David Von Pein Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) Sandy, Who is this person wearing the plaid shirt as Oswald passes by him at City Hall on 11/22/63? Is it Billy Lovelady? Or somebody else? Edited October 16, 2023 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 It doesn't matter what Altgens version you use. The family on the left might show you what is wrong with the figure in the circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 On 10/16/2023 at 8:25 AM, Pat Speer said: Thanks, Sean. I knew this pocket stuff had been exposed as nonsense long ago, and right here on this forum. There is no pocket there. If there were, it would be in the same location as it is on the authentic shirt. That is to say, on the shirt seen in the 11/22/63 films (like the Martin film). Which it is not. In that old thread where we discussed the shirt at length, two people claimed they could see a pocket in the photo posted by Sean. Problem is, the location of the pocket as described by those two people didn't match. And neither matched the location of the pocket on the authentic shirt, seen in the films. I remember that even Thomas Graves admitted that the photo (posted by Sean here) has no pocket where it is supposed to be. He, being an in-the-closet LNer, couldn't accept the conspiratorial solution. So instead he claimed that Lovelady had removed the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: There is no pocket there. If there were, it would be in the same location as it is on the authentic shirt. That is to say, on the shirt seen in the 11/22/63 films (like the Martin film). Which it is not. In that old thread where we discussed the shirt at length, two people claimed they could see a pocket in the photo posted by Sean. Problem is, the location of the pocket as described by those two people didn't match. And neither matched the location of the pocket on the authentic shirt, seen in the films. I remember that even Thomas Graves admitted that the photo (posted by Sean here) has no pocket where it is supposed to be. He, being an in-the-closet LNer, couldn't accept the conspiratorial solution. So instead he claimed that Lovelady had removed the pocket. OMG. Please show us some clear images of a shirt with no pocket and contrast it with the shirt Lovelady later showed Groden, which had a pocket. P.S. IF you are able to demonstrate that the shirt later shown Groden was a different shirt than the one in the 11-22 photos, what would it demonstrate other than that Lovelady showed him the wrong shirt? I mean is it gonna fuel your suspicion that Oswald really was the guy in Altgens? Because you can't have it both ways. You can't say Oswald was both on the middle of the steps in the supposed Lovelady position in Altgens, and at the top of the steps in the Prayer Man position. Or can you? And if you can, is there any telling how many Oswalds are out there on those steps? Edited October 17, 2023 by Pat Speer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 On 10/16/2023 at 9:15 AM, Ron Ege said: And wasn't there a thread which posited that BL's plaid shirt, in which he posed for the picture, was, perhaps, remade from the same material as the alleged original? Was that the genesis of the pocket-no pocket discussion? Ron, Yes! That is the old thread I'm talking about. Wish I could find it. It has all the photos to compare pockets. There are only two possible reasons explaining the disappearance of the pocket. One is that Lovelady removed it. The other is that the cover-up artists -- for some reason -- had an identical shirt made by a seamstress. Which they gave to Lovelady to keep forever so he could give (fake) proof that he really did wear that shirt. Problem is, the seamstress didn't see the pocket. The pocket cannot be seen in most the frames in the 11/22/63 films. Since the high-quality Altgens 6 photo doesn't show Lovelady wearing a plaid shirt, I concluded that the guy the coverup artists thought was Lovelady in the Martin film, wasn't really Lovelady at all. And later had to fix their mistake. Which they did by giving Lovelady the (nearly) duplicate shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 On 10/16/2023 at 9:34 AM, Pat Speer said: A dozen years ago or so, right here on this forum, a couple of characters tried to resurrect the shirt confusion so they could claim it was Oswald on the steps all along, and that Lovelady's face was super-imposed on Oswald's body by the CIA, which had a top secret photo alteration lab in the parking lot by the TSBD. Just to be clear, what Pat describes here is before my time on the forum. I do believe that that person in Altgens 6 is Billy Lovelady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Sandy Larsen said: Just to be clear, what Pat describes here is before my time on the forum. I do believe that that person in Altgens 6 is Billy Lovelady. OK, so you think it's Lovelady. Well, then, why would "they" create a fake shirt, and entwine Lovelady into their master plot by pressuring him into claiming he'd worn a shirt he had not been wearing? Oh, wait, are you saying the man wearing a plaid shirt in other films and photos was NOT Lovelady? I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 On 10/16/2023 at 10:49 AM, Sean Coleman said: I think it’s him, I think I see a pocket and I think I see Lovelady & Shelley walking away to the rail yard highlighted by Gerda Dunkel… Plaid-ish shirt, unfortunate hair - Lovelady? Teddy boy quiff hair - Shelley? Nope. Lovelady was taller than Shelley. And the two split up later in the clip. Though I do believe that the shorter guy here is the same guy as the one seen in the Martin film. The one everybody thinks is Lovelady Sean, how do you explain the fact that in the high-quality copy of Altgens 6, there is no plaid pattern on Lovelady's sleeve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 On 10/16/2023 at 2:11 PM, David Von Pein said: Sandy, Who is this person wearing the plaid shirt as Oswald passes by him at City Hall on 11/22/63? Is it Billy Lovelady? Or somebody else? Somebody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 On 10/16/2023 at 2:11 PM, David Von Pein said: Thanks David. Here you can see that the guy in the plaid shirt has a spinal condition. Mild case of kyphosis, maybe. Lovelady didn't have that condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 57 minutes ago, Pat Speer said: Please show us some clear images of a shirt with no pocket and contrast it with the shirt Lovelady later showed Groden, which had a pocket. You found a little vertical crease in the Groden photo of the shirt and think it is a pocket. Do you think the other little creases are also pockets? Nevertheless, it doesn't matter. Because, as was shown on the old thread that I and Ron Ege alluded to, the pocket you found isn't in the correct location. (Yes, your "crease/pocket" was identified in that thread too.) 57 minutes ago, Pat Speer said: Because you can't have it both ways. You can't say Oswald was both on the middle of the steps in the supposed Lovelady position in Altgens, and at the top of the steps in the Prayer Man position. Or can you? What? I haven't so much as mentioned Oswald's name in this thread. 57 minutes ago, Pat Speer said: And if you can, is there any telling how many Oswalds are out there on those steps? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said: You found a little vertical crease in the Groden photo of the shirt and think it is a pocket. Do you think the other little creases are also pockets? Nevertheless, it doesn't matter. Because, as was shown on the old thread that I and Ron Ege alluded to, the pocket you found isn't in the correct location. (Yes, your "crease/pocket" was identified in that thread too.) What? I haven't so much as mentioned Oswald's name in this thread. ? OK. Let's see if I got this straight. You're claiming Lovelady IS in Altgens but that his shirt was not the shirt he ultimately claimed he'd been wearing. Correct? You're also claiming the other films and photos of a man appearing to be Lovelady are not of Lovelady, but of some other unidentified man wearing a shirt similar to the one Lovelady claimed he'd been wearing. Correct? And you're proposing that Lovelady was part of some plot to make it look like he was this man, but the plot went haywire and they forgot to put a pocket on the shirt Lovelady later showed Groden. Correct? Well, to what end? The only thing that makes any sense would be that Lovelady had a doppelgänger, who was somehow involved in the assassination. But if that's your theory, there should be other photos of Lovelady after the shooting, right? In which he is NOT wearing the plaid shirt. Correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 14 minutes ago, Pat Speer said: but of some other unidentified man wearing a shirt similar to the one Lovelady claimed he'd been wearing. Previously identified: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Chris Davidson said: Previously identified: What? Sandy is saying that it is Lovelady in Altgens, but that it is someone else in the other films, including the film in the police station. Well, who is this, if not Lovelady? Edited October 18, 2023 by Pat Speer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now