Jeff Sachs, an academic with a spine

[James DiEugenio]

Oh no, someone just mentioned Ira Stoll re JFK.

That is it for me.

Mathew just went on ignore.

Bye bye.

[Matthew Koch]

2 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Oh no, someone just mentioned Ira Stoll re JFK.

That is it for me.

Mathew just went on ignore.

Bye bye.

James can't refute what I said because it's true and has citation!!

He won't cite his uncited opinions, and is now running away because I am debunking his Destiny Betrayed Thesis.

 

 

 

Here is the Book that is basically the silver bullet to the Radical WereWolf 

https://www.amazon.com/Cold-war-counterrevolution-Foreign-Kennedy/dp/0670226904/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2Y7FW5KQGD84X&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.xM-ryQa3mi_x6AmhKNyeqgwJR9zdFSI3QgSpYKewH1bP4ZzPC9H2d-SIDrVoniJtq-AdrtxHXYFqA93a7YnMax3Upig1rD5cTWB1K18xRmHUnJwPgYVe67Qnkr-MwF8CB6Tzys8HQM9rSFyMgIMEnTQtdfQWCP3eec94ZKTg7FmQOVNSaBzq6j9OcFxYFeAzNOloD4WWytQG87qRXzdItvsK_ZfNaQ0rYo1xvzvbsds.oyWsXwyhq9VSrwzd9Yi5upHUkhJXl7IqkScWbVvpAV8&dib_tag=se&keywords=cold+war+and+counter+revolution&qid=1717475379&sprefix=Cold+war+and+Counter+Revi%2Caps%2C153&sr=8-1

Click image to open expanded view

 

 

 

[Matthew Koch]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Well, back on topic, which is Jeffrey Sachs....

One reservation I have about people like Sachs....

No matter what human-rights oppressions happen in China, Islamia or Russia...they largely go mute.

And history shows us that governments that viciously oppress their own populations often extend that suppression internationally. 

I happen to think the US should have never occupied Afghanistan. But let's face facts: what happens to women and religious and sexual minorities in Afghanistan? 

Teen girls despair as Taliban school ban continues

 

BBC

https://www.bbc.com › news › world-asia-68634700

 

Mar 22, 2567 BE — According to Unicef, the ban has now impacted some 1.4m Afghan girls - among them, former classmates Habiba, Mahtab and Tamana, who spoke to the ...

 

---30---

The Taliban are not the good guys. The Houthis, Hezbollah and Hamas/UNRWA are cut from the same cloth. 

Women are 50% of the population anywhere. Can we just whistle in the dark about women's rights, as if such rights are not basic and fundamental?

Evidently, for some elements within the US, if the narrative of women's rights in Islamia is inconvenient...then the topic is dropped. 

See Sachs. 

 

 

 

Here is some good Bio Info on Sachs 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Matthew Koch said:

Here is some good Bio Info on Sachs 

 

I like that. An "exclusive" discussion with Sachs. 

Very rarified. 

[Matthew Koch]

13 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I like that. An "exclusive" discussion with Sachs. 

Very rarified. 

If Sachs' book claims that JFK went on a transformation, I do not think that is supported by evidence.

I'd ask Jim but I'm being punished with being on the Ignore list, lols 

JFK had a strategy of Peace from coming into office and took longer to happen because of failure at the Bay of Pigs and Khrushchev's desperate a reckless attempt to even the missile gap through his Cuban Missile Gambit. Interestingly there is no criticism from Sachs, Good, Stone etc about Khrushchev restarting Nuclear testing or his Missile Gambit that Fidel Castro and Che Guevara tried to nuke America over. Which brings up Oliver Stone and others mentioned above that they don't criticize people like Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, and the other dictators in Olivers South of the border documentary. But they will criticize America and externalize blame to advocate for their Bernie Sanders USSA America that JFK does NOT represent. 

 

 

Edited June 4 by Matthew Koch

[Benjamin Cole]

5 hours ago, Matthew Koch said:

If Sachs' book claims that JFK went on a transformation, I do not think that is supported by evidence.

I'd ask Jim but I'm being punished with being on the Ignore list, lols 

JFK had a strategy of Peace from coming into office and took longer to happen because of failure at the Bay of Pigs and Khrushchev's desperate a reckless attempt to even the missile gap through his Cuban Missile Gambit. Interestingly there is no criticism from Sachs, Good, Stone etc about Khrushchev restarting Nuclear testing or his Missile Gambit that Fidel Castro and Che Guevara tried to nuke America over. Which brings up Oliver Stone and others mentioned above that they don't criticize people like Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, and the other dictators in Olivers South of the border documentary. But they will criticize America and externalize blame to advocate for their Bernie Sanders USSA America that JFK does NOT represent. 

 

 

MK-

I would not be too harsh on JFK, nor is it necessary to valorize him. 

Yes, JFK made mistakes, such as ever green-lighting the BoP invasion or sending any troops to Vietnam at all. 

My take is that on the big-stuff, JFK was right. 

BTW, JFK obviously believed in the use of military force, and even personally participated in WWII, and thought the only problem with beating Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany was that it was not done sooner and harder. 

Who knows what a JFK would counsel today about a Putin or Hamas? He might advocate an early and strong smiting of such ghouls. 

[Matthew Koch]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

MK-

I would not be too harsh on JFK, nor is it necessary to valorize him. 

Yes, JFK made mistakes, such as ever green-lighting the BoP invasion or sending any troops to Vietnam at all. 

My take is that on the big-stuff, JFK was right. 

BTW, JFK obviously believed in the use of military force, and even personally participated in WWII, and thought the only problem with beating Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany was that it was not done sooner and harder. 

Who knows what a JFK would counsel today about a Putin or Hamas? He might advocate an early and strong smiting of such ghouls. 

Ben, it's rare that I get to put a cherry on top of the case I've made but here is James Destiny Betrayed Director Oliver Stone saying that "American Exceptionalism" is a Myth created by Tom Brokaw and goes on to talk about George W. Bush?  

I think Oliver ate too many Cocoa Leaves with South American dictators ; )

 

The 500LB Gorilla in the room called John F. Kennedy and his Pt 109 service

The Greatest Generation sacrificed for the Country 

Oliver grew up a Wall Street Prep kid with daddy issues that went to Yale voted for Goldwater and volunteered to fight in Vietnam because he want to impress his Dad. Comes back joins band anti war wagon goes back to Yale. Then uses his service to trash America and make Millions of Dollars and portray America as the villain in everything he does. 

JFK and The Greatest Generation were the "Strong Men Who Created Good Times" Oliver Stone and his Generation are the "Weak Men That Have Created Bad Times" present day Clown World

I'm with this Veteran who was part of JFK's Generation NOT Oliver Stone and his revisionism 

 

[Cliff Varnell]

7 hours ago, Matthew Koch said:

. But they will criticize America and externalize blame to advocate for their Bernie Sanders USSA America that JFK does NOT represent. 

Koch supports a Convicted Felon  -- the one aligned with Vladimir Putin.

[Matthew Koch]

43 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Koch supports a Convicted Felon  -- the one aligned with Vladimir Putin.

Give me your Punk Rocker Card Cliff because your status is now NARC for the Man

JFK and Trump are both America First 

Present day Bernie Sanders DNC are Me First and The Gimme Gimmes hardly "Ask Not What You Can Do For Your Country" 

Edited June 5 by Matthew Koch

[Denise Hazelwood]

I am another JFK fan—not for his promiscuity (although I do understand that the stuff he was taking for his back pain and adrenal issues had an intensifying effect on his libido) but for his handling of the Cuban Missile Crisis and for his exceptional speeches—not to mention his bravery in the PT109 incident. Many people will forget  almost everything about him beyond that he was assassinated, but I hope that he goes down in history for more than just getting killed while in office. Lincoln, for example, has the Gettysburg Address that most people at least recognize the first line of, and credit him with freeing the slaves. 

[Denise Hazelwood]

44 minutes ago, Matthew Koch said:

JFK and Trump are both America First

I would never describe these 2 men as being anything alike. JFK was articulate and intelligent. Trump’s speeches are incoherent rants. JFK demonstrated bravery in his Naval service. Trump feigned bone spurs. They both came from money, but JFK never ran a fraud charity or fraud university nor was convicted of 32 felony counts. Although the Kennedy family money did come from bootlegging, that was not JFK’s doing, whereas Trump had hands-on with his fraudulent dealings.

So while I am a JFK fan, I am most definitely NOT a Trump supporter.

I know this forum is supposed to be about the JFKA and not the current political climate, but if this is where things are going to go, I am happy to weigh in. 

[Cliff Varnell]

2 hours ago, Matthew Koch said:

Give me your Punk Rocker Card Cliff because your status is now NARC for the Man

You don't know anything about punk rock, kid.  It's hey-day was over when you were in short pants.

2 hours ago, Matthew Koch said:

JFK and Trump are both America First 

Trick-ass mark, or mark-ass trick?

The Convicted Felon is Donald Trump first.

[Robert Morrow]

On 5/31/2024 at 4:04 PM, Kevin Balch said:

I agree that JFK almost singlehandedly peacefully resolved the Cuban Missile Crisis. Almost singlehandedly. Early in the crisis, it was Adlai Stevenson that overtly pushed the idea of a trade of the Jupiter missiles for the Soviet missiles in Cuba. JFK was quick to grasp the value of the idea. After the crisis, JFK kind of threw Stevenson under the bus and an article written by Charles Bartlett shortly afterward with JFK’s cooperation, minimized Stevenson’s contribution. To his credit, JFK was really the only one on the EXCOMM that thought about WHY the Soviets placed the missiles in Cuba.

Incidentally, the deployment of the Jupiter missiles in Turkey and Italy was a proposal of the Eisenhower administration  in response to the Soviet launch of Sputnik. It was believed that this undermined the credibility of the US nuclear umbrella with NATO as the US would not have an operational ICBM for several years. The Jupiters would temporarily fill in the perceived gap. The missiles were actually deployed during JFK’s administration by which time not only were they unnecessary but also obsolete as the US had an operational ICBM (the Atlas) as well as a submarine launched ballistic missile (Polaris).

One of the major stumbling blocks to removing the Jupiter missiles was fear of causing division within NATO, particularly with the Turks. So not only were the missiles deployed to reassure NATO, NATO considerations also delayed their removal leaving NATO essentially causing and prolonging the crisis. The situation in Ukraine shows we haven’t learned a thing.

Something else I thought was interesting was RFK proposing a “Remember the Maine” incident (actually using that phrase) right out of Operation Northwoods to give cover for an invasion of Cuba. It makes me wonder how much of Operation Northwoods was thought of by the military and how much was the military echoing back suggestions of RFK to get him off their backs. No one ever talks about it and there is only the RFK  narrative in Thirteen Days that has become the standard account.

In addition to the excellent Martin Sherwin book mentioned above, I’d also recommend The Other Missiles of October by Philip Nash and Averting the Final Failure: John F. Kennedy and the Secret Cuban Missile Crisis Meetings by former JFK Library historian Sheldon Stern who was the first to listen to all the recordings made with JFK’s tape recording system.

At the peak of the Cuban Missile Crisis, Lyndon Johnson wanted to invade or bomb Cuba – which would have caused WWIII

 Web link: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2012/05/robert-caros-new-history-of-lbj-offers-a-mistaken-account-of-the-cuban-missile-crisis.html

 QUOTE

 From start to finish, and on several occasions, RFK can be heard on the tapes, and read in the transcripts, arguing not only for an air attack but for an air strike followed by an invasion of the entire island of Cuba. Sheldon Stern, the library’s former chief historian, who has studied the tapes and transcripts more thoroughly than anyone, writes in his forthcoming book The Cuban Missile Crisis in American Memory: Myth versus Reality: “RFK was one of the most consistently hawkish and confrontational members of the ExComm.”

 The same can be said of Lyndon Johnson, who, the few times he did speak up at the ExComm meetings, was (as Caro accurately quotes him) brutally bellicose, calling the president’s patience—his failure to meet Khrushchev’s forceful gestures with immediate force—a sign of “weakness” and “backing down.”

But, except in tone, Johnson was no more hawkish than Bobby Kennedy—and, especially on the last day of the crisis, no more hawkish than nearly all the advisers at the table.

When President Kennedy says he’s disposed to take Khrushchev’s missile trade, McGeorge Bundy, the national security adviser, protests (you can hear his voice on the tape, quivering), “I think we should tell you … the universal assessment of everyone in the government who’s connected with alliance problems: If we appear to be trading the defense of Turkey for the threat in Cuba, we will face a radical decline.”

UNQUOTE

 [“What Robert Caro Got Wrong,” Fred Kaplan, Slate, May 31, 2012]

 Another Fred Kaplan article on the Cuban Missile Crisis for Slate:

 https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2012/10/cuban-missile-crisis-50th-anniversary-what-this-cold-war-crisis-should-teach-us-about-foreign-policy-today.html

 [“What the Cuban Missile Crisis Should Teach Us,” Fred Kaplan, Slate, Oct. 12, 2012]

[Robert Morrow]

On 5/30/2024 at 11:13 PM, James DiEugenio said:

From his current column at Common Dreams.

 

Kennedy saved the world by coolly reasoning his way through the Cuban Missile Crisis, rather than following the advice of hothead advisors who called for war (for a detailed account, see Martin Sherwin’s magisterial Gambling with Armageddon, 2020). He then negotiated the Partial Nuclear Test Ban Treaty with Khrushchev in 1963. By the time of his death, which may well have been a government coup resulting from Kennedy’s peace initiative, JFK had pushed the clock back to 12 minutes to midnight, a magnificent and historic achievement.

Jeffrey Sachs on "JFK's Quest for Peace"

https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/jeffrey-sachs-jfks-quest-peace/

The Future of Freedom Foundation held its “The National Security State and JFK” Conference on Saturday, June 3, 2017, at the Dulles Airport Marriott in Northern Virginia. The conference examined the nature, origins, and consequences of America as a national security state since the end of World War II, including such programs as regime-change operations, invasions, occupations, coups, support of dictatorships, assassination, torture, indefinite detention, rendition, and kidnappings.

The conference also focused on President John F. Kennedy’s turn toward peace and friendly relations with the Soviet Union and Cuba and his resulting war against the U.S. national-security establishment.

This once in a lifetime event lined up one of the most impressive array of eleven expert speakers for this conference, including Ron Paul, Oliver Stone, Stephen Kinzer, Michael Glennon, Douglas Horne, David Talbot, Peter Janney, Jefferson Morley, James DiEugenio, and Jacob Hornberger.

The first person to address the conference was Jeffrey Sachs, who spoke on “JFK’s Quest for Peace.”  

Jeffrey Sachs holds the title of University Professor, the highest rank of professorship at Columbia University. He is a special adviser to former UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon on the Millennium Development Goals. Sachs has authored three New York Times bestsellers: The End of Poverty (2005), Common Wealth (2008), and The Price of Civilization (2011). His most recent book is The Age of Sustainable Development (2015). At the age of 28, he became a full professor with tenure at Harvard. Sachs was named one of Time magazine’s “100 Most Influential People in the World” in 2004 and 2005. In 2013, he authored a book on President John F. Kennedy’s remarkable Peace Speech at American University, entitled To Move the World: JFK’s Quest for Peace.

 

[Matthew Koch]

7 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

You don't know anything about punk rock, kid.  It's hey-day was over when you were in short pants.

Trick-ass mark, or mark-ass trick?

The Convicted Felon is Donald Trump first.

Well Grandpa I was just a kid when I listened to it but I do listen to better music than you ; )

The best line in this one is: "Kept in place by, displaced Government death squads"!

Oliver Stone and Your Generation wanna be boomers Gen X turned the country into a Holiday in Cambodia, lols I'm pretty sure that JFK started the Green Berets and you'd have had to have consumed alot of Oliver Stone films and banned substances to MK-Ultra yourself into thinking that hating America is what JFK represents [Emphasis Added]

I'm glad we can now expand on the point I've made with Sachs and now am making with Stone and you is that JFK is conservative compared to what you believe Cliff and what you and DiEugenio do with his murder is litterally this: 
 

Now we are at a point where "Liberalism" no longer meets it's definition therefor where current day Bernie Sanders Squad Columbia/Harvard River to the sea DNC party. NO LONGER IS THE PARTY OF JFK because Biden is going to lose votes not for what he has done to America it's what he hasn't done for Gaza..

Edited June 5 by Matthew Koch