Bart Kamp's Lancer presentation

[Pat Speer]

32 minutes ago, Alan Ford said:

Good grief!

Agent Hosty clearly states what he heard Mr. Oswald state:

Clear sequence of events, written in situ, on the back of DPD affidavit paper, in the clearest of clear prose.

1. Mr. Oswald went to 2nd floor to get Coca Cola => Mr. Oswald got Coca Cola on 2nd floor

2. Mr. Oswald returned to 1st floor to eat lunch => Mr. Oswald ate lunch on 1st floor

3. Mr. Oswald then went outside to watch P. Parade => Mr. Oswald watched P. Parade.

Not complicated! And it explains at a stroke the glaring anomalies between, and the weasel language in, the official interrogation reports. 

The idea that an FBI Agent would drastically misunderstand what the suspect said about the single most important question----------his whereabouts at the time of the crime of which he stands accused----------is fanciful in the extreme.

But hey, gaslight away. Party like it's 2018. All you're establishing is that you have a curious blind spot when it comes to the LHO Out Front question.

Hilarious!!! You defend Hosty's honor by claiming YOUR interpretation of something he wrote and did not submit MUST be accurate, even though YOUR interpretation makes him an accessory after the fact for the murder of President John F. Kennedy. (FWIW, Hosty was one of the few Kennedy supporters in the FBI.)

[Pat Speer]

2 hours ago, Alan Ford said:

Re. 1)

I find your blind-faith position that the 'investigating' authorities would have been too squeamish to mess with any visual evidence proving Mr. Oswald's front-entrance alibi risibly naive.

Re. 2)

No one recalled (at least on the record) Mr. Oswald's leaving by the front door several minutes after the assassination, yet you believe he did so, yes?

Re. 3)

Already explained.

Oh my. There is NO front entrance alibi. Oswald NEVER said he was outside at the time of the shooting. He was asked if he was in the building and responded in a manner suggesting he was. 

As far as number 2, it's an open question as to how Oswald left the building. He may have left the building by the front. If this is so, I think he actually ran into Shelley, who was asked to guard the front after Baker and Truly ran into the building. Or he may have left the building by the back, as recently claimed by Frazier. 

[Alan Ford]

16 minutes ago, James Keane said:

Alan, I’m intrigued by your second paragraph here. What did Oswald think he was on the hook for other than firing shots?

Hello, Mr. Keane.

I believe Mr. Oswald was slated to carry out a 'pro-Castro' stunt of some description out front (just off the steps) just after the firing of shots. As I've outlined elsewhere (on the 'Those Front Steps' thread), the Darnell film shows Officer Marrion Baker racing towards a very odd little scene over by the mailboxes---------------

Mr. Oswald IMO thought he was on the hook as a confederate of the Marxists who supposedly had shot Pres. Kennedy.

[Roger Odisio]

45 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Not at all. We have what Oswald said, what Hosty heard, what Hosty later remembered, what Hosty wrote down, and then your interpretation of what he wrote down. 

Oswald could very well have said he went outside after the shooting, and Fritz may very well have asked a follow-up like out the front or out the back. To which Oswald said I wanted to see what was going on in the parade, so I went out front. We just don't know. We will never know. But the assumption Oswald told Fritz and Hosty he was outside DURING the shooting, and then never told anyone else, is really out there. It's desperate, IMO.  

I mean, think about it. The man knows his life is in danger. He's announced he's innocent. And he has been given a venue to speak to the public. So it only makes sense that he'd take advantage of the press circus and announce, whether in the hallway, or at the press conference, that he was actually outside at the time the shots were fired. He might then ask that anyone who could confirm he was outside at that time.and then ask that anyone who saw him outside come forward.

That he did neither of these things is troublesome, yes?

Pat,

This is about whether Oswald told Hosty and Fritz that he went out to watch the parade *at some point*.  He clearly did.  Whether it was when Kennedy passed the building or shortly thereafter (it couldn't have been too long after because the parade broke up soon after JFK passed the building and the shooting began), it doesn't matter.

Either version serves to destroy the WR claim that he was on the 6th floor shooting at Kennedy.  Which is what is important..

No, it doesn't make sense that Oswald should have explained his alibi to the jackals nipping at his heels in the hallway who were only interested in being the first to get a scoop.  He needed to first tell his alibi to a lawyer who, as an officer of the court, could investigate. 

In fact I would argue that he shouldn't have answered the question of his whereabouts at his first interrogation without a lawyer present.  Any lawyer would have advised that.  His answer only gave the cops a head start in trying to destroy his alibi. Such an answer may have helped him get a lawyer before they killed him.

Though I doubt that. They were intent on killing him and succeeded less than 2 days later..

 

 

[Alan Ford]

39 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Hilarious!!! You defend Hosty's honor by claiming YOUR interpretation of something he wrote and did not submit MUST be accurate, even though YOUR interpretation makes him an accessory after the fact for the murder of President John F. Kennedy. (FWIW, Hosty was one of the few Kennedy supporters in the FBI.)

"Then went outside to watch P. Parade"

My interpretation of these words: Mr. Oswald said he then went outside to watch the P. Parade

Your interpretation of these words: Mr. Oswald didn't say he then went outside to watch the P. Parade.

Keep digging, Mr. Speer

Edited December 8, 2023 by Alan Ford

[Alan Ford]

12 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Oh my. There is NO front entrance alibi. Oswald NEVER said he was outside at the time of the shooting. He was asked if he was in the building and responded in a manner suggesting he was. 

Already addressed, multiple times..........................

[Alan Ford]

25 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

As far as number 2, it's an open question as to how Oswald left the building. He may have left the building by the front. If this is so, I think he actually ran into Shelley, who was asked to guard the front after Baker and Truly ran into the building.

If so, then Mr. Shelley said not a word about this on the record. Right?

Well, why not?

Answer that question sensibly, and you have my answer for why anyone who might have noticed Mr. Oswald during the v. short time he was out on the front steps during the P. Parade would have said not a word about it on the record. Fear. Pressure. Intimidation.

BTW it wasn't Mr. Shelley who cleared Mr. Oswald at the front door, it was Mr. Truly. The incident was seen by Mr. Billy Lovelady, who told Mr. Jarman all about it. Off the record, of course.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Alan Ford

[Alan Ford]

15 minutes ago, Roger Odisio said:

In fact I would argue that he shouldn't have answered the question of his whereabouts at his first interrogation without a lawyer present.  Any lawyer would have advised that.  His answer only gave the cops a head start in trying to destroy his alibi.

100%. He told them exactly where he had stood in that doorway, and they got to work at once obliterating the fact from history. They even suppressed the fact that he had claimed to have gone "outside to watch P. Parade" after buying a Coca Cola in the second-floor lunchroom.

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Alan Ford said:

"Then went outside to watch P. Parade"

My interpretation of these words:  Mr. Oswald said he then went outside to watch the P. Parade.

[Pat Speer's] interpretation of these words:  Mr. Oswald didn't say he then went outside to watch the P. Parade.

 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Roger Odisio said:

Pat,

This is about whether Oswald told Hosty and Fritz that he went out to watch the parade *at some point*.  He clearly did.

 

Good luck reasoning with Pat.

 

[Tony Krome]

[Sandy Larsen]

8 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

 

 

I wonder who "we" is.

After going to the storage room, wasn't Oswald stopped by a policeman from exiting the building? And then Oswald directed someone to a phone? (Or the reverse of that ordering.)

I suppose that, conceivably, all of these could have occurred after Oswald's supposed second floor encounter with Officer Baker. (Which, BTW, I don't believe occurred.)

 

[Tony Krome]

16 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I wonder who "we" is.

Truly

[Miles Massicotte]

"Then went outside to watch P. Parade" is about as clear and unambiguous as it gets. These are contemporaneous notes. What other explaining needs to be done here. It doesn't mean that Oswald actualy was outside watching the parade, but it clearly means that Hosty recorded/recalled Oswald saying that. 

[Ron Bulman]

2 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Truly

Interesting.  The operations manager, Truly, and, the building manager Campbell.  Did Oswald come back in after being on the front steps to hide in the closet before leaving because he figured out, he was the patsy?