Are the JFKA and the RFK1A Linked?

[Kirk Gallaway]

5 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Kirk,

    Most people don't understand psychiatric phenomena -- schizophrenia, mania, dissociation, etc.-- until they observe cases first hand.

     This is also true in cases of hypnosis and dissociative identity disorders, like Sirhan.  Such people may appear perfectly rational and normal in non-dissociated states.  But their pathognomonic symptom, as I learned from Dr. Martin Orne, himself, is amnesia for dissociated experiences.

      I treated patients during my career who had experienced fugue states and alter personality states for which they had total amnesia-- like ordering childhood-appropriate crayons and craft supplies from Amazon, in child-like alter states, then being surprised (as adults) when the crayons were delivered to their home.

      I had another patient who would sometimes talk and act like a 5 year old during sessions, and, at other times, would come to the office in short skirts, acting and talking like a flirtatious teenager.  She was in her 60s.

       IMO, Dr. Daniel Brown's forensic assessment of Sirhan's dissociative disorder is accurate and impressive.

       The same thing is true of Estabrook's 1943 textbook and case studies.

You know I think a lot of people have some exposure to this. At first when I was young it was in film in "3 Faces of Eve" and "Psycho". But later on I experienced some incidents of prolonged psychosis among people I knew,. A couple of people died gradually disassociating. Some were drug induced and temporary but  some weren't, including someone I was involved in meditation and lots of Eastern Philosophy New Age stuff who one day developed  delusions of grandeur and went for months claiming supernatural powers and declaring "he was the one." and I became an agent of evil.  I heard he recovered but I haven't seen him in 40 years. 

Yes everything he said about Sirhan seemed like the boiler plate clinical analysis i would suspect to hear of someone of Sirhan's condition. Nothing he said about Sirhan did I find suspect.

3 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

He looks like a wanna-be daytime TV talk show guest. A bit self-promotional. 

  Yeah I checked the entire interview out. I also see a lot of shtick.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3 by Kirk Gallaway

[Benjamin Cole]

31 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

You know I think a lot of people have some exposure to this. At first when I was young it was in film in "3 Faces of Eve" and "Psycho". But later on I experienced some incidents of prolonged psychosis among people I knew,. A couple of people died gradually disassociating. Some were drug induced and temporary but  some weren't, including someone I was involved in meditation and lots of Eastern Philosophy New Age stuff who one day developed  delusions of grandeur and went for months claiming supernatural powers and declaring "he was the one." and I became an agent of evil.  I heard he recovered but I haven't seen him in 40 years. 

Yes everything he said about Sirhan seemed like the boiler plate clinical analysis i would suspect to hear of someone of Sirhan's condition. Nothing he said about Sirhan did I find suspect.

  Yeah I checked the entire interview out. I also see a lot of shtick.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, for once we are the same page. So it goes. 

[Pete Mellor]

Apologies for high-jacking the RFK case, but on the topic of hypnotic associations with assassins, Mark Chapman from his early teens got involved with Christian/Jesus freak/hypnotist characters Arthur Blessitt, Charles McGowan, Fred Krauss and Paul Durbin.  Chapman was later treated in Hawaii at the Castle Memorial Hospital by Dr. Ram Gursahani, which was run by the 7th Day Adventist Church.  Chapman's wife Gloria then went to work at Castle Memorial.  Also in Hawaii Dr. Jules Bernhardt, a so called Chapman family friend & psychological counsellor/hypnotist was described as having innate capacity to connect with nature and unseen realms.

Dr. Richard Bloom-Director of Research & Development at Institute for Research in Hypnosis & Psychotherapy also connected to Chapman.  Bloom had previous career in Intelligence and the military.

Just days after the murder of Lennon, Pastor Charles McGowan who had no known contact with Chapman for years visits him in Rikers.

Dorothy Lewis a psychiatrist on Chapman's defence team gave a report that stated "he might have been acting in response to a command hallucination on the day of the shooting."

Dr. Emanuel Hammer (to crack a nut) a prosecution psychologist had previously published a book 'Post Hypnotic Suggestion'. 

In early '81 our old friends Dr. Milton Kline (CIA consultant on MK/Ultra) & Dr. Bernard Diamond were given access to Chapman's cell.

 

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Apologies for high-jacking the RFK case, but on the topic of hypnotic associations with assassins, Mark Chapman from his early teens got involved with Christian/Jesus freak/hypnotist characters Arthur Blessitt, Charles McGowan, Fred Krauss and Paul Durbin.  Chapman was later treated in Hawaii at the Castle Memorial Hospital by Dr. Ram Gursahani, which was run by the 7th Day Adventist Church.  Chapman's wife Gloria then went to work at Castle Memorial.  Also in Hawaii Dr. Jules Bernhardt, a so called Chapman family friend & psychological counsellor/hypnotist was described as having innate capacity to connect with nature and unseen realms.

Dr. Richard Bloom-Director of Research & Development at Institute for Research in Hypnosis & Psychotherapy also connected to Chapman.  Bloom had previous career in Intelligence and the military.

Just days after the murder of Lennon, Pastor Charles McGowan who had no known contact with Chapman for years visits him in Rikers.

Dorothy Lewis a psychiatrist on Chapman's defence team gave a report that stated "he might have been acting in response to a command hallucination on the day of the shooting."

Dr. Emanuel Hammer (to crack a nut) a prosecution psychologist had previously published a book 'Post Hypnotic Suggestion'. 

In early '81 our old friends Dr. Milton Kline (CIA consultant on MK/Ultra) & Dr. Bernard Diamond were given access to Chapman's cell.

 

PM--

Somehow, the RR assassination attempt never grabbed me. 

It is a little spooky that RR's veep was...GeorgeBush1. 

You can bet your bottom dollar that George Bush1 was a fave in CIA quarters. 

But, evidently, GeorgeBush1 was running the CIA and intel out of the veep's office anyway, during the RR days. 

There was some hostility towards RR after this, from which RR just walked away:

"On October 23, 1983, Hezbollah killed 220 Marines, 18 sailors, and three soldiers in a terrorist bombing of the Marine Corps barracks in Beirut, Lebanon." 

That was a truck bombing by Islamists. 

"In the immediate aftermath of the bombing, officials stressed there would be no change in the American military role in Lebanon. Reagan, however, soon contradicted that statement by ordering the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Lebanon and choosing not to retaliate."--Politico.

In the Mideast, not retaliating is like saying you want sausage in your posterior orifice, before being massacred again. 

"Osama bin Laden, the organizer behind the 9/11 attacks on New York and Washington, later declared that Reagan’s failure to respond to the Beirut bombing and other terrorist outbreaks convinced him that America was a weak nation that could be attacked with impunity."--Politico

But the RR assassination attempt was before RR meekly walked away from Lebanon. 

IMHO, can't say the Deep State needed or wanted to get RR out. But who knows? 

 

[Matthew Koch]

5 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

PM--

Somehow, the RR assassination attempt never grabbed me. 

It is a little spooky that RR's veep was...GeorgeBush1. 

Ben give this kino clip a watch ; ) 

My childhood dentist's office is literally on the back side of the Motel. It's Littleton Colorado basically at Prince and Santa Fe cross streets. https://rumble.com/v2fwfyo-the-bush-hinkley-connection.html

[Benjamin Cole]

19 minutes ago, Matthew Koch said:

Ben give this kino clip a watch ; ) 

My childhood dentist's office is literally on the back side of the Motel. It's Littleton Colorado basically at Prince and Santa Fe cross streets. https://rumble.com/v2fwfyo-the-bush-hinkley-connection.html

I attended Eliot Jr. High School in Altadena CA. One day the teacher said the classroom we were in was the one in which she taught Sirhan (a few year earlier), and that he sat in a "chair right there" pointing near me. 

I was relieved she did not point exactly at me and my chair. 

 

[Pete Mellor]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Somehow, the RR assassination attempt never grabbed me. 

Ben, I was referring to John Lennon's killer Mark Chapman.

Anyway, both John Hinckley & Mark Chapman had one thing in common, they both had copies of Salinger's 'Catcher in the Rye'.

My post above was just to point out links to MK/Ultra in Sirhan & Chapman.

Well, now I'm out of here before I get beat on by Michael Griffiths. 🤣

[W. Niederhut]

12 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

You know I think a lot of people have some exposure to this. At first when I was young it was in film in "3 Faces of Eve" and "Psycho". But later on I experienced some incidents of prolonged psychosis among people I knew,. A couple of people died gradually disassociating. Some were drug induced and temporary but  some weren't, including someone I was involved in meditation and lots of Eastern Philosophy New Age stuff who one day developed  delusions of grandeur and went for months claiming supernatural powers and declaring "he was the one." and I became an agent of evil.  I heard he recovered but I haven't seen him in 40 years. 

Yes everything he said about Sirhan seemed like the boiler plate clinical analysis i would suspect to hear of someone of Sirhan's condition. Nothing he said about Sirhan did I find suspect.

  Yeah I checked the entire interview out. I also see a lot of shtick.

 

Kirk,

     Dissociative disorders are significantly different from psychotic illnesses, (and mania) and Dr. Daniel Brown did an excellent job of documenting the absence of psychosis in his stellar forensic evaluation of Sirhan.  He conducted a battery of psychological tests, in addition to his use of hypnosis in the examination.

     All children have a capacity for dissociation, but that capacity may become enhanced by childhood trauma.

     In its mildest forms, dissociation may cause transient psychogenic amnesia for events associated with trauma.

    In more severe forms, people may experience dissociative fugue states-- losing time and finding themselves in places without any conscious recall of how they got there.

    The most severe form of dissociation is Multiple Personality Disorder, in which people who experienced childhood trauma develop distinct alter personalities, which may not be co-conscious.  So, for example, they may engage in prolonged, complex activities in one alter state, for which they later have total amnesia.

     Dissociative alter states and psychogenic amnesia can also be induced by hypnotic suggestion in susceptible individuals, like Sirhan.  Superficially, outside observers may imagine that people with dissociative disorders (including alter personalities) are malingering-- feigning amnesia.  But, in fact, the psychogenic amnesia is quite real.  When Sirhan claimed to have amnesia for the events in the pantry at the Ambassador Hotel, IMO, he was telling the truth.  He was in a hypnotically-induced dissociative state, with a post-hypnotic suggestion to recall nothing.

      People interested in learning more about these phenomena should study texts and case studies by experts like Milton Erickson, Frank Putnam, Martin Orne, et.al.  George Estabrooks 1943 textbook on Hypnosis is also quite a fascinating read.

      As for my question for Mathew Koch about whether the guys who staged RFK's assassination would have opted to let Sirhan fire real bullets at Thane Eugene Cesar, I'm surprised that Mathew was deeply offended by this non-rhetorical question.

      I, certainly, didn't intend to hurt Mathew's tender feelings.

      

     

      

Edited June 3 by W. Niederhut

[Matthew Koch]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I attended Eliot Jr. High School in Altadena CA. One day the teacher said the classroom we were in was the one in which she taught Sirhan (a few year earlier), and that he sat in a "chair right there" pointing near me. 

I was relieved she did not point exactly at me and my chair. 

 

The way he reacted you'd think Sirhan attended Harvard University😳

[Kirk Gallaway]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Kirk,

     Dissociative disorders are significantly different from psychotic illnesses, (and mania) and Dr. Daniel Brown did an excellent job of documenting the absence of psychosis in his stellar forensic evaluation of Sirhan.  He conducted a battery of psychological tests, in addition to his use of hypnosis in the examination.

     All children have a capacity for dissociation, but that capacity may become enhanced by childhood trauma.

     In its mildest forms, dissociation may cause transient psychogenic amnesia for events associated with trauma.

    In more severe forms, people may experience dissociative fugue states-- losing time and finding themselves in places without any conscious recall of how they got there.

    The most severe form of dissociation is Multiple Personality Disorder, in which people who experienced childhood trauma develop distinct alter personalities, which may not be co-conscious.  So, for example, they may engage in prolonged, complex activities in one alter state, for which they later have total amnesia.

     Dissociative alter states and psychogenic amnesia can also be induced by hypnotic suggestion in susceptible individuals, like Sirhan.  Superficially, outside observers may imagine that people with dissociative disorders (including alter personalities) are malingering-- feigning amnesia.  But, in fact, the psychogenic amnesia is quite real.  When Sirhan claimed to have amnesia for the events in the pantry at the Ambassador Hotel, IMO, he was telling the truth.  He was in a hypnotically-induced dissociative state, with a post-hypnotic suggestion to recall nothing.

      People interested in learning more about these phenomena should study texts and case studies by experts like Milton Erickson, Frank Putnam, Martin Orne, et.al.  George Estabrooks 1943 textbook on Hypnosis is also quite a fascinating read.

      As for my question for Mathew Koch about whether the guys who staged RFK's assassination would have opted to let Sirhan fire real bullets at Thane Eugene Cesar, I'm surprised that Mathew was deeply offended by this non-rhetorical question.

      I, certainly, didn't intend to hurt Mathew's tender feelings.

      

     

      

Whew! Ok.

 

True, I've come into contact with a few schizophrenics  but I haven't interacted much with them. 

 

I think I know what you're fishing for William, and if I were to seek help in divvying up my many compartmentalized selves. Even though I might find your compulsive reciting of your bonafides as desperately seeking approval and psychologically, rather insecure and inane. Rather than enlist a packaged, mesmerizing  "Svengali "type like Brown, I would be much more endeared to your "Frazier" persona.

 

heh heh heh

a joke!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3 by Kirk Gallaway

[Johnny Cairns]

This is pure speculation on my part and could be miles off it but I have always felt that Plan A was for Sirhan to shoot and kill RFK. If Sirhan had indeed fired and hit RFK from the front then the lone gunman theory would have been backed up by solid medical evidence. However, because Sirhan failed to hit RFK with his first shot and was pounced upon so quickly afterwards, then plan B, Caesar, came into play and he fired from behind, at very close range killing RFK. There’s no doubt that Caesar was the killer. 

[W. Niederhut]

13 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Whew! Ok.

 

True, I've come into contact with a few schizophrenics  but I haven't interacted much with them. 

 

I think I know what you're fishing for William, and if I were to seek help in divvying up my many compartmentalized selves. Even though I might find your compulsive reciting of your bonafides as desperately seeking approval and psychologically, rather insecure and inane. Rather than enlist a packaged, mesmerizing  "Svengali "type like Brown, I would be much more endeared to your "Frazier" persona.

 

heh heh heh

a joke!

 

Kirk,

     I'm not fishing for anything this week.

     Contrary to your opinion, my main interest in this case is to commend Dr. Daniel Brown's stellar forensic evaluation of Sirhan's dissociative disorder and his history of hypnotic programming.

      It's highly relevant for an accurate understanding of Sirhan and the RFK's assassination.

      Have you and Ben taken the time to read Dr. Brown's forensic evaluation?

      It's impressive.

[Benjamin Cole]

6 hours ago, Johnny Cairns said:

This is pure speculation on my part and could be miles off it but I have always felt that Plan A was for Sirhan to shoot and kill RFK. If Sirhan had indeed fired and hit RFK from the front then the lone gunman theory would have been backed up by solid medical evidence. However, because Sirhan failed to hit RFK with his first shot and was pounced upon so quickly afterwards, then plan B, Caesar, came into play and he fired from behind, at very close range killing RFK. There’s no doubt that Caesar was the killer. 

JD--I think something along the same lines. Sirhan was to start gunning, and Cesar to duck, return fire, and strike RFK1. Cesar could claim accidental shooting. 

But somehow, in the dim chaos, no one even noticed Cesar, so he skated entirely....

[Kevin Balch]

On 6/1/2024 at 7:03 AM, Brian Kelly said:

Israel had nothing to do with either assassination. This is another waste of time scenario, aka it is misdirection. Please with that nonsense. 

How can you say this?

[Benjamin Cole]

5 hours ago, Kevin Balch said:

How can you say this?

KB-

1. It seems unlikely that Israel would want to assassinate not one but both strong, high-profile proponents of Israel.

2. It seems doubly unlikely that Israel had ties into the LAPD to enable and effect a cover-up. 

The whole point of my series on the RFK1A is that we see again a cover-up of a high-profile important assassination, five years later, and in a different jurisdiction.

A lot of the same stuff too---bullet-slugs that had ID marks, marks that disappear, but nevertheless are accepted as evidence. 

IMHO, a Russia, a Cuban government, the Mob, and a tiny country like Israel does not have the resources and staying power to pull that off. 

The US intel community has that kind of resources.