LHO in Mexico City? Morley Illuminates

[Jonathan Cohen]

This is yet further confirmation that Oswald was in fact in Mexico City, no matter how loudly the "all the evidence is fake" camp screams otherwise.

[Joseph Backes]

20 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

This is yet further confirmation that Oswald was in fact in Mexico City, no matter how loudly the "all the evidence is fake" camp screams otherwise.

It would be if the photos claiming to have been taken of LHO ever show up.  I agree with John Newman, it really doesn't matter if the real LHO was there or not.  He was impersonated in person, and on the phone.  This can be and has been proven.  Sylvia Duran was impersonated on the phone as well.  What matters is how the intel of this was handled, and why this odd event happened in the first place.  

[Jonathan Cohen]

42 minutes ago, Joseph Backes said:

What matters is how the intel of this was handled, and why this odd event happened in the first place.  

Agreed. Many people here seem to be incapable of accepting that Oswald could have been in Mexico City of his own volition while also being impersonated/toyed with by other entities.

[Joseph Backes]

Oswald might have been there in person. But, I have not seen anything rock solid to prove that the real guy was really there.  And that's a big problem.  All of it falls apart when examined. All of it. The bus story is an incomprehensible mess. There are a lot of FBI records on it.  Like the bus and cab story in Dealey Plaza I think it's total crap. If the real guy was there he did not get there by bus.  How did he get there? Don't know.

I think it had to have been by private plane. Then who flew him there? Don't know. I don't think he could possibly afford a commercial flight to Mexico City.  

[Benjamin Cole]

6 hours ago, Joseph Backes said:

Oswald might have been there in person. But, I have not seen anything rock solid to prove that the real guy was really there.  And that's a big problem.  All of it falls apart when examined. All of it. The bus story is an incomprehensible mess. There are a lot of FBI records on it.  Like the bus and cab story in Dealey Plaza I think it's total crap. If the real guy was there he did not get there by bus.  How did he get there? Don't know.

I think it had to have been by private plane. Then who flew him there? Don't know. I don't think he could possibly afford a commercial flight to Mexico City.  

Three KGB agents (including Valery Kostikov) attested, on the record and recorded and filmed, they met the real LHO in Mexico City in September. That seems rock solid. 

I agree with you, in that I suspect LHO was couriered to MC for the explicit purpose of meeting with Valery Kostikov. This was part of the biography build on LHO-Hidell. It appears LHO was impersonated while in MC. 

Why did three KBG agents meet with a wayward American tourist on a Saturday? They had been tipped off LHO was a US intel asset. The info was "leaked" to the trio. 

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/29782-lho-in-mexico-city-morley-illuminates/page/2/#comments

A little after one hour mark. 

This strongly suggests US intel was running LHO. 

 

 

 

[Mike Aitken]

10 hours ago, Joseph Backes said:

Oswald might have been there in person. But, I have not seen anything rock solid to prove that the real guy was really there.  And that's a big problem.  All of it falls apart when examined. All of it. The bus story is an incomprehensible mess. There are a lot of FBI records on it.  Like the bus and cab story in Dealey Plaza I think it's total crap. If the real guy was there he did not get there by bus.  How did he get there? Don't know.

I think it had to have been by private plane. Then who flew him there? Don't know. I don't think he could possibly afford a commercial flight to Mexico City.  

Also, the J. Edgar Hoover memo from just after the assassination, which stated that FBI agents had reviewed the audio tapes of Oswald’s embassy phone calls and that the voice on the tapes did not match the Oswald’s voice. (….and then just like so much other important evidence, the tapes disappear and the official explanation is that the tapes were re-used and recorded over 🤨).
 

Unless we get some kind of solid physical evidence, I don’t think we’ll ever know or reach a consensus one way or the other if Oswald was ever at the embassies in Mexico City.  

[Joseph Backes]

8 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Three KGB agents (including Valery Kostikov) attested, on the record and recorded and filmed, they met the real LHO in Mexico City in September. That seems rock solid. 

I agree with you, in that I suspect LHO was couriered to MC for the explicit purpose of meeting with Valery Kostikov. This was part of the biography build on LHO-Hidell. It appears LHO was impersonated while in MC. 

Why did three KBG agents meet with a wayward American tourist on a Saturday? They had been tipped off LHO was a US intel asset. The info was "leaked" to the trio. 

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/29782-lho-in-mexico-city-morley-illuminates/page/2/#comments

A little after one hour mark. 

This strongly suggests US intel was running LHO. 

 

 

 

Your link above, I think you meant to link to a podcast or maybe a YouTube video?

Joe

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Joseph Backes said:

Your link above, I think you meant to link to a podcast or maybe a YouTube video?

Joe

right

[Michael Griffith]

20 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Agreed. Many people here seem to be incapable of accepting that Oswald could have been in Mexico City of his own volition while also being impersonated/toyed with by other entities.

Now why in the world would Oswald have gone to Mexico City on his own initiative? 

The key giveaway is the fake Oswald call to the Soviet Embassy. We have abundant evidence that Oswald spoke Russian fluently, yet the fake Oswald who phoned the Soviet Embassy spoke atrocious, terrible Russian--we know this from the translator's own notes on the transcript. Clearly, that was not Oswald. 

This begs the question: If Oswald was a loner with no intel ties and no associates, why would anyone have bothered to impersonate him in Mexico City in a fake call to the Soviet Embassy and in fake visits to the Cuban Consulate?

[Jonathan Cohen]

15 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

Now why in the world would Oswald have gone to Mexico City on his own initiative? 

For the exact reason he said : to get visas to travel first to Cuba and then to Russia.

15 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

This begs the question: If Oswald was a loner with no intel ties and no associates, why would anyone have bothered to impersonate him in Mexico City in a fake call to the Soviet Embassy and in fake visits to the Cuban Consulate?

To frame him.

[Benjamin Cole]

35 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

For the exact reason he said : to get visas to travel first to Cuba and then to Russia.

To frame him.

Seems to me John Newman's work on LHO suggests LHO was a witting asset, which is what Tennent Bagley thought.  

Would anyone in US intel even know LHO was in Mexico, if LHO, a loner, just crossed the border by bus? This was all pre-internet. 

My guess is LHO was in MC on instructions and met with Kostikov on instructions. 

[Paul Brancato]

On 10/29/2023 at 10:16 PM, Michael Crane said:

Don't sing it,bring it.

If the CIA had the goods...they would have produced them.

 

On 10/30/2023 at 8:12 AM, Michaleen Kilroy said:

I think the point of Jeff’s post and of the family member he interviewed is that the CIA deliberately submitted the ‘mystery man’ photo who looked nothing like LHO to create confusion and divert attention away from what they were doing with Lee in MC.

For 60 years that obvious deception has gone unconfirmed by the CIA or the USG investigation bodies. The CIA had the photo of LHO - they chose not to release it and instead lie to investigators and by extension the public.

It’s also clear why they hold on to documents - they don’t want anyone involved in any way to be alive for questioning - in the matter of a presidential assassination.

But you know, just some anonymous nut shooting from a warehouse window…

Two points of view. I’ve always believed the first one, but I’m open to Mr. Kilroy’s idea. The question I have is since CIA was trying to incriminate Oswald, how would pictures of him entering or leaving either Cuban consulate or soviet embassy interfere with CIA agenda? I understand the general idea that CIA would not want to reveal operational interest in Oswald. They’ve done their best to deny it. How would submitting such pics of LHO compromise CIA? In your mind what was CIA doing with him in MC that they are trying to hide? 

[Joseph Backes]

Part of the problem with MC is we had phone taping operations on both the Soviet and Cuban consulates, meaning the CIA did.

The FBI also had their own separate taps.

Also, we had human intel in there, especially in the Cuban one.  

And we had many operations against the Cubans.

And then this guy Oswald shows up.  

Revealing true photographs of Oswald there, if any exist, would reveal the location of where the photos were taken.  They may also have other people in the photograph(s) and that's why we haven't seen any. 

Just speculating. 

So far, nothing objective exists that really puts the one and only LHO in MC, as far as I know. 

[Michaleen Kilroy]

1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

On 10/30/2023 at 8:12 AM, Michaleen Kilroy said:

Two points of view. I’ve always believed the first one, but I’m open to Mr. Kilroy’s idea. The question I have is since CIA was trying to incriminate Oswald, how would pictures of him entering or leaving either Cuban consulate or soviet embassy interfere with CIA agenda? I understand the general idea that CIA would not want to reveal operational interest in Oswald. They’ve done their best to deny it. How would submitting such pics of LHO compromise CIA? In your mind what was CIA doing with him in MC that they are trying to hide? 

Good questions, Paul. The CIA is obviously the only party who can answer them but they don’t seem too willing even after 60 years.

My first guess is reputation protection. A photo of LHO outside the embassy of our No. 1 adversary just weeks before the assassination would be terrible, maybe institution-destroying optics for the CIA in the immediate aftermath. And would raise many questions the American public that would not be easily answered.

The other is possibly LHO is with someone before he enters the embassy.

It’s all conjecture and that’s the way the CIA wants to keep it.

BTW, I’m not against the idea of Oswald being in MC AND being impersonated - at least on the phone.

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Michaleen Kilroy