Pat Speer Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 For those with an interest, fellow Forum member Francois Carlier has recorded a discussion of ours and put it up on YouTube. This is not a research presentation. It is an informal discussion between two people with an interest in the Kennedy assassination. As proved by the video, age and cancer have taken a toll on me, and I am often forgetful. But those who know me will see that my spirit remains intact, and that lone-nutters such as Francois and conspiracy theorists such as myself can have a friendly conversation. And it is in that spirit that I bring this video to the attention of our fellow Forum members. One viewing this should not take anything we say as gospel. Or start attack threads questioning our character or intelligence. This is not propaganda designed to fool anyone. It is simply a friendly chat that I hope will inspire more friendly chats. If you can accept it for what it is...Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Oh my lord Pat, you're going to go to the grave believing there was an Oswald/Baker encounter on the the second floor. I hope Saint Peter doesn't waste his time trying to convince you otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morrow Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 19 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: Oh my lord Pat, you're going to go to the grave believing there was an Oswald/Baker encounter on the the second floor. I hope Saint Peter doesn't waste his time trying to convince you otherwise. What is your proof there was no Oswald/Marion Baker encounter on the second floor? What is the best essay on this topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 30 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: Oh my lord Pat, you're going to go to the grave believing there was an Oswald/Baker encounter on the the second floor. I hope Saint Peter doesn't waste his time trying to convince you otherwise. Why thank you, Sandy. It sounds like you think there's a chance of my getting into heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 2 minutes ago, Pat Speer said: Why thank you, Sandy. It sounds like you think there's a chance of my getting into heaven. LOL, yep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 17 minutes ago, Robert Morrow said: What is your proof there was no Oswald/Marion Baker encounter on the second floor? What is the best essay on this topic? Here's a very simple proof... Suppose there was indeed an Oswald/Baker second floor encounter. Then why didn't Officer Baker mention it in his first-day affidavit? Even though he knew Oswald was being charged with the murder? The reason Baker didn't mention it is because it never happened. End of proof. There are numerous other reasons to believe the encounter never happened. The most exhaustive study is the one by Bart Kamp, written up as "Anatomy of the Second Floor Lunchroom Encounter." It is here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Crane Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) Man,oh man.... I must admit that it is so disappointing to hear Pat talk now. Pat,I have been a member on this forum since 2005,and I have put you up there on such a high pedestal.You are so admired.You are up there with David Lifton in my eyes as such prominent researchers.I don't know if it's the cancer or other illnesses that has corrupted your mind. I just don't know what to say or how to say it.But it is so disappointing. That is all. Edited March 24 by Michael Crane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said: Suppose there was indeed an Oswald/Baker second floor encounter. Then why didn't Officer Baker mention it in his first-day affidavit? Marrion Baker did, of course, mention his encounter with Lee Oswald in his first-day affidavit. He merely got the floor number wrong. The "second floor" portion of the encounter was confirmed by Roy Truly in Truly's 11/23 affidavit. Lots more Lunchroom Encounter Denial by a variety of conspiracy theorists can be enjoyed at the link below.... http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com / The Second-Floor Lunchroom Encounter Edited March 24 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morrow Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 6 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said: Here's a very simple proof... Suppose there was indeed an Oswald/Baker second floor encounter. Then why didn't Officer Baker mention it in his first-day affidavit? Even though he knew Oswald was being charged with the murder? The reason Baker didn't mention it is because it never happened. End of proof. There are numerous other reasons to believe the encounter never happened. The most exhaustive study is the one by Bart Kamp, written up as "Anatomy of the Second Floor Lunchroom Encounter." It is here. First of all, I want to say I know "affidavits" can be fabricated, but what do you say about this (notice how Baker is trying to hard to get the "frame Oswald" description correct - Baker comes in at 5'9", 165 pounds, whereas the Dallas Police dispatcher was sprewing out Marguerite Oswald's May, 1960 description of her son as "5 feet 10 inches tall, 165 pounds." Couldn't Baker reasonably say I made a mistake as to which floor in the TSBD that I saw Oswald on? Officer Marrion Baker Affidavit of 11/22/1963 describes Oswald as approximately 30 years old, 5’9”, 165 pound, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket” [Affidavit of M. L. Baker, November 22, 1963] - Page 1 of 2 - The Portal to Texas History (unt.edu) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morrow Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) 5 hours ago, David Von Pein said: Marrion Baker did, of course, mention his encounter with Lee Oswald in his first-day affidavit. He merely got the floor number wrong. The "second floor" portion of the encounter was confirmed by Roy Truly in Truly's 11/23 affidavit. Lots more Lunchroom Encounter Denial by a variety of conspiracy theorists can be enjoyed at the link below.... http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com / The Second-Floor Lunchroom Encounter This question is for EVERYONE. At exact time was Roy Truly "checking our employees, and did not find Lee.?" I am referring to Truly's 11/23/63 affidavit. What is the best estimate for that so called "roll call" which was really an informal checking to see who is here and who is not. Edited March 24 by Robert Morrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 hour ago, Robert Morrow said: First of all, I want to say I know "affidavits" can be fabricated, but what do you say about this (notice how Baker is trying to hard to get the "frame Oswald" description correct - Baker comes in at 5'9", 165 pounds, whereas the Dallas Police dispatcher was sprewing out Marguerite Oswald's May, 1960 description of her son as "5 feet 10 inches tall, 165 pounds." Couldn't Baker reasonably say I made a mistake as to which floor in the TSBD that I saw Oswald on? Officer Marrion Baker Affidavit of 11/22/1963 describes Oswald as approximately 30 years old, 5’9”, 165 pound, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket” [Affidavit of M. L. Baker, November 22, 1963] - Page 1 of 2 - The Portal to Texas History (unt.edu) Robert, Baker's Affidavit matches perfectly with radio dispatches of 12:44 and 12:45. My question is, did Baker encounter someone before, or after these dispatches went out; or did he later write his affidavit to match the description contained in the dispatches? Or, like you postulate, was the affidavit faked to match the dispatches - even down to his age. https://www.jfk-assassination.net/dpdtapes/ Channel 2 Dispatcher Yes, 12:44 p.m. 9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) The type of weapon looked like a 30-30 rifle or some type of Winchester. Dispatcher 9, it was a rifle? 9 A rifle, yes. Dispatcher 9, any clothing description? 9 About 30, 5'10", 165 pounds. Channel 1 12:45 Dispatcher Attention Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male, all squads. Attention all squads. The suspect in the shooting at approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten inches, weight one hundred sixty-five pounds, reported to be armed with what is thought to be a 30 caliber rifle. Attention all squads. The suspect from Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male about thirty, slender build, five feet ten inches tall, one hundred sixty-five pounds, armed with what is thought to be a 30-30 rifle. No further description at this time, or information. 12:45. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 At 12;37 on Channel 2 of the Dallas Police Dispatch Tapes; https://www.jfk-assassination.net/dpdtapes/ 137 (Patrolman E.D. Brewer) We have a man here who says he saw him pull the weapon back through the window off of the second floor from the southeast corner of that depository building Dispatcher All right, do you have the building covered off? 137 No, about 3/4 of a block away from there. Dispatcher All right, pull on down there. 137 10-4. I'll leave these witnesses here. E.D. Brewer was a solo motorcyclist in rhe Traffic Division's 7::00 A.M to 3:00 P.M. shift, along with Hargis, Haygood, Baker, Martin and Jackson, etc. https://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1136#relPageId=152 Baker allegedly encountered Oswald on the second floor. Was there going to be an early attempt to place Oswald and the shooting from the second floor? What policeman walks off and leaves a witness, or witnesses to a homicide? First there is one man who saw the rifle, who the becomes witnesses (plural). Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Jesus Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 8 hours ago, David Von Pein said: Marrion Baker did, of course, mention his encounter with Lee Oswald in his first-day affidavit. That's not true. Nowhere in that affidavit does he identify the man he saw as Oswald. In fact, his description of the man does NOT match Oswald. YOU identify the man as Oswald, not Baker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) 3 hours ago, Gil Jesus said: YOU identify the man as Oswald, not Baker. Why are you ignoring Roy Truly's observations? Mr. Truly was right there alongside Baker and Oswald. Do you really think Truly lied when he said it was Oswald in the lunchroom? Edited March 24 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Crane Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 For the record Pat, I feel the same way about David Lifton....disappointed. There is barely any legitimate evidence in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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