New material uncovered! Were the Randles and Paines direct next door neighbours?

[Tony Krome]

The relevant material that I have uncovered has been passed on to a prominent researcher.

The material clearly shows that if you had of dialled BL3-8965 (the Randle number) in late 1961, the telephone at 2511 West 5th St in Irving, would have rung.

2511 West 5th (the so called "vacant" house in Nov 1963), was the house directly next door to the Paine house.

 

These are the facts we already know;

1. Linnie Mae Randle advised the FBI in March 1964, that she had known the Paines for about 5 years, which brings it back to 1959, the very same year that the Paines moved into 2515 West 5th St.

2. Linnie Mae Randle advised the Warren Commission in March 1964, that she used to live across the street from the Paines before moving to her then present address at 2439 West 5th St.

3. Alfred E. Randle (Linnie's father in law) purchased 2439 West 5th St in November 1962. Linnie and Bill made the repayments after moving in.

4. Back in 1960s, it was possible for a householder to transfer their telephone number to another location as long as it was within the same exchange, in this case BL3.

 

I'd be interested to see what fellow researchers here can contribute to this, cheers!

 

 

 

[Tom Gram]

I’ve been curious about the vacant house for a while, like who owned it in ‘63, who owned it previously, was it up for sale/who was trying to sell it, etc. but never found anything interesting. I posted a thread on ROKC a while back: 

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t2573-the-vacant-house

It just seems odd to me that the DPD, WC, FBI etc. wouldn’t investigate a vacant house at Oswald ground-zero. They at least should have searched it. For all they knew Oswald could’ve been sneaking out at night to go pray to a Castro shrine he set up in there or some crap. 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Tom Gram

[Tony Krome]

[Gerry Down]

1 hour ago, Tom Gram said:

For all they knew Oswald could’ve been sneaking out at night to go pray to a Castro shrine he set up in there or some crap. 

😀

[Tom Gram]

4 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Can you imagine hoards of police, FBI agents, Secret Service agents, and even Warren Commission personnel canvassing the neighborhood and going to and from the Paine home over the course of several months, seeing that house and thinking “Er, nobody actually lives there. It must be completely empty. We better just leave it alone”?

This was the investigation into the assassination of a sitting US President, not a stolen hamburger. The alleged assassin supposedly stored the murder weapon thirty f*****g feet away. The authorities could never find any ammo, rifle cleaning equipment, bag-making accessories, etc. etc. etc; but we’re supposed to believe that not one person ever thought to check a vacant f*****g house directly next door for evidence? No one else finds that just a little bit strange? 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Tom Gram

[Tony Krome]

1 minute ago, Tom Gram said:

Can you imagine hoards of police, FBI agents, Secret Service agents, and even Warren Commission personnel canvassing the neighborhood and going to and from the Paine home over the course of several months, seeing that house and thinking “Er, nobody actually lives there. It must be completely empty. We better just leave it alone”?

This was the investigation into the assassination of a sitting US President, not a stolen hamburger. The alleged assassin supposedly stored his rifle thirty f*****g feet away. The authorities could never find any ammo, rifle cleaning equipment, bag-making accessories, etc. etc. etc; but we’re supposed to believe that not one person ever thought to check a vacant f*****g house directly next door for evidence? No one else finds that just a little bit strange? 

Oh, I hear you alright. They left that house stand there untouched like it was filled with lepers.

Here's something more for you. The Paine address book has two notable entries. The neighbours to the west, the Roberts, was filled out completely, whereas the very next entry, the Randles, was totally blank where the address would be.

We all know what a fastidiuos keeper of records Ruth is, and the notebook shows the BL3-8965 Randle number. Neighbour Linnie knew of Ruth since 1959, and at least admits to meeting with Ruth about two years before March 1964, before she moved to 2439. So that would be early 1962. Let's just say that Ruth entered BL3-8965 in her notebook after that meeting, if she hadn't already done so years earlier. If she did, that can only mean that the Randles had the same phone number both at 2439 and before she moved.

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

This is really interesting.

The FBI never investigated that empty house Tom?

Not one report?

 

[Jean Ceulemans]

Deleted

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Jean Ceulemans

[Tom Gram]

3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

This is really interesting.

The FBI never investigated that empty house Tom?

Not one report?

 

Not one report. It is possible there is something on the house buried in the Dallas Field Office files, which are not available online, but I doubt it. That type of investigation should have been reported to FBI HQ, especially if there was an evidence search involved.

If something like that was really kept at the field office level in Dallas, that means it was deliberately left out of all of the compilation investigative reports from Gemberling, et al., which would be very, very strange. 

There are multiple examples in FBI files of adjacent vacant properties being used for surveillance, which is kind of interesting:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=89872#relPageId=7

[Tony Krome]

Update for this thread;

Miss Naomi Gabriel of Polk informed the FBI that the 1963 Irving Directory canvassing ran for the month of December 1962, and that the directory became available in April 1963. So that gives us a good idea about how they generally operate.

Ed Ledoux over at ROKC has found that the 1961 criss cross shows Robbie M Sharber living at 2511 West 5th. Information that I have is that Robbie M Sharber, by May 1962, had moved to Plano, and had a Plano phone number. When he moved I don't know, but it could have been as early as January 1961, and the 1961 directory would still have shown him at 2511.

The material I have showing BL3-8965 at 2511 West 5th is prior to December 1961. The 1962 criss cross is unfortunatly not available.

Interestingly, a researcher, I only know as Martha, found that Robbie M Sharber, was mentioned in the 1964 COLES directory as living at 2511 West 5th. So did he move back? Was he the owner of the property? Was he renting out 2511 in the intervening period?

****** update, Robbie M Sharber was still in PLANO as of JULY 1965, so the COLES directory info is in error ******

Ed Ledoux has Robert Cassel showing up at 2511 in the 1963 criss cross. We know that Alfred Randle purchased 2439 West 5th in November 1962, so if Cassel moved into 2511 in December 1962, he would show up in the 1963 criss cross.

To summarise the above, we don't know for sure who was occupying 2511 West 5th between January 1961 and November 1962. This is the time-frame which BL3-8965 exists at 2511.

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Tony Krome

[Paul Cummings]

Dallas County property search should have your answers

[Tony Krome]

12 minutes ago, Paul Cummings said:

Dallas County property search should have your answers

The Randles were effectively renting the house by making the repayments at 2439 West 5th since the father was the owner.

If the Randles were renting out properties prior to 2439, the County records may only show who owned 2511 West 5th. in this case, the records might show up as Sharber. Would be handy information for sure.

 

 

[Paul Cummings]

1 hour ago, Tony Krome said:

The Randles were effectively renting the house by making the repayments at 2439 West 5th since the father was the owner.

If the Randles were renting out properties prior to 2439, the County records may only show who owned 2511 West 5th. in this case, the records might show up as Sharber. Would be handy information for sure.

 

 

Who owned the property along with the buying and selling throughout the years should provide names.

[Tony Krome]

****** update, Robbie M Sharber was still at the same address in PLANO as of JULY 1965, so the COLES 1964 directory info is in error ******

So Sharber was known to be an occupant of 2511 West 5th St, next door to the Paines, in December 1960. After that, we don't know when he moved to Plano, but he was there by May 1962, and continued to live there through to at least July 1965.

 

[Tom Gram]

11 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

****** update, Robbie M Sharber was still at the same address in PLANO as of JULY 1965, so the COLES 1964 directory info is in error ******

So Sharber was known to be an occupant of 2511 West 5th St, next door to the Paines, in December 1960. After that, we don't know when he moved to Plano, but he was there by May 1962, and continued to live there through to at least July 1965.

 

Ed Ledoux found a Tom Norman listed as the occupant of 2511 in the ‘64 (Polk?) criss cross.

If the canvassing happened in December ‘63, does that suggest that Norman just casually decided to move in next door to the Paines right after the assassination? 

With a different occupant every year it does seem like it could’ve been a rental property, but who was renting it out? Sharber?

It seems a bit odd that the Coles directory would screw up and list Sharber if he had no connection to the house since ‘61 but the Polk directory would list Norman. 

Was the canvassing done via mail? Door to door? If someone only moved in in December ‘63, why the hell weren’t they interviewed?

How the heck would the FBI etc. know the house was completely vacant from Sept. through Nov. unless they looked it up somehow?

If the house was really vacant on 11/22, it should’ve been searched for evidence f*****g immediately by the DPD. Did someone tell them to leave it alone? 

Oswald was supposedly capable of double murder, but it was unthinkable that he could’ve broke into a house twenty feet away from the Paines’ back door? 

So many questions…