Another Armstrong blunder.

[Karl Kinaski]

 

I fear that Armstrong never read Robert Oswald's 1967 book about his brother. (The book title is LEE, A PORTRAIT OF LEE HARVEY OSWALD. )

Otherwise Armstrong would not have committed the following blunder on page 208/209 of his book HARVEY AND LEE , which alone is a death blow to the crazy premise of his book of two Oswalds and two Marguerites. Armstrong says, quote: 

Robert Oswald had been living at 7313 Davenport in Fort Worth since April23, 1957, yet there is no indication that "Marguerite" ever contacted Robert to inform him of her  "accident"  nor did she receive a visit, fi nancial aid, assistance, or any  help from 
Robert.  Nor is there  any  indication  that  Lee Oswald  ever  visited  the  short,  dumpy, heavy-set "Marguerite Oswald" imposter at any  time during his military leaves. In fact, there no indication that either  Robert or Lee helped  "Marguerite"  in any  way  follow­ ing  her  "accident,"  either  fi nancially,  by  escorting  her to  a doctor's  offi ce,  filling  out 
worker's compensation claims, etc. QUESTION: Why should Lee or Robert  Oswald visit or help  the short , dumpy, heavy­
set  "Margueri te  Oswald. P"  This woman was not their mother."

Close quote

All of the abhove Armstrong claims are false. 

 This is, what Robert Robert Oswald wrote in 1967 about the month, when Lee was in Forth Worth from Nov 19th 1958 to December 22 1958. 

Quote
He (Lee) came to Fort Worth by bus, as I remember it. He stayed 
with Mother at her apartment, (at Bristol Street) but he spent a lot of time with us at our house, 7313 Davenport Street. We went out to the 
farm at least twice and did a little hunting for squirrels and 
rabbits with our .22 rifles. 
Close Quote

Quote
We (Robert Oswald, Vada his wife and his brother Lee who was with them most of the time) did know, that she(mother)had been shopping in the Fair store, but only because Vada had been shopping in the store one day saw her at the candy counter. Then, the day of the accident (5. Dec 1958 Lee Oswald was still in Fort Worth, stayed with Marguerite but was most of the time with his brother Robert, his wife and the little child) she(Marguerite Oswald) telephoned us to say that she was disabled and could not continue working. After that (December 5th 1958) she called Vada often, just to talk, but she never called me at the office. 
Close quote

summary: 
While Armstrong claims, quote H&L: 
Why should Lee or Robert  Oswald visit or help  the short , dumpy, heavy­ set  "Marguerite  Oswald. P"  This woman was not their mother."
close quote

Robert Oswald told us that:

-- Lee came to Fort Worth stays with his mother (3006 Bristol Road)
-- Lee spent most of the time with Robert and Vada and their little child. (at Davenport Street)
-- Robert, Vada and Lee knew about the Dec 5th 1958  accident of their mother the day it happened.
-- After the accident Marguerite where Lee stayed often called Vada just to talk ... 
All of them: Lee, Robert Vada and Marguerite were in rather close contact after Dec 5th 1963.
-- Marguerite Oswald was in fact their mother and Lee stayed with her in the month of his leave from the military.
-- Therefore it was NOT some other Marguerite to which the Oswald brothers had no contact between November 19th and Dec 22th 1958, because, like Armstrong claims, this woman at Bristol ROAD WAS NOT THEIR MOTHER ... she was. She was. 

-- That's how the two artificial Marguerite Oswalds of Armstrong became one person again, when you read the Robert Oswald account of Lee Harvey Oswald's month in Fort Worth in 1958. 

This alone is a death blow to Armstrong crazy theorie of two Oswalds and two Marguerites ... there was just one. Robert Oswald told us so. 

Edited February 16 by Karl Kinaski

[Pete Mellor]

My son bought me a copy of Armstrong's 'Harvey & Lee'.  Overall the biography of LHO is well covered.  But, I've never swallowed the two mothers stuff or the two little boys groomed for clandestine work for CIA.  Too near the twilight zone.

[Jim Hargrove]

Robert Oswald was clearly part of the Oswald Project. For example, on our website HarveyandLee.net, Dr. James Norwood writes:

In his book Lee: A Portrait of Lee Harvey Oswald by His Brother, Robert Oswald published a number of photographs allegedly from his private collection.  One of them was an image of Harvey Oswald holding his niece outside Robert’s home in Fort Worth.  Robert asserts that the photo was taken just before Oswald’s so-called defection to the Soviet Union in fall 1959.  With this photo and the Thanksgiving Day home movie, Robert conveniently left for posterity a visual set of bookends of the period before and after the defection.  That visual record with Harvey photographed in close proximity to Robert’s home was essential in maintaining the façade of the identity of Harvey Oswald, the Russian-speaking immigrant, as the American-born Lee Oswald and a member of the Oswald family just prior to departing and then after returning from the Soviet Union.  That was precisely how Robert Oswald used the images in his book.

John A. read (and still owns) a copy of Robert’s book, but we just don’t believe many of the details in it. Robert was an essential, and carefully used, participant in the Oswald Project.

Mr. Kinaski just renewed another anti-Harvey and Lee screed HERE, but note how easily his assertions were debunked right in the thread he brought up again.

[Sandy Larsen]

3 hours ago, Karl Kinaski said:

I fear that Armstrong never read Robert Oswald's 1967 book about his brother. (The book title is LEE, A PORTRAIT OF LEE HARVEY OSWALD. )

 

Yes, Armstrong has read Robert Oswald's book. He says so in the same part of his book where he discusses "Marguerite's" accident.

 

3 hours ago, Karl Kinaski said:

Otherwise Armstrong would not have committed the following blunder on page 208/209 of his book HARVEY AND LEE , ...

 

Everybody makes a mistake now and then.

 

3 hours ago, Karl Kinaski said:

...which alone is a death blow to the crazy premise of his book of two Oswalds and two Marguerites.

 

Death blow? LOL, I don't think so. He and Jim Hargrove have a ton of evidence supporting the Harvey & Lee theory.

 

3 hours ago, Karl Kinaski said:

Armstrong says, quote: 

Robert Oswald had been living at 7313 Davenport in Fort Worth since April23, 1957, yet there is no indication that "Marguerite" ever contacted Robert to inform him of her  "accident"  nor did she receive a visit, fi nancial aid, assistance, or any  help from 
Robert.  Nor is there  any  indication  that  Lee Oswald  ever  visited  the  short,  dumpy, heavy-set "Marguerite Oswald" imposter at any  time during his military leaves. In fact, there no indication that either  Robert or Lee helped  "Marguerite"  in any  way  follow­ ing  her  "accident,"  either  fi nancially,  by  escorting  her to  a doctor's  offi ce,  filling  out 
worker's compensation claims, etc. QUESTION: Why should Lee or Robert  Oswald visit or help  the short , dumpy, heavy­
set  "Margueri te  Oswald. P"  This woman was not their mother."

Close quote

 

Here's a summary of Armstrong's claims:

There is no indication that:

1. The Marguerite imposter contacted Robert about her accident.
2. Robert visited the Marguerite imposter over the accident.
3. Robert provided financial assistance or any other help to the Marguerite imposter.
4. LEE visited the Marguerite imposter during his military leave.
5. LEE provided  financial assistance or any other help to the Marguerite imposter.

 

3 hours ago, Karl Kinaski said:

All of the above Armstrong claims are false. 

 

That's what I'm going to check.

 

3 hours ago, Karl Kinaski said:

This is, what Robert Robert Oswald wrote in 1967 about the month, when Lee was in Forth Worth from Nov 19th 1958 to December 22 1958. 

Quote
He (Lee) came to Fort Worth by bus, as I remember it. He stayed 
with Mother at her apartment, (at Bristol Street) but he spent a lot of time with us at our house, 7313 Davenport Street. We went out to the 
farm at least twice and did a little hunting for squirrels and 
rabbits with our .22 rifles. 
Close Quote

Quote
We (Robert Oswald, Vada his wife and his brother Lee who was with them most of the time) did know, that she(mother)had been shopping in the Fair store, but only because Vada had been shopping in the store one day saw her at the candy counter. Then, the day of the accident (5. Dec 1958 Lee Oswald was still in Forth Worth, stayed with Maguerite but was most of the time with his brother Robert, his wife and the little child) she(Marguerite Oswald) telephoned us to say that she was disabled and could not continue working. After that (December 5th 1958) she called Vada often, just to talk, but she never called me at the office. 
Close quote

 

I will rewrite what Robert wrote, but without Karl's commentary:

He [LEE] came to Fort Worth by bus, as I remember it. He stayed with Mother [the real Marguerite] at her apartment, but he spent a lot of time with us at our house, 7313 Davenport Street. We went out to the farm at least twice and did a little hunting for squirrels and  rabbits with our .22 rifles. 

....

We [Robert & wife Vada] did know that she [the Marguerite imposter] had been shopping [working] in the Fair store, but only because Vada had been shopping in the store one day saw her at the candy counter. Then, the day of the accident, she [the Marguerite imposter) telephoned us to say that she was disabled and could not continue working. After that she called Vada often, just to talk, but she never called me at the office. 

(Karl mistyped "working" as "shopping.")

 

Karl said that EVERYTHING Armstrong claimed is wrong. Here again is what Armstrong claimed:

There is no indication that:

1. The Marguerite imposter contacted Robert about her accident.
2. Robert visited the Marguerite imposter over the accident.
3. Robert provided financial assistance or any other help to the Marguerite imposter.
4. LEE visited the Marguerite imposter during his military leave.
5. LEE provided  financial assistance or any other help to the Marguerite imposter.

 

Now, here is the verdict for each Armstrong claim:

1. Armstrong is wrong. The Marguerite imposter did indeed contact Robert about her accident.
2. Karl is wrong.
3. Karl is wrong.
4. Karl is wrong.
5. Karl is wrong.

 

I don't want to waste any more time with Karl's claim.

I will record here where Armstrong said the two Marguerites were working when the Marguerite imposter had her accident:

From the testimony of John Pic and Robert Oswald we know that the tall, nice-looking Marguerite Oswald worked at Cox's Department Store from October, 1958 (John Pic's visit) thru April, 1959 (Robert Oswald's visit).

During this time the short, dumpy, heavyset "Marguerite" imposter began work at the King Candy [Counter at the Fair Ridglea Store] in August, was injured on December 5, and was unemployed thru the summer of 1959.

 

And where Armstrong said the two Marguerites were living when the Marguerite imposter had her accident:

The real Marguerite Oswald (tall, nice-looking, well dressed) had been living in apartment #3 at 3830. W. 6th for the past two years...

...the short, dumpy, heavy-set "Marguerite Oswald" imposter lived alone in the small duplex at 3006 Bristol Road in Fort Worth.

 

[Karl Kinaski]

 

 

@Sandy Larson.  Just read Robert Oswald's book C 1967 "Lee, Portrait of Lee Harvey Oswald by his brother."  Otherwise it makes no sense to discuss Armstrongs blunders.

 

@Hargrove: If Robert Oswald was part of the Oswald project, why he claimed in his book, that he, his wife Vada and his brother Lee where all in contact with each other from 19th to Dec 22. 1958, while you and Armstrong claim, there was no contact, because the woman living at Bristol Road was a woman unknown to Robert, Lee and Vada. Which is BS ... 

 Robert Oswald in his 1967 book, "Lee, portrait of Lee Harvey Oswald by his brother" tells us:

-- Lee came to Fort Worth stays with his mother (3006 Bristol Road)
-- Lee spent most of the time with Robert and Vada and their little child. (at Davenport Street)
-- Robert, Vada and Lee knew about the Dec 5th 1958  accident of their mother the day it happened.
-- After the accident Marguerite where Lee stayed often called Vada just to talk ... 
All of them: Lee, Robert Vada and Marguerite were in rather close contact after Dec 5th 1963.
-- Marguerite Oswald was in fact their mother and Lee stayed with her in the month of his leave from the military in 1958.
-- Therefore it was NOT some other Marguerite to which the Oswald brothers had no contact between November 19th and Dec 22th 1958, because. like Armstrong claims, this woman at Bristol Road WAS NOT THEIR MOTHER ... she was. 

(Larsen: Not my claims but Robert Oswalds ...)

 Sandy Larsen and Hargrove: Do your homework and read the book. Otherwise it makes not much sense to discuss this particular Armstrong blunder regarding Oswalds stay in Fort Worth Nov 19. to Dec 22. 1958. 

 

KK

 

[Sandy Larsen]

10 minutes ago, Karl Kinaski said:

Sandy Larsen and Hargrove: Do your homework and read the book. Otherwise it makes not much sense to discuss this particular Armstrong blunder regarding Oswalds stay in Fort Worth Nov 19. to Dec 22. 1958

 

Hey Karl,

You quoted what you thought were the pertinent paragraphs out of Robert Oswald's book to prove your point, and you failed in most cases. If you want to prove Armstrong made a mistake, the burden is on you, not me.

 

[Karl Kinaski]

  Armstrong made a mistake because he claims something, witch is in direct contradiction with the eyewitness account of Robert Oswald which he provided in his book of 1967: LEE, PORTRAIT OF LEE HARVEY OSWALD BY HIS BROTHER. 

It is not some point of mine. Robert Oswald proves Armstrong wrong. If you choose to believe Armstrong over Robert Oswald regarding the month of Nov 19th to Dec 22 1958 when Lee Harvey Oswald was in Fort Worth ... than good luck. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16 by Karl Kinaski

[Jim Hargrove]

Which is easily explained by understanding that Robert Oswald was a part of the Oswald Project.

[Karl Kinaski]

This  is, what Robert Oswald has to say on the evening of Nov. 25.11.1963 when
interviewed by SS Agent Howard at SIX FLAGS HOTEL  
It was his brother Lee Harvey Oswald  who Robert Lee Oswald  saw in September 1959 (they
were rabbit hunting together for  last time), and it was his brother Lee Harvey Oswald he
picked up at Love Field/Dallas at June 14th 1962 ... and Lee harvey Oswald was acc. to his
brother ... THE BOY I HAD ALWAYS KNOWN ... 

But Armstrong knew better: Lee left his brother in September 1959, he claims, and some Lee- impostor
HARVEY came back in 1962 ... of course ...LOL
 
 

Quote

  Quote HARVEY AND LEE 
 
It was Lee Oswald who visited Robert (Oswald his brother)and Vada in September ...
  September 1959  
Armstrong writes on page 249 of H&L () 
On page 395 of H&L Armstrong he writes: 
June 14  Ar rival  in Fort  Worth 
On June 14 at 7 30 pm Robert Oswald picked up Marina,  HARVEY (not Roberts brother),
and June at Love Field in  Dallas. 

 
 That is the Armstrong-Hargrove phantasie.

An that is, what Robert Lee Oswald has to say on the evening of Nov. 25.11.1963 when
interviewed by SS Agent Howard at SIX FLAGS HOTEL  )
 

Quote

Question, by J.M Howard US Secret Service: During this time (when Robert last saw his
younger brother, September 1959 and the day he picked up his younger brother at Dallas
Love Field nearly three years later) ... during this time did you notice any change in him as
you remembered him before he went to Russia? 
Answer, Robert Lee Oswald: No, Sir I did not. HE APPEARED TO ME AT THAT TIME TO BE
THE BOY I HAVE ALWAYS KNOW. 
(...)
Question, SS agent Howard: Did he (LHO  ever mention to you(after LHOs return to the
US  that he was distress or upset about anything that had happened to him to the point
where he might become violent?
Answer Robert Lee Oswald: No, Sir, I did not. AND I RESTATE MY FEELINGS AT THE TIME
TAT HE RETURNED TO THE UNITED STATES IN THE YEAR 1962 TO ME HE WAS THE BOY
I HAD ALWAYS KNOWN, OLDER, BUT STILL THE SAME ... 

 It was his brother Lee Harvey Oswald  who Robert Lee Oswald  saw in September 1959 (they
were rabbit hunting together for the  last time), and it was his brother Lee Harvey Oswald he
picked up at Love Field/Dallas at June 14th 1962 ... and Lee Harvey Oswald was acc. to his
brother ... THE BOY I HAD ALWAYS KNOWN ... 

But Armstrong and Hargrove  knew better: Lee left his brother in September 1959 and some other person, a Lee-Impostor
came back in 1962 ... of course ... "well, yeah, that's just like your opinion, man .. "

Edited February 16 by Karl Kinaski

[Jim Hargrove]

Again, Robert was clearly trying to hide the specifics of the Oswald Project, of which he was part.  But he sometimes go confused and made mistakes.  One of those slips involved Stripling School.  From our website:

 Robert Oswald knew HARVEY Oswald

In 1948 Robert Oswald enrolled in the 9th grade at Stripling Junior High School in Ft. Worth (1948-49 school year). Six years later, in 1954, HARVEY Oswald enrolled in the 9th grade at Stripling JHS. Two years later, during the summer and fall of 1956 Robert Oswald, HARVEY Oswald, and the short, heavy-set Marguerite Oswald impostor were living in an apartment at 4936 Collinwood in Ft. Worth, not far from Stripling JHS. 
 

Google Maps

While living together in this small apartment, it is the author's opinion that Robert and HARVEY discussed their attendance, teachers, and experiences at nearby Stripling JHS. The would explain how Robert Oswald learned that HARVEY had attended Stripling JHS, and would also explain how Robert was able to tell the Warren Commission that his "brother" had attended Stripling.

NOTE: It is worth noting that during the summer of 1956 Robert's mother, the tall, nice-looking Marguerite Claverie Oswald, was still living in New Orleans and  working at Goldrings Dept. Store. LEE Oswald was also in New Orleans, working under the supervision of Frank DiBenedetto at the Gerard F. Tujague Company. Late that summer Marguerite Claverie Oswald relocated from New Orleans to Ft. Worth and moved into an apartment at 3830 W. 6th, not far from 4936 Collinwood. While in the Marines her son, LEE Oswald (not HARVEY), resided with her when on leave from the Marine Corps.

HARVEY Oswald joined the Marines in October, 1956, left Fort Worth, and arrived at Camp Pendleton in California. One month later, in November, Robert Oswald married Vada Mercer, and the Marguerite Oswald impostor was now alone in her apartment at 4936 Collinwood. During the time that Robert and Vada were dating, the summer and fall of 1956, Robert never introduced his future wife to HARVEY Oswald (supposedly his "brother") nor to the Marguerite Oswald impostor (supposedly his "mother"). This makes perfect sense, because HARVEY Oswald was not Robert's brother and the short, heavy-set Marguerite Oswald impostor was not Robert's mother.

Robert Oswald clearly participated knowingly in the Oswald Project, which began around the time the Central Intelligence Agency was created (1947). This CIA project began by allowing a very young Russian-speaking youth to share the identity of a young American boy--Lee Harvey Oswald. While growing up both boys--American born LEE Harvey Oswald and Russian speaking HARVEY Lee Oswald--would live in the same city, often attend the same schools, and at the age of 17 both young men would join the US Marine Corps. The goal was for HARVEY Oswald to assume the identity of LEE Oswald and "defect" to the Soviet Union, where he could secretly use his Russian language ability to collect information on behalf of the CIA. Robert Oswald likely met the Russian speaking HARVEY Oswald in New York City in the fall of 1953. Three years later Robert, HARVEY, and the Marguerite Oswald impostor lived together at 4936 Collinwood in Fort Worth, TX, from  June thru October, 1956. In 1958 Robert took a photo of his real brother, the taller, huskier LEE Oswald, which he published in his book titled LEE, a Portrait of  Lee  Harvey Oswald.  One year later Robert took a photo of 19 year old HARVEY Oswald, only a few days before left the United States and "defected" to the Soviet Union.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Which is easily explained by understanding that Robert Oswald was a part of the Oswald Project.

When faced with anything that doesn't fit the H&L theory, they can fall back on this. Very handy.

[Karl Kinaski]

@Hargrove:

Oswald Project or not: Robert Oswald, his wife Vada, their little kid, Lee Harvey Oswald and the mother of Lee and Robert Marguerite Oswald where living  about eight kilometers apart in Fort Worth from 19th Nov. to Dec 22. 1958 and in close contact which each other, especially after Marguerites accident  on Nov. 5th 1958. It's all in Robert Oswalds 1967 book: "LEE, Portrait of Lee Harvey Oswald by his brother."  

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16 by Karl Kinaski

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Karl Kinaski said:

Robert Oswald, his wife Vada, their little kid, Lee Harvey Oswald and the mother of Lee and Robert Marguerite Oswald where living  about eight kilometers apart in Fort Worth from 19th Nov. to Dec 22. 1958 and in close contact which each other

 

Yeah... right.

Where's the beef? Quote the book instead of telling us what it says.

And this time don't leave out the part where Robert says they were keeping their distance from "Marguerite." That's right... I saw you removed that when you quoted the book earlier.

 

[Jim Hargrove]

While we’re talking about Robert, it is interesting to note that even long ago Jim Garrison and his staff believed that Robert was hiding something about the identity of his “brother.”  During a lengthy examination of Oswald’s multiple heights (centering around 5’ 9” and 5’ 11”) the DA’s chief investigator, Lou Ivon, wrote in a memo:

If you want to know what I really think, it is that Robert knew this returning defector was not really Lee and this is what his problem was the night of the assassination when he found it necessary to take such a long drive to think things out.  He knew things were far more complicated than they appeared on the surface.

And about those heights.  Notice, for example that in a 1959 Marine Corps physical examination, Oswald was listed as 5’ 11”.  But measured on the slab in 1963, the dead Oswald was two inches shorter.  These were professional measurements.

 

[John Kowalski]

On 2/16/2024 at 5:05 AM, Pete Mellor said:

My son bought me a copy of Armstrong's 'Harvey & Lee'.  Overall the biography of LHO is well covered.  But, I've never swallowed the two mothers stuff or the two little boys groomed for clandestine work for CIA.  Too near the twilight zone.

Hi Pete:

MK-Ultra sub-project # 103 was created to study European children to see if they could be used in future CIA operations.

https://www.newspapers.com/article/abilene-reporter-news-mkultra-and-childr/7536363/

https://humansbefree.com/2017/06/cia-using-mk-ultra-mind-control-on-children.html