The Anonymous Phone Call to the Tippits of Connecticut

[Matt Cloud]

9 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Matt,

The topic of this thread is the 1963 call to the Tippits in Connecticut about "Lee Harvey Oswald."

Please post unrelated items and comments in relevant threads. Create new threads if necessary.

 

It's not unrelated.  Norwalk, and CT, are central, based on a number of persons who resided there, in terms of engineering Cold War policy.  It is directly related to this call, and to this thread, .  Luce, McMahons, Bushes, Tippits, others.  You specifically claimed not to see how McMahon fit in.  My comment about the mole was in answer to that and, as I indicated, more from me would be forthcoming explaining the connection.  But you have dismissed that outright, before hearing the connection, as unrelated without having been shown the connection.    

Just now, Sandy Larsen said:

 

This should be in its own thread, titled something like "How the Oswald Project was used to protect the identity of Popov's mole.," or "How the Oswald Project was designed to protect the identity of Popov's mole."

This thread is just about the woman who called the Tippits of Connecticut, and the people named in the call.

 

Fair enough -- and agreed, indeed already anticipated, which is why I was really only inclined here to hint at it.  But since you asked a direct question I responded directly. 

 And I recognize my Twitter insertions may have broken up a legible continuity here, but I wasn't prepared for the file upload limitations, which I have already met. 

Not sure what to do about that ...

[Jim Hargrove]

It’s been awhile, so let’s review the basic facts of this thread.  Referencing the FBI report in my original post in this thread….

On 11/30/1963 an unknown woman made a phone call answered by Mrs. Jack D. Tippit of Westport Connecticut.  (Forum member John Kowalski spoke a few years ago to the daughter of Mrs. Tippit, who said there were actually several calls from the anonymous woman and that her mother, Mrs. Tippit, had made written notes about the calls that, at least then, still existed.)

According to the report, the anonymous caller “said she knew Oswald’s father and uncle who were Hungarians and communists.”  She added, “Oswald’s father and uncle had lived at Seventy Seventh and Second Ave. in Yorkville, NYC,” and that “both were unemployed, got all their money from communists and spent all their time in communist activities.” The anonymous caller said she would be killed if her call(s) became public knowledge.

The FBI report misidentified the “Hungarian father” as “Emile Kardos,” who, we have long suspected, was actually Emil Gardos, a Hungarian immigrant deported for communist activities in 1949. While still in the U.S. Emil married Grace A. Blair, whose brother was Fred Blair, long time chairman of the Wisconsin Communist Party and probably the “uncle” and “brother-in-law” referenced by the anonymous caller.  

Forum member Paul Jolliffe has made an excellent case that the anonymous caller was most likely Elizabeth Bentley, a communist spy active in the U.S. for at least a dozen years before becoming a “professional anti-communist” working with the FBI.  Forum member Matt Cloud pointed out that, just as she apparently feared, Bentley died just a few days after her 11/30/63 call.

As if this all isn’t interesting enough, a few years ago Paul Jolliffe pointed out here that, according to Heritage Auctions, in 1963  Lee Harvey Oswald had, among his possession, the following two books.

Neither book was among the “Oswald possessions” as listed in detail by the Dallas Police and, greatly expanded, by the FBI.  According to Heritage Auctions,  the two books “were included in a cleanout of personal papers requested by Marina Oswald following the assassination and given to her personal lawyer. Accompanied by a letter of provenance.” “Circus Maximus” was published in 1963 by the Hungarian publisher Corvina Press.  

Geo Kozma has pointed out that in the same year, Corvina published another book,  “Kárpáti rapszódia (Carpathian Rhapsody).” According to Goodreads.com:  “The book was translated into English by Grace Blair Gardos, the American wife of Hungarian Emil Gardos.” Which leaves us with the following stunning coincidence:

Grace Blair Gardos, the American wife of Oswald’s “Hungarian father,” was associated with Corvina Press, publisher of a book allegedly found in LHO’s possessions.  Both books were published in 1963, indicating that “Circus Maximus,” at least, had to be sent somehow to Oswald in 1963.  Why?

1.  Was the book sent as an innocent gift to LHO to remind him of his time with the Gardos family?

2.  Or was it, and probably the “Communist Manifesto,” sent as part of a frame-up of the Russian-speaking Oswald?

If the latter, why was “Circus Maximus” included, perhaps implicating Emil and Grace Gardos?  “Communist Manifesto” alone would have done the trick! 

It should also be noted that this limited biographical data does not fit at all into the Official History of the Lee Harvey Oswald® born in New Orleans to Robert Edward Lee Oswald and Marguerite Frances Claverie.  John A. and I  believe it fits far better with the Russian-speaking Oswald who, as a probable WWII war orphan, would have needed foster care at all times in the 1940s.
 

[Matt Cloud]

49 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

 

Grace Blair Gardos, the American wife of Oswald’s “Hungarian father,” was associated with Corvina Press, publisher of a book allegedly found in LHO’s possessions.  Both books were published in 1963, indicating that “Circus Maximus,” at least, had to be sent somehow to Oswald in 1963.  Why?

 

Grace Blair Gardos being the wife of Oswald's Hungarian father is not, as yet, established as fact.  It was a claim made apparently by Bentley in her call to the Tippets.  She may have been correct; she may have been close-to correct; she may have been incorrect.  Her claim however is certainly provocative and worthy of further analysis, at last.

Where does the notion that "Circus Maximus" had to be sent to Oswald come from?  Was it not available in the U.S. in 1963?  Could Oswald not have purchased/acquired the book on his own accord?  

[Matt Cloud]

And to add for clarification purposes here: There are two "sides" to the story surrounding the anonymous phone call to the Tippits in Connecticut.  There's the Hungarian / Eastern European / Russian / Gardos - Oswald side on the one hand (from Bentley) and on the other hand (from the Tippits) there's the Connecticut / Texas / American - Oswald side.  What's so fascinating about the call, and all of its portent, is that both of these sides seemingly merge, or diverge, "converge" may be the better word, depending on point of reference (1948, say, versus 1963). One side of the story may open the "Harvey" side; the other may open the "Lee" side.  And both sides need to be analyzed.

Edited February 28 by Matt Cloud

[Ron Bulman]

200 posts in this thread now.  100 of them by new member Matt as this is the only thread I know of he's posted in.

[Jim Hargrove]

14 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

200 posts in this thread now.  100 of them by new member Matt as this is the only thread I know of he's posted in.

You are right on the mark, Ron!  It is almost pointless for anyone to post anything in this thread as long as Matt's endless screeds replace everything else within minutes.

MATT -- Patrick Moynihan was one of the few personal heroes I can count among American politicians.  From what I know about him, I LOVED that man!  But you are OBVIOUSLY abusing this thread, and I'm going to complain to the mods about you asap!

[Sandy Larsen]

On 2/25/2024 at 10:45 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

Matt,

The topic of this thread is the 1963 call to the Tippits in Connecticut about "Lee Harvey Oswald."

Please post unrelated items and comments in relevant threads. Create new threads if necessary.

 

Matt didn't heed my request. So I have created a thread dedicated to his posts and to posts of those who wish to respond:

Matt Cloud's compilation of Harvey & Lee related coincidences and some theories explaining them

I have moved most of his posts there.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

Matt,

If you wish to respond to posts in this thread, please, no bloviating. Keep it on topic. Mere coincidences are not "on topic."

 

[Jim Hargrove]

There is little chance that American-born Lee Harvey Oswald was the boy referred to by the anonymous caller. During the 1940s this Oswald lived in Louisiana and Texas. There is no indication that this Oswald set foot in New York City, much less lived there, until 1952, three years after Emil Gardos was deported.  During the mid to late 1940s, the Russian-speaking Oswald lived largely under the radar, his whereabouts, with just a few exceptions, largely unknown.  

[Paul Jolliffe]

On 2/29/2024 at 8:23 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

There is little chance that American-born Lee Harvey Oswald was the boy referred to by the anonymous caller. During the 1940s this Oswald lived in Louisiana and Texas. There is no indication that this Oswald set foot in New York City, much less lived there, until 1952, three years after Emil Gardos was deported.  During the mid to late 1940s, the Russian-speaking Oswald lived largely under the radar, his whereabouts, with just a few exceptions, largely unknown.  

Jim,

For yeats I assumed that the anonymous woman caller (Bentley) had stated outright that "Oswald's" Hungarian father was "Emile Kardos" (Emil Gardos) and that the his uncle was (Fred Blair). 

However, a close re-reading of the FBI document merely implies that, but does not quite say it categorically.

David Joseph argued this point years ago, and I have come to suspect he might (may) have been on to something: it is possible that the caller (Bentley) did NOT allege that Gardos and Blair were our "Oswald's" father/uncle?

Yes, she mentioned them (Gardos directly, Blair indirectly) so she obviously connected them somehow with our "Oswald" in Yorkville in the 1940's. 

But maybe she didn't overtly state that Gardos/Blair were "Oswald's" "Hungarian father and uncle", Communists who got all their money from communist activities . . . "

Maybe she meant yet other (unnamed) men.

After all, she (Bentley) also mentioned "Weinstock" of "Women's World", whom we've now identified as Louis Weinstock of "Workers World", yet as far as anyone knows, there is no familial connection between either Gardos and/or Blair and Louis Weinstock. 

So if she (Bentley) did not connect connect the name "Weinstock" with the phrase "Oswald's" Hungarian father and uncle", then how certain can we be that she meant to connect the names "Gardos" and (presumably Blair) with the phrase "Hungarian father and uncle"?

The men (Gardos and Blair) and Weinstock were important to her- she mentioned them in close proximity to her claim that she "knew 'Oswald's' Hungarian father and uncle". These men did indeed play some role in young "Oswald's" life in Yorkville, according to her. 

But whether she meant to imply (as we have inferred) that the "Hungarian father and uncle" were necessarily (Gardos and Blair) might not be so. 

She might have meant they were only (mentors or friends? of "Oswald's" "Hungarian father and uncle."

Might.

Either way, our "Oswald" probably had a copy of Tibor Kajan's "Circus Maximus" cartoon book because it likely had some connection to Grace Gardos, a woman he remembered from Yorkville in the 1940's. 

[Jim Hargrove]

17 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Jim,

For yeats I assumed that the anonymous woman caller (Bentley) had stated outright that "Oswald's" Hungarian father was "Emile Kardos" (Emil Gardos) and that the his uncle was (Fred Blair). 

However, a close re-reading of the FBI document merely implies that, but does not quite say it categorically.

David Joseph argued this point years ago, and I have come to suspect he might (may) have been on to something: it is possible that the caller (Bentley) did NOT allege that Gardos and Blair were our "Oswald's" father/uncle?

Yes, she mentioned them (Gardos directly, Blair indirectly) so she obviously connected them somehow with our "Oswald" in Yorkville in the 1940's. 

But maybe she didn't overtly state that Gardos/Blair were "Oswald's" "Hungarian father and uncle", Communists who got all their money from communist activities . . . "

Maybe she meant yet other (unnamed) men.

After all, she (Bentley) also mentioned "Weinstock" of "Women's World", whom we've now identified as Louis Weinstock of "Workers World", yet as far as anyone knows, there is no familial connection between either Gardos and/or Blair and Louis Weinstock. 

So if she (Bentley) did not connect connect the name "Weinstock" with the phrase "Oswald's" Hungarian father and uncle", then how certain can we be that she meant to connect the names "Gardos" and (presumably Blair) with the phrase "Hungarian father and uncle"?

The men (Gardos and Blair) and Weinstock were important to her- she mentioned them in close proximity to her claim that she "knew 'Oswald's' Hungarian father and uncle". These men did indeed play some role in young "Oswald's" life in Yorkville, according to her. 

But whether she meant to imply (as we have inferred) that the "Hungarian father and uncle" were necessarily (Gardos and Blair) might not be so. 

She might have meant they were only (mentors or friends? of "Oswald's" "Hungarian father and uncle."

Might.

Either way, our "Oswald" probably had a copy of Tibor Kajan's "Circus Maximus" cartoon book because it likely had some connection to Grace Gardos, a woman he remembered from Yorkville in the 1940's. 

Hi Paul,

You raise, once more, an interesting question.  I had forgotten about an old Milwaukee newspaper article that indicates that Gardos moved around quite a bit while in the U.S., including residencies in in New York, Milwaukee, Chicago, Ohio, and New Jersey.  Please take a look at the last four paragraphs in the left column of the 1949 Milwaukee Journal article below.

My memory isn’t getting any better as I get older.  Did we ever establish solid evidence that Gardos lived in NYC during a time that would make sense for him being a guardian of Harvey Oswald?  This would just about have to be during the 1940s.  Providing such generalized time frames, the article doesn’t preclude NYC stays for Gardos during the 1940s, but it doesn’t explicitly support such a timeline either. 

In other respects, the identification of Gardos (and Blair) by the anonymous caller seems to make sense.  Just how many Hungarian communist men with a known communist brother-in-law (“uncle” to young Harvey Oswald) would have been active in the Yorkville area of NYC during this era?  Manhattan is a densely populated island, but its  Yorkville neighborhood is really quite small, consisting of perhaps a couple of dozen blocks bordering the east side of Central Park.

According to the report, the woman said, “OSWALD-S FATHER AND UNCLE HAD LIVED AT SEVENTY SEVENTH AND SECOND AVENUE, YORKVILLE, NYC, THAT WHILE LIVING THERE BOTH WERE UNEMPLOYED, GOT THEIR MONEY FROM COMMUNISTS AND SPENT ALL THERE TIME IN COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES.”  This matches nicely with this statement from the Milwaukee Journal article: “But at the trial the government showed that during his entire residence in the United States his sole work was as an organizer and editor for the Communist party.”

The FBI report also indicated that the caller said “Kardos [presumably Gardos] is the head of the communists,”  which is a stretch, but from his known biography, he clearly had at least some leadership roles in the party.  And finally….

There is the Hungarian printing of Circus Maximus, a book translated by the wife of Emil Gardos [Geo Kozma believes she must have had help from her husband] in 1963, and allegedly in Oswald’s possession in 1963. If it was a legitimate possession of LHO, it is another strong connection between Gardos and Oswald.  But I’m not sure I believe it.  As far a I know, we have only Marina’s claim that it was in Oswald’s possession.  Perhaps it was yet another miracle find  by Ruth Paine.  What do you think?

[John Kowalski]

On 2/25/2024 at 6:17 PM, John Kowalski said:

Called one of her granddaughters today, she did not answer so I left a message. Will keep you updated.

Jim:

Have not heard back from her so I will call another person.

Have contact information for 2 of of 5 people I want to contact. Will need help locating the other 3 people.

 

 

 

 

 

[John Kowalski]

Does anyone know why Communists would be taking care of Oswald, given that he was been prepared for some future role in an intelligence operation?

[Sandy Larsen]

28 minutes ago, John Kowalski said:

Does anyone know why Communists would be taking care of Oswald, given that he was been prepared for some future role in an intelligence operation?

 

Pure speculation...

Maybe Oswald was removed from the custody of Emil Gardos during one of his legal battles. Maybe when he was deported. FBI didn't know what to do with him, but CIA said hmm, we have some ideas for a Russian speaking kid with no known relatives!

P.S. Jim, great find in that newspaper article, about Gardos never having a job. Perfect match for Oswald's "father" described in the FBI report!

The more I learn about and think about the FBI report, and related information, the more convinced I'm becoming that you guys have explained the FBI report accurately.

The only thing that bugs me about all this is why the boy would have been called Lee Harvey Oswald while he was still being cared for by Gardos. Or, if that wasn't the case, how Elizabeth Bentley knew that the boy was the same person as the later Lee Harvey Oswald.

 

[Paul Jolliffe]

1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Hi Paul,

You raise, once more, an interesting question.  I had forgotten about an old Milwaukee newspaper article that indicates that Gardos moved around quite a bit while in the U.S., including residencies in in New York, Milwaukee, Chicago, Ohio, and New Jersey.  Please take a look at the last four paragraphs in the left column of the 1949 Milwaukee Journal article below.

My memory isn’t getting any better as I get older.  Did we ever establish solid evidence that Gardos lived in NYC during a time that would make sense for him being a guardian of Harvey Oswald?  This would just about have to be during the 1940s.  Providing such generalized time frames, the article doesn’t preclude NYC stays for Gardos during the 1940s, but it doesn’t explicitly support such a timeline either. 

In other respects, the identification of Gardos (and Blair) by the anonymous caller seems to make sense.  Just how many Hungarian communist men with a known communist brother-in-law (“uncle” to young Harvey Oswald) would have been active in the Yorkville area of NYC during this era?  Manhattan is a densely populated island, but its  Yorkville neighborhood is really quite small, consisting of perhaps a couple of dozen blocks bordering the east side of Central Park.

According to the report, the woman said, “OSWALD-S FATHER AND UNCLE HAD LIVED AT SEVENTY SEVENTH AND SECOND AVENUE, YORKVILLE, NYC, THAT WHILE LIVING THERE BOTH WERE UNEMPLOYED, GOT THEIR MONEY FROM COMMUNISTS AND SPENT ALL THERE TIME IN COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES.”  This matches nicely with this statement from the Milwaukee Journal article: “But at the trial the government showed that during his entire residence in the United States his sole work was as an organizer and editor for the Communist party.”

The FBI report also indicated that the caller said “Kardos [presumably Gardos] is the head of the communists,”  which is a stretch, but from his known biography, he clearly had at least some leadership roles in the party.  And finally….

There is the Hungarian printing of Circus Maximus, a book translated by the wife of Emil Gardos [Geo Kozma believes she must have had help from her husband] in 1963, and allegedly in Oswald’s possession in 1963. If it was a legitimate possession of LHO, it is another strong connection between Gardos and Oswald.  But I’m not sure I believe it.  As far a I know, we have only Marina’s claim that it was in Oswald’s possession.  Perhaps it was yet another miracle find  by Ruth Paine.  What do you think?

Jim,

We know for a fact that Grace Gardos was living in Yorkville in the mid 1940's. John Butler provided these screenshots in 2019:

• Jim, here is my reply from 2019 to the late John Butler after he posted these screenshots:

John B.,

Good. That's exactly what I  (Paul Jolliffe) wanted to see.

OK it would appear from the address 217 E. 86th Street in NYC (which appears on Google Maps below to be largely unchanged since the 1940's), that there is an elementary school nearby with a very interesting history - The Ramaz School. 

From school's website:

" In the 1930's, the Upper East Side neighborhood known as Yorkville was an area where "Jewishness" was toned down; Jews of the area did not want to attract attention. In fact, in 1936, following the Depression and during the rise of Hitlerism, the pro-Nazi German-American Bund held street rallies up and down Third Avenue . . .

As darkness fell upon European Jewry, the light of European children began to fill the halls of the Ramaz School. Jews from France, Belgium, Germany and Holland were flocking to the United States. Their children came from the Lycées of France, the Tachkemoni of Antwerp and a myriad of other schools.

The refugee population especially concerned Rabbi Joseph H. Lookstein. It was apparent to him that if the Ramaz School did not exist, these children would have difficulty finding a suitable Jewish school. By 1938, in order to ensure adequate space for these students, the Ramaz School rented several rooms in the Central Jewish Institute building at 125 East 85th Street. Seventy-one boys and girls enrolled, creating the need to lease the entire building as the school's new quarters.

The Ramaz School was becoming widely recognized as an institution known for its academic excellence. The Teacher's Institute of Yeshiva University began sending student teachers to observe and fulfill their student-teaching requirements. In 1942, the school received its provisional charter from the Board of Regents of the State of New York. Enrollment by this time had risen to one hundred and twenty students."

 

John Butler, we know from the testimony of Nelson Delgado that "Oswald" apparently knew at least some Yiddish! Whether or not "Oswald" was indeed the biological son of the Gardos parents (and we now in 2024 know for a fact he was NOT their biological son), we are certain there must have been some connection between them, however brief. If there are any surviving elementary school records for either little John Gardos (or "Oswald"), the Ramaz School archives (if they exist) are a good place to start..

https://www.ramaz.org/about-ramaz/history 

Here is what 217 E. 86th Street looks like today - except for the street level storefronts, the building itself looks unchanged for decades:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7784686,-73.9530716,3a,75y,49.16h,104.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sET4Z9Mb_MJ4TVoPOVy1g6Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

So today, in 2024, we can confidently conclude that whether or not Emil and Grace Gardos were officially our "Oswald's" foster parents for a bit in the mid 1940's in Yorkville, they were living in the heart of a neighborhood in which a recent refugee from Eastern Europe (very possibly with a Jewish background) might have been placed in the immediate aftermath of World War II. 

We can also confidently state that Elizabeth Bentley would have been very familiar with the activities of communists living in this area at that time. 

As to "Circus Maximus", I am not aware that Grace Gardos translated that one. Do we have evidence for that? I know she did the translation for another book from the same publisher in Hungary at the same time, but are we certain of her connection to "Circus Maximus" itself?

Can anyone here get ahold of a copy of the 1962 edition of "Circus Maximus"? (The ones available on Amazon are in German, which in itself raises some interesting questions.)