New material uncovered! Ryder lived opposite the Randles

[Tony Krome]

7 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Oswald wasn't framed by conspiracy theorist's.  That was done by others.  Thus a lone nutter theory.

haha, well played sir

[David Von Pein]

32 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Oswald wasn't framed by conspiracy theorists.

I never said (or even implied) that he was. What I said (with tongue in cheek) was this....

"I'm sure that many CTers, though, think it was merely a case of the Oswald Patsy Framers just being idiots and morons when they decided to plant an ARGENTINE MAUSER at the crime scene, even though those plotters had to know that the Oswald they were framing owned a MANNLICHER-CARCANO."

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Tony Krome]

4 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

And that same 6th-floor assassination weapon was ALSO described (at various times on Nov. 22 and 23) as a German Mauser, a 30-30 rifle, and a Japanese weapon (and possibly even more inaccurate descriptions).

What was the first model/make rifle description publicly described?

I believe "Argentine Mauser" was announced just over 2 hours from the time of the assassination..

[David Von Pein]

On 11/17/2023 at 12:31 AM, Tony Krome said:

What was the first model/make rifle description publicly described?

I don't recall. But you might be able to find an answer here:

http://jfk-assassination-as-it-happened.blogspot.com

Good luck.

P.S. -- The very first description of the rifle that was made by anybody was no doubt the 12:45 PM (CST) APB bulletin that was put out over the DPD radio --- "Attention all squads. The suspect from Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male about thirty, slender build, 5 feet 10 inches tall, 165 pounds, armed with what is thought to be a 30-caliber rifle. No further description at this time, or information. 12:45."

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Tony Krome]

44 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

I don't recall. But you might be able to find an answer here:

http://jfk-assassination-as-it-happened.blogspot.com

Good luck.

P.S. -- The very first description of the rifle that was made by anybody was no doubt the 12:45 PM (CST) APB bulletin that was put out over the DPD radio --- "Attention all squads. The suspect from Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male about thirty, slender build, 5 feet 10 inches tall, 165 pounds, armed with what is thought to be a 30-30 rifle. No further description at this time, or information. 12:45."

 

Unfortunately, 12:45 was before any rifle was found.

Lets see if any other member here can find an earlier make/model announcement before Argentine Mauser, and after the rifle was found.

I figure there was an approximate one hour window between when the rifle was found and the Argentine announcement.

 

[David Von Pein]

10 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

Unfortunately, 12:45 was before any rifle was found.

Yes, that's certainly true. The rifle was found at 1:22 PM.

 

10 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

I figure there was an approximate one hour window between when the rifle was found and the Argentine announcement.

But Tony, doesn't the Tom Alyea footage [below] convince you that a CARCANO rifle was plucked from those box stacks on the sixth floor, vs. it being an Argentine Mauser? If not, why not? Many gun "experts" have looked at this film (the Alyea Film) and have concluded that Lieutenant Day is unquestionably picking up a Carcano rifle off of the floor....

 

 

[Tony Krome]

27 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Many gun "experts"

My understanding is that there were gun experts on the 6th floor very soon after the rifle was found. The reporter on your video, Reiland, was told specifically Argentine Mauser. Was an Argentine Mauser a common rifle in Dallas at the time? 

So the whole of Texas is watching Reiland, and I imagine he's going to very accurate when he was asked by Watson, "exactly what type of gun". So I'm thinking he wasn't making stuff up, like Swedish Bazooka.

See the video you posted above, how close he is checking that rifle. Unless the guy had very poor eyesight, I'd imagine he would declare it says "Made Italy". I mean, there were more than a few curious people surrounding the found rifle. Hey, its an Italian made rifle guys!

So we go from Italy to Argentina, and Argentine is what I'm interested in here, because BEFORE the assassination, RYDER had Argentine rifle in his head. Not only that, he has a repair tag in his hand with OSWALD written on it, by RYDER himself., that he associated together with the Argentine rifle.

 

[Ron Bulman]

On 11/16/2023 at 9:10 PM, David Von Pein said:

I never said (or even implied) that he was. What I said (with tongue in cheek) was this....

"I'm sure that many CTers, though, think it was merely a case of the Oswald Patsy Framers just being idiots and morons when they decided to plant an ARGENTINE MAUSER at the crime scene, even though those plotters had to know that the Oswald they were framing owned a MANNLICHER-CARCANO."

 

Sorry David, I misconstrued your statement.  If you want to characterize the Oswald Patsy Framers as being idiots and morons far be it from me to argue. But I do in fact disagree.  To me the Framers of Oswald are people like Allen Dulles, James Jesus Angleton, David Altee Phillips, George Joannides, David Morales, maybe even Guy Bannister and Clay Shaw.  All intelligent, devious mem.  Some of the latter and more not knowing the intended end result until it happened or right before.

But I'm going to hang on to that phrase.  Even though it can be taken two ways.  Some might say we CT'ers frame him as a patsy.  Because he said so.  Because he was.  But who framed him as a patsy?

[Alan Ford]

On 11/17/2023 at 3:10 AM, David Von Pein said:

I never said (or even implied) that he was. What I said (with tongue in cheek) was this....

"I'm sure that many CTers, though, think it was merely a case of the Oswald Patsy Framers just being idiots and morons when they decided to plant an ARGENTINE MAUSER at the crime scene, even though those plotters had to know that the Oswald they were framing owned a MANNLICHER-CARCANO."

 

Those behind the assassination weren't framing Mr. Oswald as the or even a SHOOTER. That nonsense was invented by those tasked with implementing a post hoc cover-up premised on a truly ludicrous lone wolf scenario.

If Mr. Oswald was being implicated as a confederate (not shooter) in the planned event in Dealey Plaza, then it was with his full knowledge and cooperation.

The planned event was not an assassination.

And those planning this non-lethal event went out of their way to make it look like a team job---------not knowing that an actual assassination was going to happen.

This circumstance was to cause those 'investigating' authorities charged with the cover-up many, many headaches. And those headaches have been bequeathed to today's Warren Gullibles, who still can't come close to sealing the deal when it comes to putting Lone Nut LHO at that window at that time with that rifle!

👍

[Alan Ford]

On 11/17/2023 at 9:05 AM, Tony Krome said:

My understanding is that there were gun experts on the 6th floor very soon after the rifle was found. The reporter on your video, Reiland, was told specifically Argentine Mauser. Was an Argentine Mauser a common rifle in Dallas at the time? 

So the whole of Texas is watching Reiland, and I imagine he's going to very accurate when he was asked by Watson, "exactly what type of gun". So I'm thinking he wasn't making stuff up, like Swedish Bazooka.

See the video you posted above, how close he is checking that rifle. Unless the guy had very poor eyesight, I'd imagine he would declare it says "Made Italy". I mean, there were more than a few curious people surrounding the found rifle. Hey, its an Italian made rifle guys!

So we go from Italy to Argentina, and Argentine is what I'm interested in here, because BEFORE the assassination, RYDER had Argentine rifle in his head. Not only that, he has a repair tag in his hand with OSWALD written on it, by RYDER himself., that he associated together with the Argentine rifle.

 

Two things worth mentioning perhaps..............

1. ATF man Mr. Frank Ellsworth, who was in the TSBD during the search, insisted that a rifle was found on a floor OTHER THAN the sixth (he wavered between fourth and fifth)

2. The wording in this document suggests that Mr. Oswald was shown a Mauser by Captain Fritz:

[Sandy Larsen]

Suppose one of the shooters used an Argentine Mauser. That would explain a lot (Dial Ryder's story, Mauser being first announced). But why would the FBI want to hide that fact and instead go with the Carcano as the weapon? And how could they decide upon doing that so quickly?

 

[Tony Krome]

42 minutes ago, Alan Ford said:

Two things worth mentioning perhaps..............

1. ATF man Mr. Frank Ellsworth, who was in the TSBD during the search, insisted that a rifle was found on a floor OTHER THAN the sixth (he wavered between fourth and fifth)

2. The wording in this document suggests that Mr. Oswald was shown a Mauser by Captain Fritz:

Ellsworth, like others, may have got the floors mixed up. I like how Truly describes Caster as a salesman. Would have been so easy to name the guy. And yes, it was a 30-06 Sporterized Mauser.

[Alan Ford]

6 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

Ellsworth, like others, may have got the floors mixed up.

The problem is he insisted that a rifle was found on a lower floor than the floor on which he witnessed the shells being found 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Alan Ford

[Tony Krome]

5 minutes ago, Alan Ford said:

The problem is he insisted that a rifle was found on a lower floor than the floor on which he witnessed the shells being found 

Link? I'll check it out. 

[Alan Ford]

[Deleted]

Edited November 18, 2023 by Alan Ford