassination. That took him off duty but left him capable of doing guard duty at what was an abandoned estate that day - yet apparently walking several blocks to his girl friends house after hearing about the attack on the president.  Virtually everything about his activities on November 22 is questionable and he is actually one of the key figures pointing towards Ruby's possible use in bringing in DPD officers - including one motorcycle officer in the motorcade - into roles as unwitting accessories.  

I spend considerable detail on Olsen, his movements and his extremely suspicious behavior in Tipping Point...

 

Thanks Larry.  I just looked in Tipping Point.  Olsen was "vague" about the location of the "dilapidated" estate he and another officer took turns guarding in relation to Eighth Street.  Maybe not far from Lansing?

[Ron Bulman]

This gets interesting looking at google maps.  It's 2-3 blocks straight down Lansing from 8th to 10th, a block and a half West to Patton where Tippit was shot.  Or, 2 1/2-3  blocks West on 8th to Patton, then 2 blocks South to 10th.  Three blocks East on 8th from Lansing to Ewing, then 3-4 blocks South on it to 11th, where Jack Ruby's apartment was.

If Tippit was hunting Oswald, as his dad told Joseph McBride another officer close to JD told him . . .

Where and what time was the guy in the (?) red thunderbird stopped by Tippit, he looked in the back seat/floorboard then took off without saying anything I  think.

[Larry Hancock]

The sequence should be in TP,  I think the car stop was after his call at the record store.  Which brings up the obvious question of what would lead him to think Oswald would be in the back seat of a car (suggesting an accomplice at least).  Its interesting that very early on LIFE magazine put in a map which explored the question of whether Oswald might actually have been on the way to Ruby's apartment before being diverted...other than that many people may not realize the proximity of all this in Oak Cliff.

[James DiEugenio]

Harry Olsen is, as Larry says, a really suspicious character.

Many people doubt his story about sentry duty, or perhaps he was exaggerating the so called "estate" he was at.  Because people cannot find such an estate.

His girlfriend worked for Ruby.  And Harry allegedly had a discussion with Ruby the night of JFK's murder.  Some people think this was done to inflame Ruby against Oswald.

[Larry Hancock]

Another option for the midnight dialog with Ruby may well have been to emphasize to him how deeply he had gotten his police connections in trouble and make it clear that it was up to him to get everyone associated with him out of same...or he would be the only one taking the fall, perhaps literally.

As it turns out it was possible to get a bit more detail on the estate and I put that in TP....another DPD officer also did guard duty there (you might ask yourself what was going at a place that was essentially said to be unoccupied without even a phone that would require that much security) and another of the officers associated with these connections was actually working security in the motorcade that day. Some here may remember that Jean Hill's police officer/motorcade rider told her that he was upset because after the murder it felt to him like he and his fellow officers were under some sort of suspicion. 

 

[Ron Bulman]

After re reading most of what is in Tipping Point and a little of that in Someone Would Have Talked, I thought I've read more somewhere.  Possibly Crossfire, Jim Marrs?  A half page, a quote of Ruby to the Warren Commission.  Into The Nightmare, Joseph McBride?  Bingo.

More later but relevant to this thread topic it mentions Dallas researchers Greg Lowery and Bill Pulte saying the "estate" was most likely a large older home used for high stakes gambling at 341 E 8th Street.  Curious I went to google maps street view, and from there down 8th to Lansing, and turned around.  From there, 200-300 (?) yards away you can see the yard of 341 8th.

Reading a little further Into The Nightmare it turns out Joe has been there.  Due in part to a rise in elevation, from 341 8th you can see the intersection and part of five other streets with 8th, from Patton to Lansing.  But not Lancaster, two blocks further East than Lansing.  Maybe an interesting viewpoint at that point and place in time.

[James DiEugenio]

Ok ROn, what do you think this means if TIppit was actually at Lansing then and not Lancaster.

[Bill Brown]

 

This whole thing is plain silly.

First, Tippit says he's at Lancaster and 8th.  He simply pronounced Lancaster and 8th like "Lankster & 8th".  All Tippit did was shorten Lancaster from three syllables to two.

Second, Lancaster and 8th is only two measly blocks from Lansing and 8th.  Am I to understand that whatever conspiratorial nonsense a moving patrol car could be involved in at Lansing & 8th could not happen just two simple blocks away at Lancaster and 8th?

Did you really think this through?

 

[James DiEugenio]

The poster replies:

It’s being rebutted by a “Bill Brown” who’s insisting it’s:-

 

1) been contracted to “Lankster”. 

 

When it hasn’t!  The whole point is that any element of “ster” is absent. 

[Mark Ulrik]

Pretty sure Bill is correct here. It's doesn't sound like "Lansing" to me either.

[Gerry Down]

I presume the dpd officers who transcribed the tape would be better qualified to interpret what Tippit said than any of us here. But I'm open to being corrected on that.