The Anonymous Phone Call to the Tippits of Connecticut

[John Kowalski]

On 3/2/2024 at 7:31 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

Please let me know how I can help with your efforts to locate Mrs. Tippit’s notes and/or descendants.  

Found a people search website that had possible telephone numbers for her daughter and granddaughters. Called some of these numbers today and some were disconnected. A few had voicemail so I left a message to call me back. Left a message with the probate court as well about obtaining a copy of her will. The will should have information about her daughter,granddaughters and other relatives that can be used to contact them. 

Did some Linkedin, Facebook and Twitter searches as well but did not find anything.

How far are you from Westport or do you know anyone who lives near there? Local contacts can expedite the search for her daughter and granddaughters.

Edited March 4 by John Kowalski

[Jim Hargrove]

John,

I left the East Coast just over 60 years ago and have lost track of everyone I ever knew there.  But I do recall the names of a number of people from school, and perhaps there's a slight possibility....

Do you have notes on Mrs. Tippit and her descendants you could email to me?  

 

[Geo Kozma]

On 2/20/2024 at 8:36 PM, Paul Jolliffe said:

Jim,

Ask Geo if any of the cartoons in "Circus Maximus" could be seen as anti-communist (or, conversely, as pro-communist).

with (officially) no connection to her infamous husband. 

 

Hi Paul, I think I anwed to Jim, but maybe it was in private - in 63 it wa not "cool" to be pro-communist. the cartoons re all very abstract and exisenciaist - ke a new yorker cartoon...with no politics.

 

 

 

 

I think maybe my non native English may cause my posts simply not to be read. 

 

 

Which is okay. I just came a few weeks ago.  And I am maybe not at the right place.

After all I say that the Tippit call contains public record infos. Not eyewitness infos.

 

Edited March 20 by Geo Kozma

[Geo Kozma]

yes, as i have written to you...but maybe  will start to write here now, because now I trust this place more...yes since 1952 there was in NYC a Hungarian "Kultura" bookshop and after 57 it wass mostly CORVINA they sold.

 

 

 

Edited March 20 by Geo Kozma
To make it clearer

[Jim Hargrove]

2 hours ago, Geo Kozma said:

yes since 1952 there was in NYC a Hungarian "Kutura" bookshop and after 57 it wass mostly CORVINA they sold.

Thanks, Geo!  To me, this means we have to consider the possibility, if Marina’s story is true, that Oswald himself purchased “Circus Maximus” in the U.S., not only that it may have been sent to him.   Whichever situation is true, if he really possessed the book at the time of his arrest, it just adds more credibility to the entire anonymous phone call saga.

[Paul Jolliffe]

2 hours ago, Geo Kozma said:

Hi Paul, I think I anwed to Jim, but maybe it was in private - in 63 it wa not "cool2 to be pro-communist. the cartoons re all very abstract and exisenciaist - ke a new yorker cartoon...with no politics.

 

I have sveral times mentioned that in the Jewish Archives 8like jewishgen.com today) even then anyone could find the 300 Oswald families with spouses - and that yes, one such item had a GARDSH spouse. So we know Oswald had jewish relatives - other had Kohn or Klein and Rubin and Weil and Stern and Heller and Neumann  Herz Epstein Levin  Heine Freund Grünwald Meyer  Cardosh and Keller  (and a lot  - hundreds - of non-Jewish others)

These are public records. I am sure the FBI and CIA knew /as they were surely not lazy to go to a rabbi at the central Jewish Archives  to ask about them)  as much about Oswald Senior. (Of course there exist thousands of non Jewish Oswalds too..and a Jewish fatherr name with a non jewish mother is not an officially Jewish person. 

And each name has thousands of same-name mates - also non-Jewish ones -  who are not "family" because  originally the names were limited  . in order to recognize jews but it got blurred later by Nationalzation - Hungarization, Czechization etc - so the family lines  got LOST (except in rabbi families...similar to non-Jewish Aristocrats...) 

 

i also have already shared that the Weisntock FAmily tree has a Gissinger spouse...

Now this is enough for the former boss  (A. Dulles) of the young interpreter Kissinger  (but  since 1958 a celeb strategist at RAnd/Pntagon ) to send an anonymous phone call about the family " relationship" of real commie leaders Gardosh  (a KGB asset) and Weinstock - in order to stop and hide this kind of speculations (as due to the abstract Jewish namess they do not lead to real  family connections....Not to mention that even real brothers of a criminal may still stay innocent.

and GArdosh worked at the CORVINA press...

I think maybe my non native English may cause my posts simply not to be read. 

Or maybe unconsciously we (I am half Jewish so I am "we" in both groups) forget at once if I hear any proofs of Oswald having an "Uncle" in hungary at CORVINA. 

 

No one has asked me - a rabbi assistant in Budapest with a parent who worked at CORVINA - a n y t h i n g at all.  Except Paul Jolliffe now, thanks, Paul I think i found this Kaján book in your post on an 2019 note a few weeks ago which has prompted me to come here. (And yes I do exchnge private email messages with some of the members...I was too cautious I think.)

...but i suppose that here everyone has one or two very important new information (as an insight) and they must repeat it again and again (until they get lost like this "Moynihan" guy)

---So now I  plan to look back to my previous posts to see if I did or did not say all this till now...(But I did share it to Jim Hargrove  and maybe I asked him to keep it from the forum as yet...but yesterday my law expert friend told me I can say anything as these are all publicly documented facts which i am shaing about. )

Which is okay. I just came a few weeks ago.  And I am maybe not at the right place. After all I say that the Tippit calle contains public record infos. Not eyewitness infos.  And I say that only Dulles and Kissinger had INTEREST to suppress the Tippit Call and similar "infos" that are NOT leading anywhere. (If there are 500 000 Mr SMITHs  - or  RUBENS etc - you cannot use that as a "lead" in a crime investigation.)

Geo,

Thank you for responding.

However, I doubt that the little refugee boy in Yorkville in New York City in the 1940's had the birth name "Oswald." I believe it would be a remarkable and highly unlikely coincidence if that little refugee boy was named "Oswald" from birth. We don't know what his birth name was, and honestly, neither do you. No one knows. 

Jim Hargrove and I (and others) think it is much more likely that the little boy in NYC in the 1940's was given the name "Oswald" when he arrived in the United States sometime in the 1940's because of his physical resemblance to another little boy in Texas who really was named "Lee Harvey Oswald." This Texas LHO had no family or genetic relation to the NYC "Oswald". 

You and I agree that the Tippit caller (Elizabeth Bentley) believed there was some connection between Emil Gardos and/or Louis Weinstock and the little NYC boy. She may (MAY) even have believed that Gardos and/or Weinstock was the little NYC boy's genetic "father" or "uncle". (Although please note that she did NOT specifically state that in the call, as far as we can tell.)

We think she was wrong - whatever the relationship between Gardos and/or Weinstock (and/or Fred Blair), we don't have any evidence that either Emil Gardos or Fred Blair or Louis Weinstock was actually the little NYC boy's genetic father. And also please remember that she (Elizabeth Bentley) knew the little boy in the 1940's as "Oswald" - he already had that name when she met him. Otherwise, she never could have been so certain fifteen years later that the man accused of killing the president was the same little boy with whom she briefly interacted back in the 1940's!

We believe that some combination of those men (or one of their close associates) were acting instead as a surrogate or foster father to the little NYC boy for a bit in the 1940's. 

In short, we think it likely that some facet of a U.S. Intelligence agency had already noted the physical resemblance between the little NYC boy and the real LHO in Texas, gave him the new name "Oswald", and then placed the little NYC boy with someone in Yorkville (Gardos and/or Blair and/or Weinstock and/or one of their close associates) by the time the anonymous caller (Elizabeth Bentley) in the 1940's met or saw our little NYC boy in the company of at least one of these men.

So, while your work detailing the backgrounds of the names "Gardos" and "Oswald" is fascinating, there is no reason to think that the little boy in NYC really was born into a European family with one of those names. 

Again, we don't know who the little boy was, but the fact that Emil Gardos left him behind in NYC, never to see him again when Gardos left for Hungary in the late 1940's is powerful evidence that the little boy was NOT a blood relative of Gardos. (Or Blair.) And we have zero evidence that Louis Weinstock ever interacted in any meaningful way with that little boy, so Weinstock - who did remain in the USA for years -  almost certainly was NOT a blood relative of the little boy in NYC either. 

[John Kowalski]

On 3/2/2024 at 7:31 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

I think a program encompassing two Lee Harvey Oswalds could have started even before the creation of the CIA. 

 

 

When the program was started, do you think that there may have been other young boys who were brought into into it? Given that this was a long term program, the possibility of something happening to either Lee or Harvey before they could be sent abroad could have prompted them to find other young boys who looked similar and who could participate in the same program.

[Jim Hargrove]

John,

It’s just conjecture, but my bet would be there were a number of other similar programs set up, some perhaps developed around identical twins, and the pairs would be activated on an opportunistic basis.  Just a guess. John A. found a book indicating that Cuba used twins as spies. Patricio and Antonio De LaGuardia, identical twin brothers, were Castro's top intelligence agents for a time, at least according to the source.

Also, I wanted to thank you again for sending all the research material on the Tippits of Connecticut.  I had no idea Tina was such a prolific screenwriter!  Thanks again!

[Jim Hargrove]

22 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

You and I agree that the Tippit caller (Elizabeth Bentley) believed there was some connection between Emil Gardos and/or Louis Weinstock and the little NYC boy. She may (MAY) even have believed that Gardos and/or Weinstock was the little NYC boy's genetic "father" or "uncle". (Although please note that she did NOT specifically state that in the call, as far as we can tell.)

Paul,

I think the anonymous caller (Elizabeth Bentley, probably) believed that Emil Gardos was Oswald’s father and Fred Blair was his uncle.  Your skepticism about this surprises me, so if you’ll bear with me, let’s go over it once more.

The FBI report said, “THE WOMAN SAID SHE KNEW OSWALD-S FATHER AND UNCLE WHO WERE HUNGARIANS AND COMMUNISTS. THE WOMAN CONTINUED THAT OSWALD-S FATHER AND UNCLE HAD LIVED AT SEVENTY SEVENTH AND SECOND AVENUE, YORKVILLE, NYC, THAT WHILE LIVING THERE BOTH WERE UNEMPLOYED, GOT THEIR MONEY FROM COMMUNISTS AND SPENT ALL THERE TIME IN COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES.”  She then mentions the name “Emile Kardos” (surely Emil Gardos) and talks about a brother in law (Fred Blair fits perfectly).

Are any of us aware of another Hungarian Communist team of brothers-in-laws active in Yorkville during the era?  And note that the caller says “both were unemployed, got their money from communists, and spent all there [sic] time in communist activities.”   This fits beautifully with the Milwaukee Journal’s coverage of the Gardos hearing: “But at the trial the government showed that during his entire residence in the United States his sole work was as an organizer and editor for the Communist party.”

[Paul Jolliffe]

1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Paul,

I think the anonymous caller (Elizabeth Bentley, probably) believed that Emil Gardos was Oswald’s father and Fred Blair was his uncle.  Your skepticism about this surprises me, so if you’ll bear with me, let’s go over it once more.

The FBI report said, “THE WOMAN SAID SHE KNEW OSWALD-S FATHER AND UNCLE WHO WERE HUNGARIANS AND COMMUNISTS. THE WOMAN CONTINUED THAT OSWALD-S FATHER AND UNCLE HAD LIVED AT SEVENTY SEVENTH AND SECOND AVENUE, YORKVILLE, NYC, THAT WHILE LIVING THERE BOTH WERE UNEMPLOYED, GOT THEIR MONEY FROM COMMUNISTS AND SPENT ALL THERE TIME IN COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES.”  She then mentions the name “Emile Kardos” (surely Emil Gardos) and talks about a brother in law (Fred Blair fits perfectly).

Are any of us aware of another Hungarian Communist team of brothers-in-laws active in Yorkville during the era?  And note that the caller says “both were unemployed, got their money from communists, and spent all there [sic] time in communist activities.”   This fits beautifully with the Milwaukee Journal’s coverage of the Gardos hearing: “But at the trial the government showed that during his entire residence in the United States his sole work was as an organizer and editor for the Communist party.”

Jim,

You and I agree that she surely meant to somehow connect Emil Gardos and Fred Blair) with our little "Oswald." And you and I agree that those men did indeed have some connection to our "Oswald." 

But did she necessarily mean they were "family" to "Oswald"?

Probably, but . . . 

My only slight hesitation is that in addition to the (Emil Gardos and Fred Blair), she also dropped the name (Louis Weinstock).

We all agree that Weinstock and Gardos were not closely related as far as we can tell at this point. Weinstock does not fit the profile of "uncle". 

So, since she (Bentley) did not use the name "Weinstock" in the context of "uncle", can we be 100% certain that she meant to use (Gardos and Blair) in that context?

I guess I agree it is likely, but far from certain, that (Bentley) believed that Gardos and Blair were the custodial "father and uncle" of little "Oswald." 

So, to answer your question, yes, it is at least possible to me that there were two other men close to "Oswald' in Yorkville, men with whom (Bentley) interacted and believed to be the "father and uncle" of "Oswald." 

(Bentley) probably meant to link (Gardos and Blair) as "Oswald's" "father and uncle", but given the addition of the name "Weinstock", I don't think we can conclude that with certainty yet. 

I hope to have a more complete analysis of Bentley's contacts in NYC within a couple of weeks.  

[Sandy Larsen]

2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Paul,

I think the anonymous caller (Elizabeth Bentley, probably) believed that Emil Gardos was Oswald’s father and Fred Blair was his uncle.  Your skepticism about this surprises me, so if you’ll bear with me, let’s go over it once more.

The FBI report said, “THE WOMAN SAID SHE KNEW OSWALD-S FATHER AND UNCLE WHO WERE HUNGARIANS AND COMMUNISTS. THE WOMAN CONTINUED THAT OSWALD-S FATHER AND UNCLE HAD LIVED AT SEVENTY SEVENTH AND SECOND AVENUE, YORKVILLE, NYC, THAT WHILE LIVING THERE BOTH WERE UNEMPLOYED, GOT THEIR MONEY FROM COMMUNISTS AND SPENT ALL THERE TIME IN COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES.”  She then mentions the name “Emile Kardos” (surely Emil Gardos) and talks about a brother in law (Fred Blair fits perfectly).

Are any of us aware of another Hungarian Communist team of brothers-in-laws active in Yorkville during the era?  And note that the caller says “both were unemployed, got their money from communists, and spent all there [sic] time in communist activities.”   This fits beautifully with the Milwaukee Journal’s coverage of the Gardos hearing: “But at the trial the government showed that during his entire residence in the United States his sole work was as an organizer and editor for the Communist party.”

 

Beside what you said, Jim, I have to wonder why the woman would name names, and yet not mention the name of the man she was calling about, the (foster) father.

 

[Paul Jolliffe]

29 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Beside what you said, Jim, I have to wonder why the woman would name names, and yet not mention the name of the man she was calling about, the (foster) father.

 

Sandy,

She may have mentioned other names, but we only have the FBI's version of whatever Mrs. Jack D. Tippit told them. (It is at least possible that the FBI omitted from the record other names.)

If John Kowalski is ever successful at unearthing a copy of Tina Tippit Brown's own notes about that call (or calls, apparently), then maybe other names may surface.

Or not. 

It's also very plausible that (Bentley) really believed that Gardos and Blair were "Oswald's" Hungarian father and uncle.

(Has anyone ever found a NYC address at anytime for Fred Blair? It is entirely plausible that Blair lived at 217 E. 86th with Grace and Emil Gardos, but left no record. He was probably there, but has anyone found any evidence of his presence in NYC?)

[Sandy Larsen]

40 minutes ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

She may have mentioned other names, but we only have the FBI's version of whatever Mrs. Jack D. Tippit told them. (It is at least possible that the FBI omitted from the record other names.)

 

Paul,

I don't know if I buy the idea that the FBI altered the name and the magazine title in order keep the lid on what the document was about. To me it seems more likely that Mrs. Tippit just heard those names incorrectly.

Though I do buy the idea that those reading the document knew who the people and the magazine really were, and so deep-sixed the document.

 

[Paul Jolliffe]

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Paul,

I don't know if I buy the idea that the FBI altered the name and the magazine title in order keep the lid on what the document was about. To me it seems more likely that Mrs. Tippit just heard those names incorrectly.

Though I do buy the idea that those reading the document knew who the people and the magazine really were, and so deep-sixed the document.

 

Fair enough. I doubt we'll ever be certain as to why the name appeared as "Emile Kardos", although it is interesting that there really were two men named "Emil Kardos" in Yorkville at the time. They were a father in his 60's and his son in his 30's. There is no reason to think those men had anything to do with anything related to this. 

It seems at least possible to me that someone at the FBI deliberately garbled the name as "Kardos" to put any later investigation off the trail. 

But, as I wrote a moment ago, it really doesn't matter much.

We know who the anonymous caller (Bentley) meant: she meant Emil Gardos and Fred Blair. 

[Jim Hargrove]

Mrs. Jack Tippit (Christina Tippit) was a sophisticated woman. According to an obituary of her John K. found, she was a ”well-loved bon vivant… a fashion model… TV guest star… [and] started her writing career at the age of 19 while still attending Texas Tech University, seeing her comedic pieces published in /The New Yorker/ and performed on /The Tonight Show/, and going on to develop material for performers including Imogene Coca, George Gobel, Hermione Gingold and Virginia Graham. Over her long career, she authored screenplays, television projects and worked on TV’s /As the World Turns/.

I’ll bet this woman was no slouch taking notes and conducting off-the-cuff interviews. When hearing a name that may have sounded like “Emile Kardos,” or anything similar, she might well have asked, “How do you spell that?” Knowing a little bit more about Mrs. Tippit makes it seem all the more urgent to somehow help John K. find those notes!