The Passing of Church Committee Witness Jim Gochenaur

[James DiEugenio]

The MSM completely ignored Jim's death.  I thought this was really outrageous even for them.

He was such an important witness, key to the Secret Service cover up.

So I decided to pen this remembrance of him.

RIP, my friend.  You never got the recognition you deserved.

https://jamesanthonydieugenio.substack.com/p/the-passing-of-church-committee-witness

[Micah Mileto]

Gochenaur didn't add the detail about Moore pulling a gun on him, or Moore showing him an autopsy photo, until after 2018, unless I'm missing something. Gochenaur didn't mention those things even while speaking with researchers within weeks of the event allegedly happening.

Gochenaur said that he met Elmer Moore on 2/23/1970 when he attempted to call the FBI in hopes of obtaining for a high-quality copy of the Mary Moorman photograph to use for his artwork, and the representative he was speaking to directed him to Moore (JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass, 2022 book by James DiEugenio). Gochenaur described going to Moore’s office in Seattle on 5/7/1971 and speaking to him in person (Grassyknoll.us, The Jim Gochenaur Interviews, 2020; CAPA, Nov. 2018 event, The Last Witnesses – Revealing The Truth; JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass, 2022 book by James DiEugenio). Gochenaur, in a 11/4/1970 letter to Harold Weisberg describing his interactions with Secret Service agent Elmer Moore, wrote “...Then he said something that did surprise me to no end. He said he and others studied the photos of President Kennedy's head wounds and that nothing was out of the ordinary?!? He told me that the photos could not prove anything worthwhile. I asked him about having competent medico-legal personnel take a look at the photos. again, he said something to the effect, "It wouldn't prove anything". I believe that agent Moore was either lying to me or that the Warren Report statements are a fraud as to the status of the autopsy photos. Could you make a comment on this?” (Link). In another letter from Gochenaur to Weisberg, dated 12/11/1970, it reads “After talking for some time on the value of the Mooreman Photo with Moore I asked Him why no one was allowed to view the autopsy photographs. Mr. Moore said, "I did." The following paragraph is an attempt at what Moore followed this remark with verbatum. "Lots of people saw em. Look, let me ask you something, what would prints prove anyway. They couldn't give you angles or anything like that. We looked over that rail yard, or bullets, nothing. If there were others shooting at him, where did they go? Do you know Garrison? Well, he thinks a guy popped up and hit him with a 45 from a sewer. Look, I must have seen the zapruter film a thousand times---nothing, nothing at all. We saw several movies, lots of photos, and there just isn't anything to prove from them. Pictures can't tell you as much as you seem to think."” (Link [link 2]). In a letter to dated 5/10/1971, Gochenaur wrote a list of details on when he says Elmer Moore showed him his personal briefcase of pictures and documents on the assassination, which included “Rough handwritten notes on interviews” with, among others, Dr. Perry and Dr. Humes. Humes’ name has an asterisk after it, noted as “means he wouldn't let me read them” Gochenaur wrote of Moore meeting Perry “A. No date on notes: (Moore said it was the 28th or 29th of Nov.) B. Moore brought with him Humes report. C. Moore told me several times he did not "twist Perry's arm", which leads me to believe he might have. D. Perry said he did not see a back wound. E. Perry did not observe a hole near the top, front of right ear. F ) Moore drew "rough renderings" of discription of head wounds”, then on the letter is a drawing of a right-profile view of a head with a large circular wound above the ear, with an arrow pointed to it labeled “missing area”, as well as small wounds in the lower back of the head, upper back, throat, as well as a spot on the forehead pointed at by an arrow labeled “"wound" near left eye. Right eye swollen”. Below the drawing it reads “Moore showed Perry drawings and "other visual aids" the back wound from Humes work. Moore wrote up a long memo to the Commission. The basic summary of which was: 1. The wound can not indicate conclusively the angles of the shots. 2. The direction of the shots are above and behind. 3. The photos of wounds likewise can not conclusively give angles - (he left out direction). according to Moore, Warren told him that its best just not to talk conspiracy: we just don't have anything”... “Moore doesn't know, of course, I'm writing to you. His motives for letting me peek into his horror chest is unknown. I sense a guilt thing"” (Harold Weisberg Archive, jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/G Disk/Gochenauer James/Item 12 [link 2]).

 

In 2021, James Gochenaur claimed that Elmer Moore actually showed him an autopsy photograph (Black Op Radio, show #1071, 12/2/2021 [audio, 31:33]; JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass, 2022 book by James DiEugenio) – as opposed to his earlier statements where he described just being told of the pictures by Moore. When interviewed by James DiEugenio, Gochenaur said “...And then he showed me—another shock—he showed me a color photograph, 8 x 10, of President Kennedy in autopsy I assume. It was different from Mr. Groden’s pictures in that this side of the face, the right side of the face, the eye was swollen. And it was black and blue”. When DiEugenio replied “I don’t remember ever seeing an autopsy photo like that, that you described”, Gochenaur said “I don’t like to talk about it. I’ll talk about it with you” (JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass, 2022 book by James DiEugenio). There doesn’t seem to be any known prior instance of Gochenaur claiming that Moore showed him an autopsy photo – and in a 5/10/1971 letter to Weisberg, Gochenaur gave a detailed list of materials that he said Elmer Moore showed him, and autopsy images were not mentioned (Harold Weisberg Archive, jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/G Disk/Gochenauer James/Item 12 [link 2]).

Edited May 3 by Micah Mileto

[James DiEugenio]

Oh please Micah.

He told me and Oliver during the interview that he was telling us stuff that he had not said before.

And you could tell he was getting emotional. 

You weren't there.

[Ron Bulman]

I found Gochenauer sincere when speaking about all of this.

[Ron Bulman]

Jim, your Gochenauer JFK related obituary, or tribute to his importance to the SS makes the bigger picture clearer for me, I think.

It's the third strike, you're out for the SS.  They were involved from beforehand, to the actual assassination and afterwards.  The structure seems somewhat clear.

 

[Ron Bulman]

I didn't know they used an office at Parkland to talk to the Doctors and Nurses.  I guess it makes sense, the hospital would want to cooperate with the investigation.  But this wasn't something reported in the newspapers.  I'd guess all those spoken to were probably told not to speak of what was discussed with anyone else.

 Before that first meeting, Jim read up on Moore and talked to the dean of Commission critics, the late Harold Weisberg. So he then asked Moore if he pressured Dr. Malcolm Perry into changing his story about the neck wound being one of entrance, something Perry said in public at a press conference on November 22^nd at Parkland Hospital.   Moore replied quite frankly with, “I was ordered to do that.”  Moore then added something even more revealing.  He had been asked to do so by the Inspector General of the Secret Service, Thomas J. Kelley. His orders were to induce Perry to say that he was not sure if the wound was an exit or an entrance.  So he and fellow Secret Service agent Roger Warner set up an office at Parkland Hospital, from which they  called in doctors and nurses and confronted them with the official autopsy report. With Perry it worked.  As Jim told Oliver Stone and myself, “I thought it was pretty interesting that he would admit to something that’s pretty close to a felony.”

[James DiEugenio]

That was pretty bracing I thought.

Its really something how unguarded Moore was with Jim.

its also pretty depressing that the Church Committee, and especially the HSCA, did so little with him.

Incredibly, the HSCA did not even know he testified for the Church Committee.

[Micah Mileto]

I wish I could've come to Pittsburgh and ask him what the "wound near left eye" thing meant. Because if we can believe everything he says, then it would be a big deal if Moore said that's what Perry told him.

 

 

[K K Lane]

Thanks, JIm.   Great substack article.

It's amazing that even after several years of JFKA deep-diving, there's stories like this that come up that I'd never heard of.

How do you assess the claims he made?   What corroboration is there and what do you think was in the picture at the home of Ruby's sister?

[Ron Bulman]

My three strikes and you're out for the Secret service comment relates to Vince Palamara's work, primarily Survivors Guilt, other observances and Jim Gochenaur's experiences.  Taken together it seems multiple levels of the SS might have had foreknowledge, some involved in the assassination and cover up.  More detail coming.

My posit in all this is the Secret Service was complicit in the JFK Assassination, some were actually involved in it, some in the coverup.

First, almost exclusively from Survivor's Guilt: The Secret Service and the Failure to Protect President Kennedy: Palamara, Vincent: 9781937584603: Amazon.com: Books

From it.  No SSA's on the Running Boards? Not JFK.  Rybka waved off by Roberts, Ready called back up on the running board as it was happening.  SS protocol, no slow turns, Houston, then Elm.  The abnormal last minute motorcycle escort restrictions, behind to the rear fender, not beside.  Much more detail here.

Second, something Vince gets into a little.  The upper levels of the ss and its involvement.   C. Douglass Dillon, Secretary of the Treasury was a friend of Allen Dulles.  Below him was Chief Rowley at the Secret Service.  Below him was Paul Paterni, SS 1933, OSS in Italy in WWII with James Jesus Angleton and FBI WC liaison Ray Rocca. 

Then we have Jim Gochenauer's statements as the third strike.  IG Kelly was ordered to Dallas, he ordered Moore to Dallas to talk with Perry and others, after he's talked to Oswald.  This all goes much deeper.  

[Denise Hazelwood]

2 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

My three strikes and you're out for the Secret service comment relates to Vince Palamara's work, primary Survivors Guilt, other observances and Jim Gochenaur's experiences.  Taken together it seems multiple levels of the SS might have had foreknowledge, some involved in the assassination and cover up.

Oh, definitely cover up. One of their own (Hickey) accidentally shot JFK with the defective AR-15 that they routinely used. Very embarrassing. But I doubt very much that the SS was involved in the assassination beyond sloppy protection and failure to follow protocol. Not to mention being hung over after some heavy drinking the night before. 

[Ron Bulman]

On 5/7/2024 at 10:21 PM, Ron Bulman said:

My three strikes and you're out for the Secret service comment relates to Vince Palamara's work, primarily Survivors Guilt, other observances and Jim Gochenaur's experiences.  Taken together it seems multiple levels of the SS might have had foreknowledge, some involved in the assassination and cover up.  More detail coming.

My posit in all this is the Secret Service was complicit in the JFK Assassination, some were actually involved in it, some in the coverup.

First, almost exclusively from Survivor's Guilt: The Secret Service and the Failure to Protect President Kennedy: Palamara, Vincent: 9781937584603: Amazon.com: Books

From it.  No SSA's on the Running Boards? Not JFK.  Rybka waved off by Roberts, Ready called back up on the running board as it was happening.  SS protocol, no slow turns, Houston, then Elm.  The abnormal last minute motorcycle escort restrictions, behind to the rear fender, not beside.  Much more detail here.

Second, something Vince gets into a little.  The upper levels of the ss and its involvement.   C. Douglass Dillon, Secretary of the Treasury was a friend of Allen Dulles.  Below him was Chief Rowley at the Secret Service.  Below him was Paul Paterni, SS 1933, OSS in Italy in WWII with James Jesus Angleton and FBI WC liaison Ray Rocca. 

Then we have Jim Gochenauer's statements as the third strike.  IG Kelly was ordered to Dallas, he ordered Moore to Dallas to talk with Perry and others, after he's talked to Oswald.  This all goes much deeper.  

Edited.

[Ron Bulman]

On 5/8/2024 at 12:56 AM, Denise Hazelwood said:

Oh, definitely cover up. One of their own (Hickey) accidentally shot JFK with the defective AR-15 that they routinely used. Very embarrassing. But I doubt very much that the SS was involved in the assassination beyond sloppy protection and failure to follow protocol. Not to mention being hung over after some heavy drinking the night before. 

Hickey did not accidentally shoot JFK.  No physical witnesses to such, nothing on film, no photographs.  Completely discredited in one of three ongoing at the time lawsuits by Hickey in which he won an out of court financial settlement.

[Paul Brancato]

On 5/3/2024 at 11:29 AM, James DiEugenio said:

The MSM completely ignored Jim's death.  I thought this was really outrageous even for them.

He was such an important witness, key to the Secret Service cover up.

So I decided to pen this remembrance of him.

RIP, my friend.  You never got the recognition you deserved.

https://jamesanthonydieugenio.substack.com/p/the-passing-of-church-committee-witness

Amazing and new news for me. What was HSCA doing letting Army and Navy Brass into that most important HSCA meeting? 

[Ron Bulman]

On 5/7/2024 at 10:21 PM, Ron Bulman said:

My three strikes and you're out for the Secret service comment relates to Vince Palamara's work, primarily Survivors Guilt, other observances and Jim Gochenaur's experiences.  Taken together it seems multiple levels of the SS might have had foreknowledge, some involved in the assassination and cover up.  More detail coming.

My posit in all this is the Secret Service was complicit in the JFK Assassination, some were actually involved in it, some in the coverup.

First, almost exclusively from Survivor's Guilt: The Secret Service and the Failure to Protect President Kennedy: Palamara, Vincent: 9781937584603: Amazon.com: Books

From it.  No SSA's on the Running Boards? Not JFK.  Rybka waved off by Roberts, Ready called back up on the running board as it was happening.  SS protocol, no slow turns, Houston, then Elm.  The abnormal last minute motorcycle escort restrictions, behind to the rear fender, not beside.  Much more detail here.

Second, something Vince gets into a little.  The upper levels of the ss and its involvement.   C. Douglass Dillon, Secretary of the Treasury was a friend of Allen Dulles.  Below him was Chief Rowley at the Secret Service.  Below him was Paul Paterni, SS 1933, OSS in Italy in WWII with James Jesus Angleton and FBI WC liaison Ray Rocca. 

Then we have Jim Gochenauer's statements as the third strike.  IG Kelly was ordered to Dallas, he ordered Moore to Dallas to talk with Perry and others, after he's talked to Oswald.  This all goes much deeper.  

I neglected to emphasize Moore told Gochenaur the Inspector General, Kelly and (Chief) Rowley got "him" (Abraham Bolden).  I.E. you have the Secret Service Inspector General and Chief involved in the cover up.

Then we have SSA Floyd Boring, assistant Special Agent In Charge of the Whitehouse Detail who helped plan the trip, "there was no Secret Service investigation of Kennedy assassination."